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Thomas Hickey, a bust?

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Old
01-27-2012, 10:50 PM
  #101
FolignoQuantumLeap
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Originally Posted by darko View Post
He's what, 22 years old. Too early to call him a bust.
This time last yea Cody Hodgson and Kyle Turris were considered busts, so yeah. You have a point there.

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01-28-2012, 12:32 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by HTFN View Post
Alzner is already doing what Scuderi does, but better (admittedly less tough).
defensively, Scuderi is the better defenseman. This is ludicrous that this is even a debate.

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01-28-2012, 12:35 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Lay down the pipe. McDonagh is playing 25 mins per game on the best defensive team in the league. Mitchell and Scuderi are good, but I doubt they'd crack the Rangers top 4, let alone being noted as being better than McDonagh.
defensively, mitchell and scuderi are CLEARLY superior to any of the other d you mentioned.

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01-28-2012, 12:39 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Buskas View Post
defensively, mitchell and scuderi are CLEARLY superior to any of the other d you mentioned.

No they aren't.... do you even know who those defenseman are?
Alzner is a #1 Dman already, Shattenkirk is a top pairing dman, Mcdonagh is a top 4 young dman looking much better than his age.

Get off your Homer chair, those 3 are far superior to Mitchell and Scuderi.

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Old
01-28-2012, 03:57 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post


You're severely underrated the Penguins depth if you don't think Tangradi has much to beat out in Pittsburgh. He's 16th on the forward depth chart, essentially, and is only on the roster because of injuries to Crosby, Staal, and Asham.

That's another story for another time. I'm not sure why Tangradi's name was brought up considering the kid is far from NHL ready at this point, he's just getting limited ice time because of all the injuries the Penguins have had the past couple years. When he's playing he's getting fourth line duties, which is essentially wasting him.
I certainly agree with your post I just find it hilarious that for years fans of the Penguins were complaining about there total lackluster forward depth behind the big 3 centermen.

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Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
No they aren't.... do you even know who those defenseman are?
Alzner is a #1 Dman already, Shattenkirk is a top pairing dman, Mcdonagh is a top 4 young dman looking much better than his age.

Get off your Homer chair, those 3 are far superior to Mitchell and Scuderi.
Yeah Alzner is not a #1 Dman.. He might currently be so on the Caps but he wouldnt be on most teams. And I'm a caps fan.

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01-28-2012, 09:41 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Rod Buskas View Post
defensively, mitchell and scuderi are CLEARLY superior to any of the other d you mentioned.

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01-28-2012, 09:58 AM
  #107
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Thomas Hickey, a bust?
Yes.

Not because he's still in the AHL at 22.. But because he hasn't shown much of anything at any level since being drafted.

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01-28-2012, 01:43 PM
  #108
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I cringe at the suggestion that a 22 year-old is a bust.

And for the people who bring up Daigle, do you even remember seeing him play? Or are you going off the general perception? Daigle was a poor pick at 1st overall, but he was still an effective NHLer.

A name to bring up is Chris Phillips. Hickey could still become a Phillips at the NHL level. But at the same time, getting a Chris Phillips with a top 5 pick is still a bad pick

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01-28-2012, 04:39 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Bjindaho View Post
A name to bring up is Chris Phillips. Hickey could still become a Phillips at the NHL level. But at the same time, getting a Chris Phillips with a top 5 pick is still a bad pick

Depends on the draft year IMO. Overall, Phillips as a top 5 is a bit of a let down (though a 1,000+ game player is hard to call a disappointment) but in 1996 it was a brutal year. Consider this for a second, of the 26 players picked in the first round of the 1996 draft, Phillips ranks seventh in career points. A guy who has never reached 30 points in a season in his career is 7th. He is just 10 points behind Marty Reasoner for 6th.

When a purely defensive defenseman ranks 7th in scoring it shows how bad that draft year was. 11 of the 26 players taking never played 100 career NHL games. I don't count anyone outside the first round since they wouldn't have been higher than Phillips on anyone draft rankings anyways and really aren't comparible in terms of where a guy was drafted.

So in 1996, Phillips wasn't much of a disappointment in terms of draft placement and of anyone selected in the top 12 picks, I'd say Phillips was the best player in the end.

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01-28-2012, 04:42 PM
  #110
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Alzner, Shattenkirk, and Mcdonagh havent proven they can shut down the best players in the league come playoff time while Scuderi and Mitchell have.

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01-28-2012, 04:54 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
Yes.

Not because he's still in the AHL at 22.. But because he hasn't shown much of anything at any level since being drafted.
And you've watched him play how many AHL games?

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01-28-2012, 05:02 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by CapsGreat08AO View Post
Drafting a bottom pairing D-man fourth overall? Yeah that's a huge bust. The Kings drafting doesn't impress me much
So Kopitar, Doughty, Quick, Bernier, Voynov, Brown, Clifford, Simmonds & Loktionov don't impress you? Pretty impressive to me seeing as most of them are pretty much mid 1st to 3rd round picks, with one being a 5th round pick. The only top 10 pick out of those is Doughty.

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01-28-2012, 05:40 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Scottkmlps View Post
So Kopitar, Doughty, Quick, Bernier, Voynov, Brown, Clifford, Simmonds & Loktionov don't impress you? Pretty impressive to me seeing as most of them are pretty much mid 1st to 3rd round picks, with one being a 5th round pick. The only top 10 pick out of those is Doughty.
Deslauries, Vey, and Kozun could surprise as well.

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Old
01-28-2012, 05:45 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
This time last yea Cody Hodgson and Kyle Turris were considered busts, so yeah. You have a point there.
Hodgson was the draft after Hickey and Turris was the same draft.

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01-28-2012, 05:46 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
Alzner, Shattenkirk, and Mcdonagh havent proven they can shut down the best players in the league come playoff time while Scuderi and Mitchell have.
You've clearly already convinced yourself of this...rather interesting...notion which I guess is something to be proud of.

Alzner, Shattenkirk and McDonagh are all far ahead of Hickey, that's for sure.

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01-28-2012, 06:51 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by smon View Post
You've clearly already convinced yourself of this...rather interesting...notion which I guess is something to be proud of.

Alzner, Shattenkirk and McDonagh are all far ahead of Hickey, that's for sure.
Uh huh. Lombardi and staff knew Alzner was more physically ready to be a pro but felt Hickey had more LONG TERM potential. Prospects, especially defenseman are a marathon, not a sprint. We will see in a few years.

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01-28-2012, 08:17 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Scottkmlps View Post
And you've watched him play how many AHL games?
Five, you?

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Old
01-29-2012, 12:08 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by vippe View Post
I certainly agree with your post I just find it hilarious that for years fans of the Penguins were complaining about there total lackluster forward depth behind the big 3 centermen.

Yeah Alzner is not a #1 Dman.. He might currently be so on the Caps but he wouldnt be on most teams. And I'm a caps fan.
Alzner is on the Caps #1 shutdown line. He is on the D line that spends the most time on the ice against opposing teams' #1 forward lines.

Code:
PLAYER	       GP	G	A	PTS	+/-	PIM	ATOI

Karl Alzner, D	48	1	11	12	+11	23	20:42
Slava Voynov, D	31	4	7	11	+4	6	18:12
Drew Doughty, D	45	3	19	22	+3	48	24:52
Willie Mitchell, D	44	3	8	11	+3	26	21:33
Rob Scuderi, D	50	1	5	6	+0	14	20:04
John Erskine	26	0	2	2	+2	51	12:24
John Carlson	48	5	18	23	+0	18	23:02
Dennis Wideman	48	9	25	34	+0	16	24:29
Dmitry Orlov	30	1	7	8	-1	4	16:07
Roman Hamrlik	44	1	6	7	-1	24	19:42
Alzner is +11. No other Caps defenseman is better than +2. No other Caps defenseman spends more time on the PK than Alzner.

Alzner's ES, PP, and PK times are very similar to Scuderi's. Alzner's line has allowed 18 PP goals while Scuderi's line has allowed 14. Alzner has accomplished similar (and better overall) stats on team with less defensively skilled forwards.

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01-29-2012, 12:29 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
Five, you?
None, but that wasn't the question.
So let's get this right. You're basing on what you saw in 5 games out of 150 games he's played in the AHL? So you've missed the other 145 games, and you've come to the conclusion that he is a bust because the 5 games out of 150 he's played in the AHL he hasn't impressed you?


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01-29-2012, 12:36 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Alybaba View Post
Maybe stay up late and watch a few Kings games. Yes Mitchell and Scuderi are better than them defensively.

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01-29-2012, 01:00 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Scottkmlps View Post
None, but that wasn't the question.
So let's get this right. You're basing on what you saw in 5 games out of 150 games he's played in the AHL? So you've missed the other 145 games, and you've come to the conclusion that he is a bust because the 5 games out of 150 he's played in the AHL he hasn't impressed you?
So you're mad he has an opinion based on the games he's seen?

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01-29-2012, 01:25 AM
  #122
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I haven't seen Hickey. But Alzner is a terrific Dman. He ought to be a rock solid #2 for years. Not much O but exceptional D and great character.

But, for all that, the Caps still suck so don't feel bad LA.

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01-29-2012, 01:29 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
I find the last bit hard to believe. Voynov was on the top pairing last year and Hickey wasn't.

Hickey’s appointment to the all-star game, which comes from the coaches and players around the league, speaks to the level of respect the opposition has for him. It’s easy to spot a defenseman putting up big numbers offensively, and something else to recognize a skilled player in his own end of the ice.


“He’s learned to distribute the puck and support the play,” said Monarchs head coach Mark Morris. “And when he’s playing that way he’s very effective at helping us generate offense and is also more reliable defensively.”

DL knew Hickey wasn't as good as Alzner at the time and said he was a 3 or 4 year project but felt his ceiling was too high to pass up.
well i have been following the AHL game for quite some time now and the selections into the AHL allstar game usually are political, well maybe that is the wrong word to use, but some of the players you see are the game are usually teams high draft picks whether they deserve to be there or not.
Morris isnt going to throw his own player under the bus publicly. he hasnt been very good this year. I still maintain hes taken a step back this year from what I have seen. I can get you some more people who go to the Monarch games on a regular basis on the guy and I can just about gaurantee they will back me up. You know who some of em are.
I dont think hes a bust. too early to tell but he defintely has a way to go to be a regular NHL defenseman. Was he taken to high? probably. but hes not ready for the NHL.

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Originally Posted by Asheru View Post
Mindreading plus a conspiracy theory. Nice.
You cant tell by a players body language that he didnt want to compete and do his job? I am only going by what I saw that night. He looked like a lost puppy dog that night that acted like he didnt want to compete. It has nothing to do with "mindreading"
As far as my comments about the AHL AS game selection process I already explained myself. This isnt about Hickey going to the game this year. This has been going on for awhile now and before you ask I have been watching AHL hockey for over a dozen years. I have seen this before.

It just boggles my mind that some people get all riled up when they get negative first hand accounts of prospects on their team. Some want to believe the media driven comments by the local media here(Manchester Union Leader for example) who toe the company line and let you hear what you want to hear or read.
I have been a fan of the Monarchs since day 1. I want to see them do well and have no problem giving my opinion of any player. good or bad. granted this is a bit of a down year for me in attending the games due to my work schedule but I have seen quite bit of some of the kids that have gone thu the LA pipeline.

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Old
01-29-2012, 04:14 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Bjindaho View Post
A name to bring up is Chris Phillips. Hickey could still become a Phillips at the NHL level. But at the same time, getting a Chris Phillips with a top 5 pick is still a bad pick
Thats funny. That's what I was thinking (hoping) too....Chris Phillips.

I do disagree with your last comment...its a bit short-sided. Yeah of course you hope for better with a top 5 pick but lets be honest. The 1997 draft wasnt that great and IF Hickey turns out to be a Chris Phillips type of player (long and solid career)...I take it. Still a big if though...


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Old
01-29-2012, 12:10 PM
  #125
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I'm glad Edmonton got Teubert out of LA and not Hickey.

I hope all the best for Hickey in the future.

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