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Old
01-27-2012, 03:19 PM
  #51
Jack de la Hoya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
There aren't many players like Evander Kane, but there are less players like Bobby Ryan.

A proven talent > a potential talent
Assuming that that "talent" is equal, then, yes, that's fairly obvious.

At issue here, in essence, is the respective ceiling of both players. Ryan, four years older, is obviously more accomplished; but Kane accomplished more at a younger age. Kane is also significantly cheaper than Ryan, and will likely remain so through his next contract.

I'll accept that Ryan's value is higher--but it isn't a top-10 pick higher. That was the problem with the OP's original statement (in the other thread).

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Old
01-27-2012, 04:13 PM
  #52
Stej
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My favourite part of this thread is how the OP twisted words from another thread and made it far too lopsided in the Jets favour so that all the fly-by posts would show from Anaheim's perspective. I would call the OP ridiculous too and I'm a Jets fan.

Good bit of gamesmenship there.

Edit: I see you changed the OP. It'll be interesting to see if the comments change.

For the record, I would trade Kane for Ryan but I don't think their value is that far off. 100% for sure Ryan is better now, but the ceiling of Kane could be higher. Their career paths have been very different so it's very difficult to compare. In his first 3 full seasons after getting drafted, Ryan played 23 games in the NHL and had 5 goals. It's only been 2.5 full seasons since Kane was drafted and he's already played in 185 games and has 51 goals. Not to mention that Ryan has been part of the best line in hockey for some of his career and the Jets have zero sure-fire top 3 forwards.


Last edited by Stej: 01-27-2012 at 04:30 PM.
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Old
01-27-2012, 05:30 PM
  #53
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Kane for Ryan straight up seems like a pretty fair trade. That being said, I would probably pull the trigger on this despite Kane's potential. I definately see how Duck's fans would be reluctant.

I'm still having trouble believing the Duck's record with the high end offensive talent they have. Therefore I don't understand why Kane is what they need. Goal scoring shouldn't be an issue.

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Old
01-27-2012, 05:36 PM
  #54
Sojourn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Assuming that that "talent" is equal, then, yes, that's fairly obvious.

At issue here, in essence, is the respective ceiling of both players. Ryan, four years older, is obviously more accomplished; but Kane accomplished more at a younger age. Kane is also significantly cheaper than Ryan, and will likely remain so through his next contract.

I'll accept that Ryan's value is higher--but it isn't a top-10 pick higher. That was the problem with the OP's original statement (in the other thread).
I don't think it's a top-10 pick higher either, but I don't think Kane gets you Ryan straight up either. Really, I don't think the deal makes that much sense for Anaheim, and I don't know enough about Winnipeg to say one way or the other.

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Old
01-27-2012, 05:38 PM
  #55
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edit
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Old
01-27-2012, 08:20 PM
  #56
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Jets fan that would do this deal (Kane + 2nd for Ryan) in a heartbeat.

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Old
01-27-2012, 08:37 PM
  #57
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Only way Ducks entertain a trade like this if Burmistrov is coming with Kane... Pass


Kane
Burmistrov

for

Ryan
2nd

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Old
01-27-2012, 08:57 PM
  #58
BigTuna49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
Only way Ducks entertain a trade like this if Burmistrov is coming with Kane... Pass


Kane
Burmistrov

for

Ryan
2nd
You're making it worse..

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Old
01-27-2012, 09:02 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke49 View Post
You're making it worse..
says the guy who thinks Kane has equal value to Ryan

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Old
01-27-2012, 09:03 PM
  #60
KEEROLE Vatanen
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No thanks....Ryan on his way towards his 4th 30 goal season, probably 35 plus. A pick doesn't negate how much better he is than Kane.

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Old
01-27-2012, 09:04 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
says the guy who thinks Kane has equal value to Ryan
He didn't say that at all. Nearly every Jets fan in this thread agrees that Winnipeg would probably have to add, but that the value is close, not equal.

I don't really see the point of this thread anyways. Neither team would want to trade these guys right now.

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Old
01-27-2012, 09:07 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
says the guy who thinks Kane has equal value to Ryan
Your trade is like Enstrom+4th for Fowler+Etem(actually, that's not as bad).

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Old
01-28-2012, 01:34 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stej View Post

For the record, I would trade Kane for Ryan but I don't think their value is that far off. 100% for sure Ryan is better now, but the ceiling of Kane could be higher. Their career paths have been very different so it's very difficult to compare. In his first 3 full seasons after getting drafted, Ryan played 23 games in the NHL and had 5 goals. It's only been 2.5 full seasons since Kane was drafted and he's already played in 185 games and has 51 goals. Not to mention that Ryan has been part of the best line in hockey for some of his career and the Jets have zero sure-fire top 3 forwards.
In other words, Ryan was a Calder Trophy finalist in his 4th season after being drafted. That would be Kane next year. If Kane had the opportunity to play with Getzlaf and Perry next year, I see him as a 30-goal scorer easily with production similar to that of Ryan. A bull who likes to shoot the puck but also has the ability to take it to the net.

I wonder if Ryan could replicate his Anaheim numbers in Winnipeg?

If the equation in the trade is Kane + (for instance a 2nd-rounder) for Ryan, I'd rather have Kane plus the additional asset. One concern right now with Kane though, he has another concussion? He had one last year also?

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Old
01-28-2012, 01:42 AM
  #64
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I think Anaheim should be the one to Add, plus it is possible Kane will be traded out of Winnipeg soon, he will be good, just didn't work out for him in Winnipeg, I think it should be Selanne, Ryan and Holland for Wellwood, Kane, Oduya and Machacek

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Old
01-28-2012, 01:45 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by projexns View Post
In other words, Ryan was a Calder Trophy finalist in his 4th season after being drafted. That would be Kane next year. If Kane had the opportunity to play with Getzlaf and Perry next year, I see him as a 30-goal scorer easily with production similar to that of Ryan. A bull who likes to shoot the puck but also has the ability to take it to the net.

I wonder if Ryan could replicate his Anaheim numbers in Winnipeg?

If the equation in the trade is Kane + (for instance a 2nd-rounder) for Ryan, I'd rather have Kane plus the additional asset. One concern right now with Kane though, he has another concussion? He had one last year also?
Ryan lives off Getzlaf and Perry? Where have I heard that beforte....

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Old
01-28-2012, 01:49 AM
  #66
airforceones25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingJet View Post
I think Anaheim should be the one to Add, plus it is possible Kane will be traded out of Winnipeg soon, he will be good, just didn't work out for him in Winnipeg, I think it should be Selanne, Ryan and Holland for Wellwood, Kane, Oduya and Machacek
LOL....

At least it's a common theme in these parts... Anaheim players are worthless.

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Old
01-28-2012, 01:50 AM
  #67
KEEROLE Vatanen
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LOL at the massive undervaluing of Ryan here. wha Kane does now is irrelevent vs what Ryan did at same age. Ryan had to develop his skating and grow into his body.

Ryan is red hot after a slow start and should hit 35+ goals. Besides Kanes supposed character issues are a turnoff. Ryan is a high character player who is our second most popular player

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Old
01-28-2012, 01:53 AM
  #68
KEEROLE Vatanen
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Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
LOL....

At least it's a common theme in these parts... Anaheim players are worthless.
I wouldnt trade Ryan alone for that package of Kane and useless players we dont need. much less add the legendary Selanne and our top C prospect

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Old
01-28-2012, 01:59 AM
  #69
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Kane for Ryan straight up?

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Old
01-28-2012, 02:10 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingJet View Post
I think Anaheim should be the one to Add, plus it is possible Kane will be traded out of Winnipeg soon, he will be good, just didn't work out for him in Winnipeg, I think it should be Selanne, Ryan and Holland for Wellwood, Kane, Oduya and Machacek
What does the bolded mean?

Other than Kane, I'm also not sure how the selection of players being offered up to Anaheim improves their line-up. What's the thinking here?


Last edited by YWGinYYZ: 01-28-2012 at 04:52 AM.
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Old
01-28-2012, 02:17 AM
  #71
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Rule of thumb - when you're trading for a 24 year old who's put up star type goal scoring for three years, and the player you're trading for projects out to hopefully have similar production, the team who already has the star player never has to add. Ryan isn't a locker room cancer, on a bad contract, asking to be traded, or married to someone who lives in Winnipeg - you don't get a discount. Whether the star now vs in three years is worth enough to Winnipeg to pony up for Ryan is another question, but Anaheim never adds to make this deal work.

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Old
01-28-2012, 10:07 AM
  #72
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This thread is pointless. First off, it's started by a Blackhawks fan who was debating Kane's value in another thread. It's almost unanimously agreed upon that neither the Jets or the Ducks want to trade their player so why are we proposing this?

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Old
01-28-2012, 10:10 AM
  #73
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Screw Ryan, lets go after Toews

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Old
01-28-2012, 11:24 AM
  #74
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Screw Ryan, lets go after Toews
Screw both I want Giroux

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Old
01-28-2012, 11:32 AM
  #75
Jack de la Hoya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingJet View Post
Screw Ryan, lets go after Toews
Burmistrov and a pick gets it done on NHL12, IIRC.

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