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Assistant GM Claude Loiselle on Blue Lunch

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Old
01-28-2012, 08:12 AM
  #101
Espher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by number72 View Post
Versteeg didn't fit in is a bit of misnomer based on his stats on the leafs and his strong two way play on the leafs.
No, it's perfectly apt.

He didn't work well with the system, he didn't have particular synergy with players on our top two lines (though, like any player with good offensive talent, could still pick up points), and he had been acquired to be a top-two line (not third line) guy. He was positionally versatile and had playoff experience, but he was very much yet another perimeter player (not a bad thing, just not what we needed).

He was not a good fit, but still a good player, and he was traded to Philly, who wanted him on the third line for a playoff run. Obviously they weren't exactly super satisfied with him either and let him walk.

He has found success in Florida, and good for him. I always liked Versteeg, but some players need that right situation for things to click like that. I mean, with Lupul, MacArthur, Grabovski... we have our own players that fit that right here.

Was Komisarek a mistake? He was overpaid in free agency like a lot of players, and he had a rough start to his time here. He also gets a lot more flak from the fanbase than he actually deserves, and he's been much better this year (though still not up to his salary, but, again, free agents rarely are).

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01-28-2012, 09:09 AM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getyourselfsomerest View Post
Burke never said that Versteeg was "cancer". It was pure speculation from a small group of fans. As I said, nobody knows what goes on. His stats? on pace for 53 points over 82 games. Burke simply expected more out of him. Philly did not think he was great either. Now he's found a home in Florida. That's just the way it works out with some players.
That was my point - I'm not sure why leaf fans have to trash players after they get traded. The fans are better then that.

And I expect more from Komisarek (and have for two years he has been here).
In fact much more from him relative to what Versteeg was playing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Espher View Post
No, it's perfectly apt.

He didn't work well with the system, he didn't have particular synergy with players on our top two lines (though, like any player with good offensive talent, could still pick up points), and he had been acquired to be a top-two line (not third line) guy. He was positionally versatile and had playoff experience, but he was very much yet another perimeter player (not a bad thing, just not what we needed).

He was not a good fit, but still a good player, and he was traded to Philly, who wanted him on the third line for a playoff run. Obviously they weren't exactly super satisfied with him either and let him walk.

He has found success in Florida, and good for him. I always liked Versteeg, but some players need that right situation for things to click like that. I mean, with Lupul, MacArthur, Grabovski... we have our own players that fit that right here.

Was Komisarek a mistake? He was overpaid in free agency like a lot of players, and he had a rough start to his time here. He also gets a lot more flak from the fanbase than he actually deserves, and he's been much better this year (though still not up to his salary, but, again, free agents rarely are).
Why are you sure the problem is Versteeg and not how he was used or the coaching system. Maybe the problem is Wilson was incapable of putting him in situations to succeed.
- Look at Versteeg's points in Florida.
- Look at Mitchell play on the Rangers

When you trade a player that turns out to be top 20 (#23) in league scoring and a top 3 forward in the league with a decent contract - that team needs to take a look at itself because it might not be the player. Versteeg is no Phil Kessel that can produce high #s in any situation with any teammates but the team just gave away a very talented player.

And why are you so generous with Komisarek shortcomings and dismiss Versteeg who produced on the leafs.

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Old
01-28-2012, 09:19 AM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by number72 View Post
That was my point - I'm not sure why leaf fans have to trash players after they get traded. The fans are better then that.

And I expect more from Komisarek (and have for two years he has been here).
In fact much more from him relative to what Versteeg was playing.



Why are you sure the problem is Versteeg and not how he was used or the coaching system. Maybe the problem is Wilson was incapable of putting him in situations to succeed.
- Look at Versteeg's points in Florida.
- Look at Mitchell play on the Rangers

When you trade a player that turns out to be top 20 (#23) in league scoring and a top 3 forward in the league with a decent contract - that team needs to take a look at itself because it might not be the player. Versteeg is no Phil Kessel that can produce high #s in any situation with any teammates but the team just gave away a very talented player.

And why are you so generous with Komisarek shortcomings and dismiss Versteeg who produced on the leafs.
Some players just never work out on some teams. Some players hit that perfect situation. Regardless, trading Versteeg (for a decent return) allowed the room to take on Lupul. Lupul fits the Leafs, and Kessel in particular, far better then Versteeg.

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Old
01-28-2012, 10:03 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by number72 View Post
That was my point - I'm not sure why leaf fans have to trash players after they get traded. The fans are better then that.

And I expect more from Komisarek (and have for two years he has been here).
In fact much more from him relative to what Versteeg was playing.



Why are you sure the problem is Versteeg and not how he was used or the coaching system. Maybe the problem is Wilson was incapable of putting him in situations to succeed.
- Look at Versteeg's points in Florida.
- Look at Mitchell play on the Rangers

When you trade a player that turns out to be top 20 (#23) in league scoring and a top 3 forward in the league with a decent contract - that team needs to take a look at itself because it might not be the player. Versteeg is no Phil Kessel that can produce high #s in any situation with any teammates but the team just gave away a very talented player.

And why are you so generous with Komisarek shortcomings and dismiss Versteeg who produced on the leafs.
Ok except you're not going to change the coaching system because 1 player doesn't fit. Especially when Lupul comes in and finds chemistry almost instantly with Kessel. Versteeg played most often with Bozak and Kessel 5 on 5 and was used on the PP. They were expecting greater things from Versteeg and it didn't happen. It didn't happen in Philly either so they traded him to Florida.

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01-28-2012, 10:21 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by number72 View Post
That was my point - I'm not sure why leaf fans have to trash players after they get traded. The fans are better then that.

And I expect more from Komisarek (and have for two years he has been here).
In fact much more from him relative to what Versteeg was playing.



Why are you sure the problem is Versteeg and not how he was used or the coaching system. Maybe the problem is Wilson was incapable of putting him in situations to succeed.
- Look at Versteeg's points in Florida.
- Look at Mitchell play on the Rangers

When you trade a player that turns out to be top 20 (#23) in league scoring and a top 3 forward in the league with a decent contract - that team needs to take a look at itself because it might not be the player. Versteeg is no Phil Kessel that can produce high #s in any situation with any teammates but the team just gave away a very talented player.

And why are you so generous with Komisarek shortcomings and dismiss Versteeg who produced on the leafs.
Then what about making Lupul, a 3rd line player on Anaheim, someone that people were doubting if he would reach his potential or even play in the NHL again, a top 5 scorer in the NHL?

What about turning Mac, a 3rd line tweener, into a top 6 forward and having more successs then he ever had with Buffalo?

What about turning Phil "he's never going to be a 2-way player" Kessel into, a 2-way offensive dynamo?

What about making Grabo, a childish troublemaking, one-dimensional, selfish player in Montreal, to our best 2-way forward, center, most consistent forward that plays his ass off every game?

etc etc etc...

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Old
01-28-2012, 10:31 AM
  #106
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The idea of changing the system for one player is silly. That's what trades are for anyways. Player's are just assets to the system and if they don't fit then you move them.

The excepting is your franchise player whom the system should be built around.

Steegers problem here had a lot more to do with not meshing in the city then anything else. This situation is not uncommon, get over it

Leaf fans trashing his car had nothing to do with his trading. Also, it's not like we gave him away for nothing.

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Old
01-28-2012, 02:01 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Blue Devil View Post
Then what about making Lupul, a 3rd line player on Anaheim, someone that people were doubting if he would reach his potential or even play in the NHL again, a top 5 scorer in the NHL?

What about turning Mac, a 3rd line tweener, into a top 6 forward and having more successs then he ever had with Buffalo?

What about turning Phil "he's never going to be a 2-way player" Kessel into, a 2-way offensive dynamo?

What about making Grabo, a childish troublemaking, one-dimensional, selfish player in Montreal, to our best 2-way forward, center, most consistent forward that plays his ass off every game?

etc etc etc...

Sure and kulemin's slump this year. And Reimer, Schenn and Komisarek's poor play.
If you credit Wilson with Kessel success then equally credit him for his inability to impact Schenn's poor play (and Wilson inability to find a way for Versteeg's to contribute even more then he did last year).

Some people want to say Wilson made these great contributions to players and then ignore or discount and find excuses for Wilson in the situations when things don't work out for a players. If Schenn was playing well, people would say look Wilson had a great contribution. But because Schenn is playing poor, well it is not Wilson's fault, Schenn is young and struggling. That makes no sense and there is no accountability.

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Old
01-28-2012, 02:06 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
Some players just never work out on some teams. Some players hit that perfect situation. Regardless, trading Versteeg (for a decent return) allowed the room to take on Lupul. Lupul fits the Leafs, and Kessel in particular, far better then Versteeg.
I'm not sure why they think there was a problem Versteeg's play in Toronto.
Versteeg was on pace for 54 points in 82 games or 0.66 points per game.
Kulemin ended with 57
Macarthur ended with 62
Grabovski ended with 58
Kessel with ended with 64

He was on the low end of the top 6 BUT Wilson put him on the third line (the third line) And even there Versteeg found a way to contribute to the team.

Who wants to change the system for Versteeg - the reality is he wasn't give enough time to develop chemistry. Look at the struggles of Kulemin, Schenn and Komisarek this year and people say be patient. Things will work out for them - they are going through a soft patch. But Versteeg was some kind of bust (that was way overachieving at 54 points playing limited time on the third line) so trading him was somehow smart. Versteeg wasn't even slumping like Kulemin this year.

The point is you don't trade points producing players like this for draft picks that contribute to the team 4 or 5 years later. The team is worse off with Versteeg and especially given Versteeg big #.

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Old
01-28-2012, 02:17 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by number72 View Post
Versteeg didn't fit in is a bit of misnomer based on his stats on the leafs and his strong two way play on the leafs. Burke wanted picks for the rebuild/trades which meant Versteeg with playoff experience was the most tradeable. Saying Versteeg was a cancer is the way you break it fans.
Just to make sure, you are talking about Kris, right? The same guy who was notorious for trying to dangle through too many guys and constantly coughing the puck up? The guy fans wanted off the point on our PK because he was so horrible at keeping the puck in?

Maybe the fact that he was on his 4th team in 3 years finally got through to him in the offseason, and e started taking things more seriously. I'm happy for his success, but would not want him back on the leafs even now.

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Originally Posted by number72 View Post
I don't expect Burke be perfect but I do think he needs to improve the teams defensive game (get a decent shutdown defender first and then resign grabbo or find a bigger 2 way forward).
Bigger and preferrably meaner.

And it's not Burke who has to improve the team's defensive game, but Wilson. I believe we have a decent defensive core that some coaches around the league could work marvels with.

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Old
01-29-2012, 11:19 PM
  #110
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What happens if we go into the penguins game with 1mill over the cap?

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