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Will The Circus Scare Off UFAs

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Old
01-28-2012, 10:42 AM
  #26
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The no1 issue why big time UFA won't sign this summer is that the team sucks.

Yes, they won't like all other reasons named and the dreadfull french language (where are my liberty fries !!!) (do I need to say it's sarcasm ?)

But really, great UFAs don't want to sign long term contracts and be bottom feeders all their career.

Start winning and UFAs will come... in exchange of a nice little fee...

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01-28-2012, 10:45 AM
  #27
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Why is the hockey world always whining about French? A lot of Impact players decided to embrace the culture instead and are learning French and even tweeting in French by themselves. Plus, it's super awesome to speak more than one language. Why limit yourself?

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01-28-2012, 10:49 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Evil Ted View Post
Even if you are born in Qubec or French Ontario its career suicide coming to Montreal. Ask Briere he had a chance to sign a similar deal with the Habs opposed to Philly.

Its been happening for years.
Not really, the Philly deal gave more money to Briere and we don't know if Gainey offered NTC and other privileges that he got in Philly... but I still find him stupid to not have accept the Mtl offer (but now happy he didn't).

Over the last years, there was a lot of francophons wanting to sign deals in Mtl, but never got a yes from Gainey... (Laperriere, Belanger, Dumont, Beauchemin, etc.)

I don't think they find this suicidal to play in Mtl (actually, they might think it's a good post-NHL move since they're basically doing job interviews each game for RDS)

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01-28-2012, 10:59 AM
  #29
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We know how touchy the language debate can be, so let's leave it out of this discussion. The last thing we need is another huge argument between both sides.

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01-28-2012, 11:00 AM
  #30
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Some people pay the see the cirus. Habs management needs to tell them they get free tickets.

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01-28-2012, 11:01 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Some people pay the see the cirus. Habs management needs to tell them they get free tickets.
So you're saying the way to bring in UFAs is to tell them they also get free tickets to every game?

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01-28-2012, 11:12 AM
  #32
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So you're saying the way to bring in UFAs is to tell them they also get free tickets to every game?
Yes, and the show continues off the ice too.

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01-28-2012, 11:17 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Yes, and the show continues off the ice too.
I... see what you did... there?

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01-28-2012, 11:25 AM
  #34
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This message board is enough to scare away the UFA's.

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01-28-2012, 11:38 AM
  #35
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I hope so, we shouldn't be pursuing any big name UFA's atm anyways.

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01-28-2012, 11:40 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
On the subject at hand..

Good. This team is not a the place where it should be signing UFAs. UFAs tend to be overpaid. Which is fine if you are missing 1-2 pieces and you have the cap room. We're not 1-2 pieces away. We're 1-2 elite players away, and those are rarely ever available via UFA. In the rare occasions that they are, a fraction of them would be willing to sign here, and a fraction of that fraction would be a good fit in Montreal. So once in a blue moon there's a player that is worth signing.

So really, even if it's true that less UFAs want to sign here, then it's actually probably a first screening that is actually good for us. You aren't going to see me cry over UFAs not wanting to sign here.

Winning and money are two of the top considerations for a large number of UFAs who are worth signing. For UFAs who are winners and not loser mercenaries who bail out at the first opportunity.

If the team ever become good again with strong management, then UFAs will want to come here if we offer the right amount/terms. You can bet on it. But we have to get our **** together first. And until we do, we shouldn't be signing UFAs left and right like we've been doing.
I made my post before reading the read. I'm glad there are some level-headed fans still left.

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01-28-2012, 11:53 AM
  #37
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Both the media and the fans greatly overrate the influence they have on the team. The players are pros and they know how to deal with this stuff. Some self-important journalists/analysts think they actually play a role in influencing the decisions being taken by the team... What a joke. They just don't. Management has so much work to do that they don't have to time to listen to all the wanna-be's out there.

The only factor that has a major impact on players not signing in Montreal is the taxes situation and that's why they have to get more to play here. There's no other reason.

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01-28-2012, 11:57 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
This will always be the case...taxes, media, language issue etc.
Well its true that you will always have to overpay, the degree to which you have to overpay changes. Things will never be perfect, but there is a point where the situation becomes better or worse.

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01-28-2012, 11:57 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by idk View Post
The point is, Gautheir (and Molson) have publically come out and said that the ability to speak French is a key requirement for being the head coach in Montreal. Potential candidates who do not speak french need not apply.

If I were going to work in Montreal this would be a reasonable requirement, as being able to converse with my coworkers/employers/customers would be a reasonable requirement to place upon me. But this does not apply to the head coach of the Canadiens. English is the language of the NHL, the language of its players and its executives. So he must speak English. One could argue that it's also part of his job to interact with the media and there's a certain truth to that. But I counter with that if you hire a good coach you can fill the gap with translators and perhaps more face time with a francophone executive who speaks for the coach. A really good coach would take the time to learn the language - he might not be absolutely fluent in it, but he could probably answer rudimentary questions.

Now, you answer, there are lots of perfectly good francophone coaches out there. And you're right. The Q is full of them. However the most successful coaches in the NHL do not make the jump from the Q. Many of them have experience in the Q, but they usually go through a transition in the AHL. Since 2000 every Jack Adams winner save one has done time as a head coach in the AHL. The one is Jacque Lemaire, who predates a strong AHL.

Clearly if the Canadiens want to hire the best coach they need to hire one with AHL experience. In the AHL there is one head coach which I can trivially confirm is francophone - Clement Jodin in Hamilton - and one who might be - Bruce Cassidy in Providence is from Ottawa and there is a possibility that he is bilingual. This list is not exhaustive - I haven't done in-depth background checks on every coach. These are just the ones I could find some information on. However it stands to reason that there is very little chance of selecting a suitable candidate from the AHL.

There is, of course, the possibility that there are former AHL coaches working elsewhere who are more suitable (read: bilingual) candidates. Of course their candidicy raises other questions - why did they move down from the AHL to work elsewhere? Are they really the best candidate?

To me it's a matter of making a choice. We can hire a guy who is substandard (and by that I mean below the Canadiens standard of coaching - and guys like Bowman, Burns and Blake set that bar pretty high) and teach him how to coach, or we can hire a guy who is at or approaching the standard and teach him how to speak French. Which is easier to learn?
well, the Habs happen to be in Montreal... so... and dont worry, our next coach WILL speak english, GUARANTEED...

sure, he'll learn french... Cammy, Gomez and co all said they'll learn french you know, 3 years later, we're still waiting...

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01-28-2012, 12:01 PM
  #40
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Of course it will. When does it not?

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01-28-2012, 12:01 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
well, the Habs happen to be in Montreal... so... and dont worry, our next coach WILL speak english, GUARANTEED...

sure, he'll learn french... Cammy, Gomez and co all said they'll learn french you know, 3 years later, we're still waiting...
I'd rather our coach focuses on studying game film, and doing the other aspects of his job, than worry about going to language class.

Coaching in the NHL is not a 40 hr per week job... closer to 90-100 hrs per week... you need to be working 7 days a week, and like 12-14 hours per day.

Get the best coach, and who gives a **** what language the interview is in. Hire a ******* translator.... but just WIN baby.

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01-28-2012, 12:04 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
It certainly cant help.

They have bad weather, high taxes, and 2 different language media which are very intense. Most players dont like the fishbowl atmosphere either.

The best thing montreal can do is re-build its winning reputation and try to sell players on that
.
That's the sad part. In the last few seasons, a lot had been made to re-up the reputation of this franchise.

PG found a way to blow it up in just a few months. Now, on top of the usual weather, taxes and fishbowl issues, Habs organization look like an absolute mess without any clear direction. The team as no clear identity, and nobody knows who the GM and coach will be in 3 months.

You just don't sign in this context, even if overpaid.

Unless things get under control fast, with a solid and respected gm-coach duo, getting UFAs will be hard this summer.

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01-28-2012, 12:06 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
I'd rather our coach focuses on studying game film, and doing the other aspects of his job, than worry about going to language class.

Coaching in the NHL is not a 40 hr per week job... closer to 90-100 hrs per week... you need to be working 7 days a week, and like 12-14 hours per day.

Get the best coach, and who gives a **** what language the interview is in. Hire a ******* translator.... but just WIN baby.
Exactly, so we can agree the "he'll learn french" line is just ********, good.

Hope they keep the same as they have now, he sure is doing a great job for Connie

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01-28-2012, 12:09 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by IWalkThroughWalls View Post
That's the sad part. In the last few seasons, a lot had been made to re-up the reputation of this franchise.

PG found a way to blow it up in just a few months. Now, on top of the usual weather, taxes and fishbowl issues, Habs organization look like an absolute mess without any clear direction. The team as no clear identity, and nobody knows who the GM and coach will be in 3 months.

You just don't sign in this context, even if overpaid.

Unless things get under control fast, with a solid and respected gm-coach duo, getting UFAs will be hard this summer.
"an absolute mess"?

This is an exaggeration.

There is a core of solid players in Montreal.

The PP? last in the league?

Now THAT is a mess... at least for now

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01-28-2012, 12:10 PM
  #45
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For me, the top 3 things that potentially scare away UFAs are as followed:

1. Fans. Nobody likes to be playing in their home barn and receive boos from their own crowd because they are having a bad game. Nobody wants a website made of them because they haven't scored a goal in almost a calendar year. Face it, the fans are the biggest reason most don't give Montreal a chance. They turn on people at the drop of a dime.

2. Media. Much like the fans and probably the biggest contribution to why the fans react a certain way, the media in Montreal is terrible. Breaking into a hospital room and flashing a camera in someone's face when they are supposed to be protecting their eye is a disgrace. The way media chastises players, coaches and the team as a whole becomes tiring. And when le topic du jour is about bashing a player and players are being questioned about it after a game, it becomes an annoyance.

3. A very distant third is everything else. Taxes, weather, etc...

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01-28-2012, 12:13 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
For me, the top 3 things that potentially scare away UFAs are as followed:

1. Fans. Nobody likes to be playing in their home barn and receive boos from their own crowd because they are having a bad game. Nobody wants a website made of them because they haven't scored a goal in almost a calendar year. Face it, the fans are the biggest reason most don't give Montreal a chance. They turn on people at the drop of a dime.

2. Media. Much like the fans and probably the biggest contribution to why the fans react a certain way, the media in Montreal is terrible. Breaking into a hospital room and flashing a camera in someone's face when they are supposed to be protecting their eye is a disgrace. The way media chastises players, coaches and the team as a whole becomes tiring. And when le topic du jour is about bashing a player and players are being questioned about it after a game, it becomes an annoyance.

3. A very distant third is everything else. Taxes, weather, etc...
agree, best fans in the world ? yeah, until you have a bad game (or maybe two if you're lucky)...

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01-28-2012, 12:14 PM
  #47
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Exactly, so we can agree the "he'll learn french" line is just ********, good.

Hope they keep the same as they have now, he sure is doing a great job for Connie
Cunneyworth isn't winning, so he has to go.

In fact I felt that Martin was squeezing pts out of a roster that was thin on talent, and I wouldn't have fired him to begin with and said as much. However thats neither here nor there, as he won't be coming back. I wanted to keep him because I felt he was a good coach, but it had nothing to do with being bilingual.

But the next coach should be hired on the criteria of being the best damn coach for the team. Not because he's bilingual. If he's bilingual its a bonus, but what really matters is winning, so I want a coach who is the best man to do that.

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01-28-2012, 12:26 PM
  #48
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Cunneyworth isn't winning, so he has to go.

In fact I felt that Martin was squeezing pts out of a roster that was thin on talent, and I wouldn't have fired him to begin with and said as much. However thats neither here nor there, as he won't be coming back. I wanted to keep him because I felt he was a good coach, but it had nothing to do with being bilingual.

But the next coach should be hired on the criteria of being the best damn coach for the team. Not because he's bilingual. If he's bilingual its a bonus, but what really matters is winning, so I want a coach who is the best man to do that.
and how do you measure that ? I mean, besides the Trotz and Babcock... how do you "measure" best coach ?

winning ? meh, most who have been in the league for long had a bad team at some point, and it usually brings their % to the same level (or close) as the "bad coaches".

a style that fits players better ? meh again, Connie has the Habs play a way that SEEMS to fits the players better... problem is, they lose even more (same roster as his predecessor, minus ONE player)...

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01-28-2012, 12:29 PM
  #49
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They've signed a bunch of free agents in the past few years, despite the circus. For anyone who thinks all this crap off the ice is new, please refer to:

- Booing of Brisebois
- "Darkest Day in History" with imminent arrests and widespread drug use
- Local mafia tie-ins for the Kostitsyns and Hamrlik
- Mike Keane Doesn't Speak French scandal
- Saku Koivu Doesn't Speak French scandal
- Carbo flipping the bird on the golf course

None of this crap prevented Gionta, Cammalleri, Hamrlik, Spacek, Gill, Cole and several others from signing on in the past few years. If there's money on the table and/or free agents think Montreal has a chance to do something, people will sign here.

What Montreal lacks in anonymity, it makes up for in atmosphere. Things only seem to be a circus when the team is losing. Help the team win something and you're a God. That alone makes some people want to play in the mecca of Montreal. Scaredycats not wanted anyway.

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01-28-2012, 12:30 PM
  #50
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How do you evaluate the best coach?

By doing a thorough job search like 29 other teams do, and not limiting your options on day 1 by requiring the coach to be bilingual.

The best coach available might be Patrick Roy, it might be Gerard Gallant (does he speak French?, anyone know?), it might be Randy Carlyle, or it could be someone else, or even someone who gets fired at the end of the season.

But the search shouldn't be limited.

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