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Will The Circus Scare Off UFAs

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Old
01-28-2012, 12:35 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
How do you evaluate the best coach?

By doing a thorough job search like 29 other teams do, and not limiting your options on day 1 by requiring the coach to be bilingual.

The best coach available might be Patrick Roy, it might be Gerard Gallant (does he speak French?, anyone know?), it might be Randy Carlyle, or it could be someone else, or even someone who gets fired at the end of the season.

But the search shouldn't be limited.
So, what you're saying is you dont know (not that I know myself but)...

1 : dont limit yourlsef
2 : ?

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01-28-2012, 12:39 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
So, what you're saying is you dont know (not that I know myself but)...

1 : dont limit yourlsef
2 : ?
Yes, identify 10 - 15 candidates with good records and interview them. Stanley Cups, Mem Cups, solid records (lindy ruff, barry trotz if available), good experience. etc... etc...

At the interviews you will be better able to determine what guy fits with the team, with the organizational philosophy, etc....

Job interviews are important, thats why every organization does them before hiring a coach.

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01-28-2012, 12:43 PM
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Absolutely it will.

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01-28-2012, 12:46 PM
  #54
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Duh?

Language issues, high taxes, media circus . . . hmmmm.

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01-28-2012, 12:52 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Yes, identify 10 - 15 candidates with good records and interview them. Stanley Cups, Mem Cups, solid records (lindy ruff, barry trotz if available), good experience. etc... etc...

At the interviews you will be better able to determine what guy fits with the team, with the organizational philosophy, etc....

Job interviews are important, thats why every organization does them before hiring a coach.
you're still not awnsering the question.... since you seems to think "knowing french" is one criteria too many (so to speak), what are the other criterias ?

Stanley cup : Trotz, Ruff dont have a ring despite you naming them as some of the best (and I think highly of them too)

solid records : well, a VERY few among the actual NHL coaches have a great record, I'd say 90% are at 0.550 or less...

memorial cup : Yeah but what about those american or europeans coaches, should we limit ourselves geographically too ? you know...

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01-28-2012, 01:04 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
you're still not awnsering the question.... since you seems to think "knowing french" is one criteria too many (so to speak), what are the other criterias ?

Stanley cup : Trotz, Ruff dont have a ring despite you naming them as some of the best (and I think highly of them too)
Meeting the criteria gets you an interview.... ie Carlyle's cup gets him an interview. Trotz and Ruff's resumes of work without the cup make them candidates.

Quote:
solid records : well, a VERY few among the actual NHL coaches have a great record, I'd say 90% are at 0.550 or less...
Record is relative... how good was their team on paper and how did it perform on the ice. Did their predecessor/successor succeed or fail. Did they make their team better?

Quote:
memorial cup : Yeah but what about those american or europeans coaches, should we limit ourselves geographically too ? you know...
Winning at a high level of hockey, no matter where they are coaching matters. Yes, add in top NCAA coaches, or top Euro coaches.

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01-28-2012, 01:08 PM
  #57
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Money always talks, unfortunately Montreal will always have to overpay to bring in the FA's.

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01-28-2012, 01:15 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
well, the Habs happen to be in Montreal... so... and dont worry, our next coach WILL speak english, GUARANTEED...
I think missed the point. I was saying in the general case in Montreal (and the rest of Quebec for that matter) it's okay to list ability to speak french as a prerequisite because you can't do your job without it. The head coach of the Canadiens, on the other hand, has no such need - outside of interacting with french-only sections of the media (and from what I can tell there are very few french-only speakers following the Canadiens - most speak english quite well) there is absolutely no requirement for the head coach of the Canadiens to speak french. It in no way will improve his job performance.

It's kind of like insisting that the engineer building your bridge also be a trained and certified welder. There might be a small set of circumstances where having a welder-engineer might be useful, but in most cases it just shrinks the talent pool you can recruit from.

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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
sure, he'll learn french... Cammy, Gomez and co all said they'll learn french you know, 3 years later, we're still waiting...
You'll notice I said an exceptional coach (well, I think I said very good - by that I meant one that would be really good for the team and the city) would learn it. You could argue that Cammy and Gomez weren't/aren't good for the team. You could argue that we'd much prefer to have guys like Hector Blake, Larry Robinson and Bob Gainey than those lumps.

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01-28-2012, 01:18 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Meeting the criteria gets you an interview.... ie Carlyle's cup gets him an interview. Trotz and Ruff's resumes of work without the cup make them candidates.



Record is relative... how good was their team on paper and how did it perform on the ice. Did their predecessor/successor succeed or fail. Did they make their team better?



Winning at a high level of hockey, no matter where they are coaching matters. Yes, add in top NCAA coaches, or top Euro coaches.
guys like CJ and AV get interviews with their actual teams... despite not having better records than a LOT of other coaches...

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01-28-2012, 01:26 PM
  #60
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I think missed the point. I was saying in the general case in Montreal (and the rest of Quebec for that matter) it's okay to list ability to speak french as a prerequisite because you can't do your job without it. The head coach of the Canadiens, on the other hand, has no such need - outside of interacting with french-only sections of the media (and from what I can tell there are very few french-only speakers following the Canadiens - most speak english quite well) there is absolutely no requirement for the head coach of the Canadiens to speak french. It in no way will improve his job performance.

It's kind of like insisting that the engineer building your bridge also be a trained and certified welder. There might be a small set of circumstances where having a welder-engineer might be useful, but in most cases it just shrinks the talent pool you can recruit from.



You'll notice I said an exceptional coach (well, I think I said very good - by that I meant one that would be really good for the team and the city) would learn it. You could argue that Cammy and Gomez weren't/aren't good for the team. You could argue that we'd much prefer to have guys like Hector Blake, Larry Robinson and Bob Gainey than those lumps.
you'd be surprised. I for one know a ******** of french speaking (only) fans. And despite what a lot seems to think, these fans are not interested one bit in watching/hearing/reading about the Habs in english.

well, your engineer wont have to give interviews pretty much everydays... so your example makes no sense.

Some do, a guy like Gainey did learn french... but it's VERY far from the norm...

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01-28-2012, 01:36 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
guys like CJ and AV get interviews with their actual teams... despite not having better records than a LOT of other coaches...
Good god, what don't you understand?

No one is saying that a French coach can't be good. Why do you keep bringing up Julien and Vigneault? They have NOTHING to do with the topic at hand.

Gauthier has publicly come out and said that the next coach WILL be bilingual. By making bilingualism an priority, you're LIMITING your options, and therefore, may not get the best candidate for the job. This is not an opinion, this is a FACT. It's simple logic.

Since my Babcock point pretty much flew over your head, I'll go with a more realistic situation. If the Sabres keep up their free fall, there's a chance that after 10+ years Lindy Ruff will be let go. He's proven that he is a very good coach. Unfortunately, he won't even get a call from Habs management this summer since he doesn't speak French, something that is completely irrelevant to his ability to coach an NHL team.

By PUBLICLY stating that the next coach will be bilingual, he's saying that the teams first priority is being French. Winning is second. How do you think that will that affect a UFAs decision to come here.

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01-28-2012, 01:51 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by WeeBey View Post
Good god, what don't you understand?

No one is saying that a French coach can't be good. Why do you keep bringing up Julien and Vigneault? They have NOTHING to do with the topic at hand.

Gauthier has publicly come out and said that the next coach WILL be bilingual. By making bilingualism an priority, you're LIMITING your options, and therefore, may not get the best candidate for the job. This is not an opinion, this is a FACT. It's simple logic.

Since my Babcock point pretty much flew over your head, I'll go with a more realistic situation. If the Sabres keep up their free fall, there's a chance that after 10+ years Lindy Ruff will be let go. He's proven that he is a very good coach. Unfortunately, he won't even get a call from Habs management this summer since he doesn't speak French, something that is completely irrelevant to his ability to coach an NHL team.

By PUBLICLY stating that the next coach will be bilingual, he's saying that the teams first priority is being French. Winning is second. How do you think that will that affect a UFAs decision to come here.
Ruff ? Really, what is this obsession with Lindy Ruff, the guy is so ****ing overrated.

And PG never said the first priority is a french coach (espacially that there's no french coach in this league). He said he must be bilangual...

Since when... oh boy I'm tired of this idiotic debate and pissing contest. People just refuse to accept the other side arguments and think they're stupid while being just as stupid...

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01-28-2012, 01:52 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Habbadasher View Post
Duh?

Language issues, high taxes, media circus . . . hmmmm.
This is the MOST overated lie. NOBODY ever demanded any player to learn and speak at least a bit of French. Unless he is the Captain or the head coach..


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01-28-2012, 01:53 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by WeeBey View Post
Good god, what don't you understand?

No one is saying that a French coach can't be good. Why do you keep bringing up Julien and Vigneault? They have NOTHING to do with the topic at hand.

Gauthier has publicly come out and said that the next coach WILL be bilingual. By making bilingualism an priority, you're LIMITING your options, and therefore, may not get the best candidate for the job. This is not an opinion, this is a FACT. It's simple logic.

Since my Babcock point pretty much flew over your head, I'll go with a more realistic situation. If the Sabres keep up their free fall, there's a chance that after 10+ years Lindy Ruff will be let go. He's proven that he is a very good coach. Unfortunately, he won't even get a call from Habs management this summer since he doesn't speak French, something that is completely irrelevant to his ability to coach an NHL team.

By PUBLICLY stating that the next coach will be bilingual, he's saying that the teams first priority is being French. Winning is second. How do you think that will that affect a UFAs decision to come here.
I don't see your point !

What's wrong with having a BILINGUAL coach ?

It certainly didn't hurt the Bruins and Canucks, the two SC finalists last Spring.


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01-28-2012, 01:56 PM
  #65
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Will The Circus Scare Off UFAs
No doubt.

But then, fans will close a blind eye and blame language, taxes, weather, everything but the media and themselves for it... as usual.

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01-28-2012, 02:07 PM
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I don't see your point !

What's wrong with having a BILINGUAL coach ?

It certainly didn't hurt the Bruins and Canucks, the two SC finalists last Spring.
Are you people really that friggin dense? It's not that the coach CANT be bilingual, it's that if he MUST be bilingual you dismiss all non-bilingual candidates, which means you're not picking based on the BEST coach available, you're picking on the best FRENCH coach available.

Can it be explained any more clearly?

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01-28-2012, 02:15 PM
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Are you people really that friggin dense? It's not that the coach CANT be bilingual, it's that if he MUST be bilingual you dismiss all non-bilingual candidates, which means you're not picking based on the BEST coach available, you're picking on the best FRENCH coach available.

Can it be explained any more clearly?
Cunneyworth could easily spend a month in Saguenay and learn basic French and people would not bother anymore . Half of the posters on this board have English as their second language. It is not that hard to learn a scond language. Isn't it ?

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01-28-2012, 02:17 PM
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Um guys. I know that many of the issues that have occured this past year have happened before, many of us have seen them . Despite all of that I think most players have enjoyed playing in Montreal because most things, besides taxes, have pluses and minuses. For example, the insane microscope players are put under is also because of how deeply the fans love hockey, and I cant imagine a player getting a bigger rush anywhere in the NHL, than skating onto home rink in a Habs jersey. I guess my point is this year pretty much ALL of the se issues have popped up at once and when you throw in a losing season it must appear to the world that the team is in chaos and maybe not a fun place to play ( which is also a factor in deciding where to sign ). I know that this will all pass and calm will once again come, but maybe not until next year. As such, I wondered if we might have problems this year attracting UFAs and if that is the case, maybe in the case of a couple of our UFAs, Moen and AK, whether we should just try to resign the guys since we would be trying to replace them with similar type players in the off-season. AK actually appears to really want to stay here ( I know, who knows how badly in terms of money), so should we at least try signing them, or should we just go after the returns by trading them and worry about replacing them later ? Personally, Id rather try signing them both and would only move them if I couldnt sign them in the next 2 weeks. I mean, why try to get a Moen like player when you might acutally be able to have Moen. As for AK, who would we get thats better and when your trying to sign a UFA your competing with other teams. Ruutu might be an upgrade on AK but hell be in huge demand and command more as an example.

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01-28-2012, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
you're still not awnsering the question.... since you seems to think "knowing french" is one criteria too many (so to speak), what are the other criterias ?

Stanley cup : Trotz, Ruff dont have a ring despite you naming them as some of the best (and I think highly of them too)

solid records : well, a VERY few among the actual NHL coaches have a great record, I'd say 90% are at 0.550 or less...

memorial cup : Yeah but what about those american or europeans coaches, should we limit ourselves geographically too ? you know...
There is absolutely no way to defend "Speaking French" as a relevant criteria for coaching a hockey team.

And yes, the whole 'French' circus here in Montreal is the team's Achilles heel.

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01-28-2012, 02:37 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by WeeBey View Post
Good god, what don't you understand?

No one is saying that a French coach can't be good. Why do you keep bringing up Julien and Vigneault? They have NOTHING to do with the topic at hand.

Gauthier has publicly come out and said that the next coach WILL be bilingual. By making bilingualism an priority, you're LIMITING your options, and therefore, may not get the best candidate for the job. This is not an opinion, this is a FACT. It's simple logic.

Since my Babcock point pretty much flew over your head, I'll go with a more realistic situation. If the Sabres keep up their free fall, there's a chance that after 10+ years Lindy Ruff will be let go. He's proven that he is a very good coach. Unfortunately, he won't even get a call from Habs management this summer since he doesn't speak French, something that is completely irrelevant to his ability to coach an NHL team.

By PUBLICLY stating that the next coach will be bilingual, he's saying that the teams first priority is being French. Winning is second. How do you think that will that affect a UFAs decision to come here.
only in your mind.

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01-28-2012, 02:39 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by The Kremelin Wall View Post
Are you people really that friggin dense? It's not that the coach CANT be bilingual, it's that if he MUST be bilingual you dismiss all non-bilingual candidates, which means you're not picking based on the BEST coach available, you're picking on the best FRENCH coach available.

Can it be explained any more clearly?
Yeah, and because of that, players will prefer to go elsewhere... everything else is irrelevant to them... even a chance at winning or making a lot more $...

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01-28-2012, 03:00 PM
  #72
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So...
Everybody's talking about the media, the language, the coach, doom and gloom etc,
But what about the Wisnieski's, the Streit, Sourays Huet's etc that all made BIG money because of Mtl ? do anyone of you really think those guys would have the.paycheck they're getting today if it wasn't for the Habs ? Of course they did their part but I think we have to turn the Mtl spotlight in our advantage for UFA s that wanna do good and be recognized for it.
Everybody knows Mtl will always be under the spotlight and taxes like death will always be a certain thing so let's work that under our advantage instead than against


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01-28-2012, 03:03 PM
  #73
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There is absolutely no way to defend "Speaking French" as a relevant criteria for coaching a hockey team.

And yes, the whole 'French' circus here in Montreal is the team's Achilles heel.
Les Canadiens de Montréal are NOT JUST a "hockey team"...

Can you understand that ?

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01-28-2012, 03:04 PM
  #74
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I think what people miss is that perception is reality.

The perception is that this whole french coach fiasco has made a circus out of the season in Montreal. That is the PERCEPTION around the NHL.

Whether its true or not, whether the players will be forced to learn french or not, whether it was 200 or 20,000 protesters, it doesn't matter... none of the facts matter... the only thing that matters is that its become a black mark on the organization, and that will hurt the attraction of some UFAs and force us to offer them more.

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01-28-2012, 03:05 PM
  #75
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Les Canadiens de Montréal are NOT JUST a "hockey team"...

Can you understand that ?
Les Canadiens de Montreal are a cultural icon for one reason and one reason only.

THEY WON STANLEY CUPS

If they don't strive to do so again, they will become irrelevant.

The glorious history wouldn't have happened if they were the New York Rangers with 1 cup in the last 80 years.

And as long as you limit the talent pool going forward.... as long as you say the next Dick Irvin, or Toe Blake can't coach the team because he's an anglophone. You might as well forget about continuing the glorious history and tradition.

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