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Erik Johnson to Philadelphia

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Old
01-29-2012, 11:50 AM
  #76
WeekendAtBernies
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
I never said the comparison is invalid. You have to accomodate differences between teams...

[BOLD]Downgrading an 11th to a 25th overall 1st usually has compensation along the lines of an additional late 1st rounder...[/BOLD]

So if you want to even it up, add a 1st on top of your offer then.

Otherwise I stand firm, the closest value to just recovering what the Avs gave up is JvR + Schenn + 1st for EJ + 2nd.

I don't care how the Flyers value JvR, Avs value EJ more, EJ is the better player and Sherman banked his career on EJ.

The market for #1 dmen isn't cheap, that asking price is what it would take more or less. Trying to throw in Siemens makes the trade damn near impossible, despite how borderline it is at what I stated.

This thread really is going nowhere fast, because EJ isn't even close to being on the market. You can make jokes saying Flyers would have to counter asking for Duchy/Lando or something asine and people can say he is overrated, but you're not getting our only 1st pairing dman from us, let alone getting the only prospect we have with legit 1st pairing potential from us in the same deal.
You still don't understand, do you. How can I make this more simple?

The original deal was:

To Avs: Erik Johnson, 1st round pick (11th overall, used on Duncan Siemens), Jay McClement

To Blues: Shattenkirk, Stewart, 2nd round pick (32nd overall, used on Ty Rattie).

The Avalanche did not give up a first round pick for EJ, they received a first round pick in addition to EJ.

To compare values:

JVR = Stewart
Schenn>= Shattenkirk
2012 1st round pick > 2011 2nd round pick

So in other words, a Flyers package of JVR, Schenn, and a 1st round pick has an equivalent or greater value to a package of EJ, Siemens, and McClement.

I do not know how I can make this any more clear.

I agree it is ridiculous because it will never happen, but I do not understand why you keep mentioning a downgrade from the eleventh pick to the twenty-fifth pick when you never gave up a first round pick in the first place...

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Old
01-29-2012, 12:31 PM
  #77
Avs44
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Originally Posted by Benighted View Post
Yeah a little confused who you are claiming I've seen 5 times? If its erik johnson well let's see, every game he was a blue, and roughly a third of the avalanche games since the trade.
Ahhhhh, your a Blues fan. That explains it, because at first I figured you were a Philly fan. Now I realize your a bitter Blues fan. Seriously, you guys infest every EJ thread similar to the way Double Dion does with Stastny threads. Could you please just get out? This has nothing to do with you. Nor have I ever seen a Blues fan actually give EJ a fair chance. EJ is no longer your player, please stay out if threads involving him.


Edit: and how do you watch all your Blues game+30 Avs games+whatever else you watch?

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01-29-2012, 02:41 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Ahhhhh, your a Blues fan. That explains it, because at first I figured you were a Philly fan. Now I realize your a bitter Blues fan. Seriously, you guys infest every EJ thread similar to the way Double Dion does with Stastny threads. Could you please just get out? This has nothing to do with you. Nor have I ever seen a Blues fan actually give EJ a fair chance. EJ is no longer your player, please stay out if threads involving him.


Edit: and how do you watch all your Blues game+30 Avs games+whatever else you watch?
I don't really see how anything I said made me bitter? Oh well...idk I'm a student so I go to school during the days and I don't usually go out till they are over anyway. Its not like I have to watch the nba haha and football is sunday afternoons (when hockey is rarely on) and baseball is only a conflict at season beginning and end. I don't think watching a couple hundred games a season is that much for most of the fans on here. Heck I'm just as die hard of a cards fan and for the most part watch all 162 or close to it, hafta radio a few here and there. That's more than avs blues comebined there. Maybe I need help? Haha I generally find most other stuff on tv garbage, pretty much just watch sports.


Last edited by Benighted: 01-29-2012 at 02:51 PM.
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Old
01-29-2012, 03:04 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Ahhhhh, your a Blues fan. That explains it, because at first I figured you were a Philly fan. Now I realize your a bitter Blues fan. Seriously, you guys infest every EJ thread similar to the way Double Dion does with Stastny threads. Could you please just get out? This has nothing to do with you. Nor have I ever seen a Blues fan actually give EJ a fair chance. EJ is no longer your player, please stay out if threads involving him.


Edit: and how do you watch all your Blues game+30 Avs games+whatever else you watch?
You make it sound like all Blues fans are bitter people. I find it funny how one Blues fan is a representation of all of us as a whole. Sure, we may be in most EJ threads, and why shouldn't we be? He was our number one overall pick, and we watched him as he stepped into the NHL. We have every right to be in these threads, just as Avs fans have every right to be in Stewart/Shatty threads. You guys watched them in Colorado, and so your opinion is certainly valid in those types of threads.

And really? You have seen no Blues fans give EJ a fair chance? Aside from the trolls which every fanbase has, we gave a fair assessment of EJ. No doubt, he is franchise dman potential, and I regard him as a number one dman at the moment, but like every young defenseman he has flaws. There are times where he tries to do too much, or has a mental lapse in the defensive zone. I understand EJ has been stellar for you guys recently, but a stretch of good games doesn't necessarily mean he should be given a free pass. For sure credit is due to EJ for picking up his game, but Stewie had a terrific stretch with us right after the trade, and look at his struggles this season. I'm not saying EJ will falter as much as Stewie, but Stewie's downfalls can be attributed to his floating at times and lack of passion, things Avs fans thoroughly mentioned. Avs fans knew what Stewie's weaknesses are, just like Blues fans know what EJ's are. Who's to say EJ's weaknesses won't surface again, and cause his play to diminish as a result? I've always believed EJ could be a franchise dman, and still do, but their is no denying that EJ has his fair share of weaknesses. Pointing them out doesn't mean we're downplaying his talent.

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Old
01-29-2012, 03:07 PM
  #80
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Why does everything turn into a biotch-fest between Avalanche and Blues fans?? It is ridiculous.

Back on topic, EJ will not be traded unless it is for an insane overpayment. Honestly, I don't even think Sherman would listen to any trade proposals for EJ.

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01-29-2012, 03:12 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by foppagirl21 View Post
Why does everything turn into a biotch-fest between Avalanche and Blues fans?? It is ridiculous.

Back on topic, EJ will not be traded unless it is for an insane overpayment. Honestly, I don't even think Sherman would listen to any trade proposals for EJ.
The trade has seriously stirred up some bad blood between the two fanbases. I'm not sure why though, both teams came out with what they wanted, and this is one of few trades I would consider win-win.

I agree, dealing EJ would only be counter-productive for you guys. I don't see anyone who could potentially take over EJ's spot, maybe Ryan Wilson? I haven't seen much of him though so I'm in a position to make such a statement. Your pipeline is mostly PMD's, like Elliot and Barrie, nobody really has the physicality and offensive ability like EJ has.

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01-29-2012, 03:16 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by foppagirl21 View Post
Why does everything turn into a biotch-fest between Avalanche and Blues fans?? It is ridiculous.
Generally -

Random Blues Fan Comes In: "EJ isn't worth that. (says something about how he sees EJ's potential) and EJ has played the same as he did in St. Louis"

Random Avs Fan Comes In: "How many Avs game have you seen?! EJ has been a no. 1 and beast! Please don't say anything unless you've seen him play"

The two argue about value, the trade, and how their team won but the other team still got a respective yet not as good value implying overpayment.

Random Other Blues/Avs Fan come in for support/argument.

Rinse, wash, repeat!

First, yes I am an Av fan, and I always see Blues fan commenting first or replying back to Av fans estimate on EJ's value. Av fans will always then argue back. Both are to blame and it'll continue for a couple more years.

Quote:
Back on topic, EJ will not be traded unless it is for an insane overpayment. Honestly, I don't even think Sherman would listen to any trade proposals for EJ.
He better listen! I don't give a crap what we paid if another team is willing to overpay (and depending on the team needs) you take it! But yes, the EJ trade and Varly trade will define his career/legacy. Its pointless to ask or guess on this forum at this point.

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Old
01-29-2012, 03:25 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by bacheesh View Post
You make it sound like all Blues fans are bitter people. I find it funny how one Blues fan is a representation of all of us as a whole. Sure, we may be in most EJ threads, and why shouldn't we be? He was our number one overall pick, and we watched him as he stepped into the NHL. We have every right to be in these threads, just as Avs fans have every right to be in Stewart/Shatty threads. You guys watched them in Colorado, and so your opinion is certainly valid in those types of threads.
And really? You have seen no Blues fans give EJ a fair chance? Aside from the trolls which every fanbase has, we gave a fair assessment of EJ. No doubt, he is franchise dman potential, and I regard him as a number one dman at the moment, but like every young defenseman he has flaws. There are times where he tries to do too much, or has a mental lapse in the defensive zone. I understand EJ has been stellar for you guys recently, but a stretch of good games doesn't necessarily mean he should be given a free pass. For sure credit is due to EJ for picking up his game, but Stewie had a terrific stretch with us right after the trade, and look at his struggles this season. I'm not saying EJ will falter as much as Stewie, but Stewie's downfalls can be attributed to his floating at times and lack of passion, things Avs fans thoroughly mentioned. Avs fans knew what Stewie's weaknesses are, just like Blues fans know what EJ's are. Who's to say EJ's weaknesses won't surface again, and cause his play to diminish as a result? I've always believed EJ could be a franchise dman, and still do, but their is no denying that EJ has his fair share of weaknesses. Pointing them out doesn't mean we're downplaying his talent.

Avs fans are constantly bunched together as well, so it's not just you guys. We welcome you to join our threads but it shouldn't turn into a **** storm which for some reason it always does. and I don't know why people for some reason can't comprehend that there can be two winners in a trade. We got a possible #1 who we're happy with, a great prospect, and a solid 3rd liner who's helping O'Reilly reach his potential and Blues got a great young PMD in Shatty, a potential 30 goal scorer in Stewart (I say potential as he is having a somewhat off year) and a great prospect in Rattie. We are all winners.

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01-29-2012, 03:34 PM
  #84
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[QUOTE=SilverAv;43258381]Avs fans are constantly bunched together as well, so it's not just you guys. We welcome you to join our threads but it shouldn't turn into a **** storm which for some reason it always does. and I don't know why people for some reason can't comprehend that there can be two winners in a trade. We got a possible #1 who we're happy with, a great prospect, and a solid 3rd liner who's helping O'Reilly reach his potential and Blues got a great young PMD in Shatty, a potential 30 goal scorer in Stewart (I say potential as he is having a somewhat off year) and a great prospect in Rattie. We are all winners.[/QUOTE

My problem is you can't even give your opinion without getting the "bitter fan is bitter" response. I can give you the most respectful argument and if it isn't ej will be a franchise defenseman I am just bitter and have only seen him play 5 games.

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01-29-2012, 03:39 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by SilverAv View Post
Avs fans are constantly bunched together as well, so it's not just you guys. We welcome you to join our threads but it shouldn't turn into a **** storm which for some reason it always does. and I don't know why people for some reason can't comprehend that there can be two winners in a trade. We got a possible #1 who we're happy with, a great prospect, and a solid 3rd liner who's helping O'Reilly reach his potential and Blues got a great young PMD in Shatty, a potential 30 goal scorer in Stewart (I say potential as he is having a somewhat off year) and a great prospect in Rattie. We are all winners.
Exactly. Both teams came out as winners, and that's all there should be to it.

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01-29-2012, 03:42 PM
  #86
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As a Blues fan, Johnson has always had the talent and judging from his stats from December and January with his improved +/- and increase in hits, it seems he is starting to finally put it together. Personally, I'm happy for him. Now he just needs to be more consistent, especially with his shot, but I am glad he is improving.

I don't think Blues fans are bitter because in reality, he really wouldn't have succeed here anyway. We needed a change because EJ, Oshie, and Berglund were partying a bit too much for management's taste. Oshie has matured, it hasn't been a problem with Berglund anymore, and it appears EJ has taken the next step in his career. A change of scenery was best for EJ and the Blues.

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01-29-2012, 03:46 PM
  #87
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This really just completely turned into a Blues-Avs thread, didn't it?

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01-29-2012, 03:47 PM
  #88
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This really just completely turned into a Blues-Avs thread, didn't it?
Hey, we're not arguing this time, don't jinx it.

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01-29-2012, 04:02 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Benighted View Post

My problem is you can't even give your opinion without getting the "bitter fan is bitter" response. I can give you the most respectful argument and if it isn't ej will be a franchise defenseman I am just bitter and have only seen him play 5 games.
It all depends on which person you talk to. Some may disagree with your assesment and give one of their own, or you could get one that gives you the "bitter fan is bitter" type of arguement. This is common on all boards tho, as I'm sure that if someone had this type of arguement over Shattenkirk, some will respectfully disagree, while some will give "bitter fan is bitter".

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01-29-2012, 04:13 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Benighted View Post

My problem is you can't even give your opinion without getting the "bitter fan is bitter" response. I can give you the most respectful argument and if it isn't ej will be a franchise defenseman I am just bitter and have only seen him play 5 games.
That's completely untrue. Most Avs fans would agree right now that EJ isn't a true #1, but the last stretch he has been playing very well and still has the potential to become that franchise D. We were stating what it would take based on all the other circumstances involved what the price would be, not what it would be if he was on the market.

Theres a difference between giving a respectful argument and saying Avs fans are out of their minds for asking this. You wouldn't have this 'problem' if you gave a level headed response, rather then throwing out insults.

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01-29-2012, 05:07 PM
  #91
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He better listen! I don't give a crap what we paid if another team is willing to overpay (and depending on the team needs) you take it! But yes, the EJ trade and Varly trade will define his career/legacy. Its pointless to ask or guess on this forum at this point.
Oh, I completely agree with you that he should listen, but your bolded statement is why I believe he will NOT listen. Trading EJ now would completely tarnish the reputation of not only Sherman, but the entire franchise. There's so much riding on the EJ trade that Sherman needs to stick with his decision at risk of losing his job.

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01-29-2012, 05:28 PM
  #92
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On behalf of St. Louis, I apologize to the Philly fans who had their thread hacked

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01-29-2012, 05:35 PM
  #93
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On behalf of St. Louis, I apologize to the Philly fans who had their thread hacked
I don't think the OP was even a Flyers fan

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01-29-2012, 05:44 PM
  #94
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That's completely untrue. Most Avs fans would agree right now that EJ isn't a true #1, but the last stretch he has been playing very well and still has the potential to become that franchise D. We were stating what it would take based on all the other circumstances involved what the price would be, not what it would be if he was on the market.

Theres a difference between giving a respectful argument and saying Avs fans are out of their minds for asking this. You wouldn't have this 'problem' if you gave a level headed response, rather then throwing out insults.
Eh I didn't really think I was insulting anyone by saying that but fair enough.

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01-29-2012, 06:52 PM
  #95
KEEROLE Vatanen
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Thats just plain stupid. The players the Av's traded for him weren't in JVR's league let alone JVR, Schenn plus a 1st. I'd laugh you right off of the phone
Really, Chris Stewart is not at JVR's level?

the best player in the deal may have been shattenkirk anyways!

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01-30-2012, 08:10 PM
  #96
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How about the flyers just give us Voracek for Quincey and we all just call it a day? Please?

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01-30-2012, 08:32 PM
  #97
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Let's see:

EJ isn't going to be traded
Dealing what it would take to ge him doesn't make sense for the Flyers
We have 3 pages of Blues and Avs fans fighting and insulting each other

Time to shut this one down

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01-30-2012, 09:13 PM
  #98
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Forget about Johnson lets talk about Hejda and Quincey instead. Any takers?

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01-30-2012, 10:17 PM
  #99
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Now, since the Flyers have a need on defense, what would the Flyers give up for EJ? JVR+?
We need defence. However I am not a big fan of EJ's game. It sounds like he may have grown up some so I am happy for that. That being said the Flyers so no to EJ and will look elsewhere. We can get more for less from another team.

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01-30-2012, 11:18 PM
  #100
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How about the flyers just give us Voracek for Quincey and we all just call it a day? Please?
Well, and your 1st for snubbing us in this thread.

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