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Old
01-26-2012, 02:02 AM
  #76
number72
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The team need Grabbo or a player like him.

To make it deep in the playoffs - a team needs a strong 2 way center - toews, kesler, getzlaf, bergeron.

Connolly, bozak - won't cut it.

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01-26-2012, 02:03 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by number72 View Post
The team need Grabbo or a player like him.

To make it deep in the playoffs - a team needs a strong 2 way center - toews, kesler, getzlaf, bergeron.

Connolly, bozak - won't cut it.
You made three points that were obvious, and have been said repeatedly since October

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01-26-2012, 04:33 AM
  #78
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I'm not sure I get the point of your post. My point still stands - Burke has nothing to gain by going public with anything that has been discussed with Grabovski's camp.

He's a player's GM, and will respect their right to privacy by not broadcasting anything discussed in private negotiations with the open public
Chances are, had the phrase "hometown discount" been mentioned during the extension talk(s) that have taken place already, Grabo would have been re-signed by now. The fact that he isn't seems to indicate that it never came up in the discussion.

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01-26-2012, 04:56 AM
  #79
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Burke said they have windows for signing players. Did not work one out with Grabo in his window so he is going to resume negotiations in the off-season.

Aka that doesnt mean he is gone.

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01-26-2012, 06:59 AM
  #80
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This is why we should have only signed Connolly to one year.

If Connolly is worth $4.75M then I dread to think what Grabovski might fetch.But if we had only signed Connolly to one year we could have given that money to Grabo.In essence we traded Connolly for Grabo ,if we don't resign him.Not a great move.I will bet you not one GM in the nhl would value Connolly at $4.5 M right now.How many GM's would take Grabo for that,at least a half dozen,including some in our own division...ouch!Irony,one could be Buffalo.

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01-26-2012, 07:29 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Eamonn View Post
Burke said they have windows for signing players. Did not work one out with Grabo in his window so he is going to resume negotiations in the off-season.

Aka that doesnt mean he is gone.
Yes, it doesn't mean he's gone but Grabovski's status has certainly changed. Grabovski's status as a future asset for the Leafs is in serious doubt now. Since Burke has to see that this team isn't likely to become a serious candidate to win the Cup this season, Burke has to practice good asset management and not risk losing Grabovski for nothing on July 1st. This organization just isn't deep enough to absorb that type of loss without seriously regressing.

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01-26-2012, 07:37 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by StarBurns View Post
Yes, it doesn't mean he's gone but Grabovski's status has certainly changed. Grabovski's status as a future asset for the Leafs is in serious doubt now. Since Burke has to see that this team isn't likely to become a serious candidate to win the Cup this season, Burke has to practice good asset management and not risk losing Grabovski for nothing on July 1st. This organization just isn't deep enough to absorb that type of loss without seriously regressing.
LOL yes if we lose Mikhail Grabovski the organization will never recover. I love Grabo but man that statement is hilarious.

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01-26-2012, 07:59 AM
  #83
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Liles is unreal

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01-26-2012, 10:15 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
Chances are, had the phrase "hometown discount" been mentioned during the extension talk(s) that have taken place already, Grabo would have been re-signed by now. The fact that he isn't seems to indicate that it never came up in the discussion.
lol are you for real?

it's not that simple man, it's a give and take process.

just because a deal isn't reached yet, doesn't mean grabo wasn't/ isn't willing to take a discount. for one, the leafs might want to see what he does this year before committing more money (while still getting a discount). he has come on in jan, his numbers weren't that strong the early months


let's say his market value is 4.8 mil
in dec, grabo is having an OK season:
burke: do you want to take 4.2 to stay here
grabo: no, i'm worth more
burke: ok, let's not talk about this now. let the season play out, see where we are at in june and we'll talk.
grabok

..time goes on, he becomes a clutch performer in the stretch run, his value raises in burke's eyes

in june:
burke: do you want to take 4.6 average
grabo: ok

we still have june to negotiate. the ONLY way i see him not resigned if burke has a legit #1 C that he wants to commit salary to

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01-26-2012, 02:05 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by TrueBlue86 View Post
lol are you for real?

it's not that simple man, it's a give and take process.

just because a deal isn't reached yet, doesn't mean grabo wasn't/ isn't willing to take a discount. for one, the leafs might want to see what he does this year before committing more money (while still getting a discount). he has come on in jan, his numbers weren't that strong the early months

let's say his market value is 4.8 mil
in dec, grabo is having an OK season:
burke: do you want to take 4.2 to stay here
grabo: no, i'm worth more
burke: ok, let's not talk about this now. let the season play out, see where we are at in june and we'll talk.
grabok

..time goes on, he becomes a clutch performer in the stretch run, his value raises in burke's eyes

in june:
burke: do you want to take 4.6 average
grabo: ok

we still have june to negotiate. the ONLY way i see him not resigned if burke has a legit #1 C that he wants to commit salary to
Over his 4 seasons with the Leafs, he was on pace for 48 points in his first two, and 60 points in the last two. Do you think that a month or two's performance will significantly impact his value? I don't believe Burke is as much of a "what have you done lately" guy as some of our posters are.

Are you even expecting him to break out at 28 and go on a PPG+ tear post-ASG putting him at 65 points?

As for the bolded part, you seem to have a funny interpretation of a "hometown discount".

It's fairly obvious that it's in Burke (and in the team's) best interest to know these type of things before TDL, or they risk losing valuable assets for nothing. Not to mention that Burke would probably like to know who he can realistically keep for next season, and who he should be looking to replace (via TDL deals for instance). It's also obvious, that it's in the player's / agent's best interest to extend the contract talks to free agency to gain more leverage.

Oh, but Schenn will surely take a hometown discount. He loves the city and the team so much, and I heard him say he wants to stay here.

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Old
01-26-2012, 04:15 PM
  #86
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Here's the video of Burke last night.


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01-26-2012, 04:26 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
Over his 4 seasons with the Leafs, he was on pace for 48 points in his first two, and 60 points in the last two. Do you think that a month or two's performance will significantly impact his value? I don't believe Burke is as much of a "what have you done lately" guy as some of our posters are.

Are you even expecting him to break out at 28 and go on a PPG+ tear post-ASG putting him at 65 points?
after his lackluster 2010 season, he had an amazing season last year (compared to what was expected)

i don't track his stats day to day man but from memory his numbers have picked up big time this month!
i think it's a big reason why everyone got in this 'oh **** we gotta resign grabo' fuss recently, both the fans and media
i'm sure wilson is conveying that message to burke too..

i'm just saying, feb, march, april and hopefully playoffs will impact burke's opinion BIG TIME whether or not to commit to this guy, given his limited track record of success, not to mention that it may also affect grabo if he wants to stay here or not

people just need to chill a bit.
very unlikely we trade him straight up this year.
burke will get it done

we have so much dead salary on this team, i can't imagine half a mil being a deciding factor when it comes to a heart and soul guy on this team

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01-26-2012, 04:51 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by TrueBlue86 View Post
after his lackluster 2010 season, he had an amazing season last year (compared to what was expected)

i don't track his stats day to day man but from memory his numbers have picked up big time this month!
i think it's a big reason why everyone got in this 'oh **** we gotta resign grabo' fuss recently, both the fans and media
i'm sure wilson is conveying that message to burke too..

i'm just saying, feb, march, april and hopefully playoffs will impact burke's opinion BIG TIME whether or not to commit to this guy, given his limited track record of success, not to mention that it may also affect grabo if he wants to stay here or not

people just need to chill a bit.
very unlikely we trade him straight up this year.
burke will get it done

we have so much dead salary on this team, i can't imagine half a mil being a deciding factor when it comes to a heart and soul guy on this team
How was it "lackluster"? He was on pace for 50+ points with a broken hand. Sure, he got into a stupid bar fight, doesn't mean his season was "lackluster".

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Old
01-26-2012, 05:34 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by KingBuzzo View Post
Here's the video of Burke last night.

great video, i wonder why he didnt mention rick dudley as one of the ass't gm's

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Old
01-26-2012, 06:59 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by jtmoney67 View Post
LOL yes if we lose Mikhail Grabovski the organization will never recover. I love Grabo but man that statement is hilarious.
Need sobering up about the prospect of one of the team's more valuable players? Look at the Leafs' roster after the lockout after several significant players (Leetch and Nolan for example) left for no compensation. Or look what happened to the team after Sundin, McCabe, Tucker and Kubina left for nothing or virtually nothing.

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01-29-2012, 02:03 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by StarBurns View Post
Yes, it doesn't mean he's gone but Grabovski's status has certainly changed. Grabovski's status as a future asset for the Leafs is in serious doubt now. Since Burke has to see that this team isn't likely to become a serious candidate to win the Cup this season, Burke has to practice good asset management and not risk losing Grabovski for nothing on July 1st. This organization just isn't deep enough to absorb that type of loss without seriously regressing.
StarBurns, we are at that cross roads, the one many pointed out starting a few years ago and what the real priorities are with this organization.

and the marching orders from above BB.

Grabo won't be dealt at the TD , just to prevent the possible free loss of a valuable asset.

We have "some depth" in the organization, we have some picks this year , BB and above will not risk, nor diminish the chances of making the POs this year, just to get crushed in the first round, regardless of BBs boasts and PR.

Now BB has stated and proven so far he will not sell future for a squeeze into the POs ,just to get crushed.

BUT! he has never stated that he would NOT risk losing a valuable asset to FA for a nice chunk of future if it meant risking a PO spot, just to get his ass kicked.

Sad part is, they both add up to the same thing, just from different angles and one way is a lot easier to sell to the public and the other has so many ways to excuse yourself outa blame, (oh we hoped to sign Grabo) but alas.

BB will gamble on signing Grabo after the TD and will not move him and put the POs at greater risk. Book that.

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01-29-2012, 02:48 PM
  #92
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[QUOTE=Faltorvo;43255979]StarBurns, we are at that cross roads, the one many pointed out starting a few years ago and what the real priorities are with this organization.

and the marching orders from above BB.

Grabo won't be dealt at the TD , just to prevent the possible free loss of a valuable asset.

We have "some depth" in the organization, we have some picks this year , BB and above will not risk, nor diminish the chances of making the POs this year, just to get crushed in the first round, regardless of BBs boasts and PR.

Now BB has stated and proven so far he will not sell future for a squeeze into the POs ,just to get crushed.

BUT! he has never stated that he would NOT risk losing a valuable asset to FA for a nice chunk of future if it meant risking a PO spot, just to get his ass kicked.

Sad part is, they both add up to the same thing, just from different angles and one way is a lot easier to sell to the public and the other has so many ways to excuse yourself outa blame, (oh we hoped to sign Grabo) but alas.

BB will gamble on signing Grabo after the TD and will not move him and put the POs at greater risk. Book that.[/QUOTE]


It all depends on things we don't know like where the contract talks were left at or the potential trades that Burke is working on. Anybody could be moved the untouchables are Kessel, Phanuef, Lupul and Gardiner other than these four each and every player and prospect + picks is in play for trade to improve this team not just Grabo cause he's a UFA come season end.

Burke wont move Grabo just for a pick or prospect that is far away from being ready and he is more than willing to keep him for a playoff run and if he walks as a UFA so beat it he's gains the Cap space that Grabo currently has and will move on from there.

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Old
01-29-2012, 02:55 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by darrylsittler27 View Post
If Connolly is worth $4.75M then I dread to think what Grabovski might fetch.But if we had only signed Connolly to one year we could have given that money to Grabo.In essence we traded Connolly for Grabo ,if we don't resign him.Not a great move.I will bet you not one GM in the nhl would value Connolly at $4.5 M right now.How many GM's would take Grabo for that,at least a half dozen,including some in our own division...ouch!Irony,one could be Buffalo.
Connolly's salary is likely linked to short term.

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01-29-2012, 03:10 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by StarBurns View Post
Yes, it doesn't mean he's gone but Grabovski's status has certainly changed. Grabovski's status as a future asset for the Leafs is in serious doubt now. Since Burke has to see that this team isn't likely to become a serious candidate to win the Cup this season, Burke has to practice good asset management and not risk losing Grabovski for nothing on July 1st. This organization just isn't deep enough to absorb that type of loss without seriously regressing.
Not sure why this seems to be so hard for so many to understand. NHL teams dont necesarilly lose assets to the UFA market; they also gain cap space to sign a player to a contract, bring up a young player in the minors, or use that cap space to extend a player on the current roster. Losing a player to UFA does not mean a team loses an asset for nothing.

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01-29-2012, 03:12 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Connolly's salary is likely linked to short term.
Yes but it's also IMO about the most Grabo is worth even a slight over payment. There's a reason why the 1st two things Burke looks at when it comes to players is character and a desire to win, players with these two characteristics realize that going for the max contract hurts the ability of the team to surround them wth quality players in order to contend and the desire to win would have them rather sign a deal that's fair both for his personal wealth and the organization to have room to do other things hence the Liles re-signing.

This is part of the culture change those who go by it are the ones who end up here as core players long term so it's really in Grabo's hand cause Burke wont low ball him he'll give him something fair when it's all said and done this we know due to the fact of Burke himself is a fair man and a players GM. What did Lilies say? That he would run through a wall for Burke lets see if Grabo shares this thought.

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01-30-2012, 08:54 AM
  #96
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So Connolly ...

Typifies character and desire to win?He clogs lanes,takes up cap space and raises Grabovski's asking price.Better hope Burke has a plan because this is pure lack of foresight if we lose Grabo for nothing.Like it or not ,that is incompetence as was giving Connolly 2 years.Finger,Komi,Armstrong,Connolly,Dupuis a lot of money wasted for little impact,just a fact.But then we don't have the money for Grabo?I want see Burke sell that load!

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01-31-2012, 01:09 AM
  #97
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Not sure why this seems to be so hard for so many to understand. NHL teams don't necesarilly lose assets to the UFA market; they also gain cap space to sign a player to a contract, bring up a young player in the minors, or use that cap space to extend a player on the current roster. Losing a player to UFA does not mean a team loses an asset for nothing.
You actually made this post? and added things like "seems so hard for so many to understand"?

Losing a player to UFA does not mean a team loses an asset for nothing ,HUH??? WTF?

THAT IS exactly the definition of losing a tradeble asset for nothing. The player is the only thing that is a asset.

You want cap space? send players to the AHL/buy them out. You have young players in the minors worthy of playing in the NHL?, then demote someone not cutting it or trade him for returns.

But you don't lose the trade value of a 30/30, hard nosed, 2nd line C with tons of heart just to squeeze into the POs.

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01-31-2012, 08:52 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
You actually made this post? and added things like "seems so hard for so many to understand"?

Losing a player to UFA does not mean a team loses an asset for nothing ,HUH??? WTF?

THAT IS exactly the definition of losing a tradeble asset for nothing. The player is the only thing that is a asset.

You want cap space? send players to the AHL/buy them out. You have young players in the minors worthy of playing in the NHL?, then demote someone not cutting it or trade him for returns.

But you don't lose the trade value of a 30/30, hard nosed, 2nd line C with tons of heart just to squeeze into the POs.
Difficult to comprehend? Why is it then, some players make it to UFA. According to your logic, all players must me traded prior to UFA to ensure not losing an asset for nothing. Its not like a team earns cap space when a player leaves, and creates an another opening for a contract. Burke seems to understand this concept, not sure why you dont. I would hate to see Grabovski leave the Leafs, but i would also be disapointed to see him re-signed at a huge cap hit that could hinder future aquisitions and raises. I guess gaining cap space is not an asset? Afterall, isn't cap space that allows teams to sign players?

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02-01-2012, 01:54 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Difficult to comprehend? Why is it then, some players make it to UFA. According to your logic, all players must me traded prior to UFA to ensure not losing an asset for nothing. Its not like a team earns cap space when a player leaves, and creates an another opening for a contract. Burke seems to understand this concept, not sure why you dont. I would hate to see Grabovski leave the Leafs, but i would also be disapointed to see him re-signed at a huge cap hit that could hinder future aquisitions and raises. I guess gaining cap space is not an asset? Afterall, isn't cap space that allows teams to sign players?
You are confused.... yes clearing up cap space is a good thing but that is what you SETTLE for when u lose a player!!!!! we should easily be able to get a 1st rounder + for grabo why waste that opportunity if we arent going to keep him

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