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01-30-2012, 09:01 PM
  #301
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
I don't keep saying it. I said it once and was repeating what others have said, Elliot Friedman and the entire CBC crew said it just last week after the Bourque/Cammy trade though and it was not shopped that they spoke of not too fast.

I don't really care about the topic to be honest. I just find it funny that our hf boards insiders know the real truth when the media both suggested both scenarios and there were more that said he wasn't than those that said he was. In the end, I don't give a crap. I like what we got.
Sorry i do care, because it's something that's been floating around these boards for a while and almost got to me (definitely got to you if you're siding with "them")
And HFboards is pulling out what Bobby mac said and what Agent said, to confirm that PG shopped Halak to at least 2 teams, STL and Atl, and VERY likley to 2 other teams, as per Bobby Mac, who i doubt would misuse his sources and make bold assumptions, which he has never done (or so i believe).

i didnt really understand the bolded part there. What trade were they talking about exactly? the Cammy trade or the halak trade? Did they say PG didn't shop him or did they say they moved him to fast? (As for cammy, in retrospective, i could understand why you would want to pull the trigger fast at that point, i don't think with cammys salary and current production he would of fetched a cheaper roster player, a prospect and a 2nd round pick from anyone else, except to a GM who believes he can make it work again, aka Gomez )

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01-30-2012, 09:06 PM
  #302
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What Freidman said at the time that there was one GM that told him that he was not aware Cammalleri was available.

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01-30-2012, 09:11 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Artie View Post
What Freidman said at the time that there was one GM that told him that he was not aware Cammalleri was available.
I think it was Lebrun who tweeted it actually.

Anyway, we heard the same thing with Halak was traded, and when Phaneuf was traded, and when Thornton was traded...virtually any time there's a "from out of nowhere" trade that line seems to come up.

I'm not inclined to believe it though, just for the sheer lack of logic it bears. What advantage is it to a GM to not try and get the best return for his asset?

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01-30-2012, 09:11 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Artie View Post
What Freidman said at the time that there was one GM that told him that he was not aware Cammalleri was available.
He basically said that there is a 4% chance that he didn't shop Camy. Which says nothing about halak situation.

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01-30-2012, 09:16 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Artie View Post
What Freidman said at the time that there was one GM that told him that he was not aware Cammalleri was available.
There are 7 teams Cammy had a no trade clause to.

What if that GM was the GM of one of those 7 teams?

or

What if it was Brian Burke, or Peter Chiarelli, or Bryan Murray, or Darcy Regier... four other teams who Gauthier probably wouldnt have wanted to trade Cammy to.

You've basically eliminated 11 possible trade partners right off the bat.

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01-30-2012, 09:23 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
There are 7 teams Cammy had a no trade clause to.

What if that GM was the GM of one of those 7 teams?

or

What if it was Brian Burke, or Peter Chiarelli, or Bryan Murray, or Darcy Regier... four other teams who Gauthier probably wouldnt have wanted to trade Cammy to.

You've basically eliminated 11 possible trade partners right off the bat.
Not sure about the numbers, but something similar.
If a GM says he didn't know Cammy was available, then he probably wasn't getting him anyways.
I don't think every time there is a trade, the 29 other GMs are told about it. That would be an unrealistic expectation.
If I'm a GM, and I'm thinking of moving a valuable asset, I aim a few teams that have assets I'm also interested in, get in contact with them and get wtv I feel is the best deal.

I also feel that as a GM, you need to constantly be open to improving your team. So, if you're looking for a pure goal scorer, and haven't even thought of calling PG for Cammy, then you're not doing a good job or aren't interested. Especially after saying the loser comments. If you don't care for a pure goal scorer, then you don't really need to know if Cammy is on the market.


Last edited by Kriss E: 01-30-2012 at 09:37 PM.
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01-30-2012, 09:26 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I think it was Lebrun who tweeted it actually.

Anyway, we heard the same thing with Halak was traded, and when Phaneuf was traded, and when Thornton was traded...virtually any time there's a "from out of nowhere" trade that line seems to come up.

I'm not inclined to believe it though, just for the sheer lack of logic it bears. What advantage is it to a GM to not try and get the best return for his asset?
yes you are right it was Lebrun.

Given the crap that had gone on in Montreal, if that GM was interested in Cammalleri, maybe he should have picked up the phone.

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01-30-2012, 10:08 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Artie View Post
yes you are right it was Lebrun.

Given the crap that had gone on in Montreal, if that GM was interested in Cammalleri, maybe he should have picked up the phone.
YUP

So far I'm very happy that Calgary's GM had an inside track.

Let's also consider that on top of the 11 aforementioned teams that PG might not talk to, you may also add teams that couldn't take Cammy cap hit or had nothing we we interested in.... brings the numbers up to 15 or so at least....

Journalist stirring the pot.

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01-30-2012, 10:40 PM
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Like others have said, if you didn't know Cammy and Halak were on the table you should have because everyone else knew.

Two starting goalies on the same team, playing that well and you don't think "gee I wonder if they will trade one!" That is Milbury level of dumb right there.

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01-30-2012, 10:52 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Boardish View Post
You have so much hatred inside you. It can't be good for your health.

It blows my mind.
Its not hatred. Its called incredulity.

"Some" writers/hockey analysts who criticize Gauthier are called out on this board as being idiotic and how we are not supposed to believe anything that they say. This is followed with posts slamming the Montreal media and calling it one of the reasons for everything bad that happens to this franchise.

But......when there is a member of the media that comes out and shows Gauthier in a positive light, that person in the media is quoted and is an expert who is speaking the absolute truth.

Meanwhile, we are in year 3 of Gauthier and the Canadiens are getting worse and we will probably not even get a chance to be eliminated in the first round this year.

The blind devotion and the need to prop up Gauthier baffles me.

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01-30-2012, 10:53 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by habfaninvictoria View Post
YUP

So far I'm very happy that Calgary's GM had an inside track.

Let's also consider that on top of the 11 aforementioned teams that PG might not talk to, you may also add teams that couldn't take Cammy cap hit or had nothing we we interested in.... brings the numbers up to 15 or so at least....

Journalist stirring the pot.
Not really. I know what you're saying, but I think it's artificially limiting the perception of possibilities, imo, without considering how similar steps/"liberties" could be taken to show more trade options as frequently as you find ways to limit them. We talk about the teams listed on his limited NTC, but I wonder if there's a chance (despite the obvious tension in the situation that would be between Cammy/PG) that he would have changed his mind about any of them if asked to waive it.

He signed that contract in the '08/09 off season, and I don't know how regularly they update their NTC team lists (or if they're even able to mid-contract). There could be teams on it that were horrible in '08/09 that might be more attractive in terms of trade destination now.

Nashville was at the bottom of their division then, look at them now. Kings. Thrashers (now Jets, wonder if that was one on his previous list that he might have re-thought). Rangers. Panthers. St. Louis. Lots of teams that he might have ruled out then that he might have thought about "now", if he and PG ever had this conversation. Don't know how willing Cammy would have been to make any concessions, given the circumstances, but...

Just sayin', it's not easy at all to pin-point precisely how many options were out there. It's my impression from all the information we have that not all of them (including the "unlikely") were explored, but all we'd have is speculation as to what we might have gotten from any of them anyway, so I guess it's pretty much moot at this point. We replaced Cammy with Bourque, and we'll see how much tougher we are to play against as a result.

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01-30-2012, 10:55 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Not really. I know what you're saying, but I think it's artificially limiting the perception of possibilities, imo, without considering how similar steps/"liberties" could be taken to show more trade options as frequently as you find ways to limit them. We talk about the teams listed on his limited NTC, but I wonder if there's a chance (despite the obvious tension in the situation that would be between Cammy/PG) that he would have changed his mind about any of them if asked to waive it.

He signed that contract in the '08/09 off season, and I don't know how regularly they update their NTC team lists (or if they're even able to mid-contract). There could be teams on it that were horrible in '08/09 that might be more attractive in terms of trade destination now.

Nashville was at the bottom of their division then, look at them now. Kings. Thrashers (now Jets, wonder if that was one on his previous list that he might have re-thought). Rangers. Panthers. St. Louis. Lots of teams that he might have ruled out then that he might have thought about "now", if he and PG ever had this conversation. Don't know how willing Cammy would have been to make any concessions, given the circumstances, but...

Just sayin', it's not easy at all to pin-point precisely how many options were out there. It's my impression from all the information we have that not all of them (including the "unlikely") were explored, but all we'd have is speculation as to what we might have gotten from any of them anyway, so I guess it's pretty much moot at this point. We replaced Cammy with Bourque, and we'll see how much tougher we are to play against as a result.
Cammy was allowed to update his NTC in July every year.

This is how it works for most limited NTCs that include your list of non-tradeable teams.

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01-30-2012, 10:59 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Its not hatred. Its called incredulity.

"Some" writers/hockey analysts who criticize Gauthier are called out on this board as being idiotic and how we are not supposed to believe anything that they say. This is followed with posts slamming the Montreal media and calling it one of the reasons for everything bad that happens to this franchise.

But......when there is a member of the media that comes out and shows Gauthier in a positive light, that person in the media is quoted and is an expert who is speaking the absolute truth.

Meanwhile, we are in year 3 of Gauthier and the Canadiens are getting worse and we will probably not even get a chance to be eliminated in the first round this year.

The blind devotion and the need to prop up Gauthier baffles me.
The media guy who you are going crazy about, and who you question why people think he is an expert and speaks the absolute truth?

Bob McKenzie.


There are a few reasons why Bob is given that kind of respect, and his insider information is treated as the "truth" it has nothing to do with people wanting to protect Gauthier, and everything to do with the fact that Bob McKenzie is the #1 most respected insider in all of hockey, bar none.

This isn't a battle of two reporters who are on equal footing, this isn't Pat Hickey writing one thing in the Gazette and Francois Gagnon writing another thing in LaPresse.

This is Bob McKenzie.... if he put it out there, you can take it to the bank.

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01-30-2012, 11:32 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Cammy was allowed to update his NTC in July every year.

This is how it works for most limited NTCs that include your list of non-tradeable teams.
I've heard that before, but I don't think I've never seen where the "rules" of NTC creation/alteration are written. I mean, it makes sense, but I'd like to read something "official" on the topic, too.

Gonna be less of an issue with the new CBA. I think the rules are 8 years of NHL service, including 4 with the team trying to re-sign you, or something like that. That's really gonna curb the eligibility on teams like ours, lol, with a <4 year cleansing cycle.


Last edited by SixthSens: 01-31-2012 at 07:04 AM. Reason: removed quote
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01-31-2012, 01:35 AM
  #315
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PK alone is worth more than Richards...
Not at the time of the Halak deal. Richards was seen as untouchable and as the ultimate leader.

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01-31-2012, 04:12 AM
  #316
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Sorry i do care, because it's something that's been floating around these boards for a while and almost got to me (definitely got to you if you're siding with "them")
And HFboards is pulling out what Bobby mac said and what Agent said, to confirm that PG shopped Halak to at least 2 teams, STL and Atl, and VERY likley to 2 other teams, as per Bobby Mac, who i doubt would misuse his sources and make bold assumptions, which he has never done (or so i believe).

i didnt really understand the bolded part there. What trade were they talking about exactly? the Cammy trade or the halak trade? Did they say PG didn't shop him or did they say they moved him to fast? (As for cammy, in retrospective, i could understand why you would want to pull the trigger fast at that point, i don't think with cammys salary and current production he would of fetched a cheaper roster player, a prospect and a 2nd round pick from anyone else, except to a GM who believes he can make it work again, aka Gomez )
They discussed both trades and concluded they were similar in the fact that no shopping took place either time, diddo for sportsnet. Like I said, I am not going to pretend to know who is right. If you want to, feel free.

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01-31-2012, 04:49 AM
  #317
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Its not hatred. Its called incredulity.

"Some" writers/hockey analysts who criticize Gauthier are called out on this board as being idiotic and how we are not supposed to believe anything that they say. This is followed with posts slamming the Montreal media and calling it one of the reasons for everything bad that happens to this franchise.

But......when there is a member of the media that comes out and shows Gauthier in a positive light, that person in the media is quoted and is an expert who is speaking the absolute truth.

Meanwhile, we are in year 3 of Gauthier and the Canadiens are getting worse and we will probably not even get a chance to be eliminated in the first round this year.

The blind devotion and the need to prop up Gauthier baffles me.
I agree with this. In the case of the Halak trade, I don't really care who said what, because I think we did well. All I said was I don't know who is right in this case and neither do they, but they seem to feel the need to show they are right by quoting one guy. If Mac said it didn't happen, they'd be saying what does a lousy analyst from TSN kno, there's a reason he doesn't have a job ect ect.

Whatever I don't care about it. I find Pierre McGuire every bit as credible as Bobby Mac, many disagree, but I think they disagree because PM has criticized BG and PG where BM hasn't. It looks like Pierre McGuire may have knew what he was talking about when he said Sideshow Bob made a bunch of lateral moves when trading for Gomez and Signing Cammy/Gionta/Spacek/Gill ect ect ect. Wasn't a popular opinion in these parts, but it was 100% accurate.

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01-31-2012, 04:51 AM
  #318
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It's similar to when Scotty Bowman says to keep Price, it's the be all end all. When he says Pierre McGuire would make a good GM, it's just talk and old Scotty is losing it, but if he agrees with you, he's on the money.

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01-31-2012, 08:33 AM
  #319
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It's similar to when Scotty Bowman says to keep Price, it's the be all end all. When he says Pierre McGuire would make a good GM, it's just talk and old Scotty is losing it, but if he agrees with you, he's on the money.
No it's not. Suggesting something, or giving your opinion does not equate having inside sources about whp GMs are interested in.

McKenzie saying my sources are telling me teams x, y and z are interested in player a is not at all the samething as him saying, if I was team x, y and z, I would be interested in player a.


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01-31-2012, 08:51 AM
  #320
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I saw it on RDS the other day, and it seemed so true, they were saying that they are some GM, that send out an email to the whole league that they are looking to deal player X, and you have 24 hours to make me an offer, ex Burke, and then they are GM like PG for example, that when looking to trade a player, they pick out a handful of players they are looking for and feel that that is that there value is, and they deal approach those teams directly.

I think that perfectly describes PG approach, he seems to have a plan (whether you agree with it or not), and he follows it. He felt like he need a big centre prospect that was ready to play, and a grinder in a similar position. And he went out and got the players he wanted that fit that need in Eller and Schultz for Halak.

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01-31-2012, 09:04 AM
  #321
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The Caps traded Semyon Varlamov a 1st and 2nd round pick on July 1st.

The more you wait the more you open your self to the risk of teams lowering their offer knowing that they can sign him to an offer-sheet July 1st. Image St Louis was still offer Eller/Schults, but PG was trying to get a team like San Jose (Bob Mac confirmed they made a pitch for Halak) to offer something bigger. Both teams can withdraw their offers, offer Halak the same contract he got with St Louis 4/3.75M. And MTL would have been screwed, image he signs that offer with San Jose, MTL would have just accept the 1st and 3 round pick. When Clearly they value Eller/Schultz over a 1st and 3rd round pick in 2011.

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01-31-2012, 10:20 AM
  #322
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Its not hatred. Its called incredulity.

"Some" writers/hockey analysts who criticize Gauthier are called out on this board as being idiotic and how we are not supposed to believe anything that they say. This is followed with posts slamming the Montreal media and calling it one of the reasons for everything bad that happens to this franchise.

But......when there is a member of the media that comes out and shows Gauthier in a positive light, that person in the media is quoted and is an expert who is speaking the absolute truth.

Meanwhile, we are in year 3 of Gauthier and the Canadiens are getting worse and we will probably not even get a chance to be eliminated in the first round this year.

The blind devotion and the need to prop up Gauthier baffles me.
It's not blind devotion, some fans are bright enough to look at things objectively unlike you.

For the most part, the source of the struggles(Gomez Cammy Markov Gionta Spacek) have little to do with Gauthier unless you want to play the "guilty by association" game.

The guys he kept or went out and got are the ones doing their job...Gorges Price Desharnais Cole Eller Plekanec etc

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01-31-2012, 10:23 AM
  #323
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The Caps traded Semyon Varlamov a 1st and 2nd round pick on July 1st.

The more you wait the more you open your self to the risk of teams lowering their offer knowing that they can sign him to an offer-sheet July 1st. Image St Louis was still offer Eller/Schults, but PG was trying to get a team like San Jose (Bob Mac confirmed they made a pitch for Halak) to offer something bigger. Both teams can withdraw their offers, offer Halak the same contract he got with St Louis 4/3.75M. And MTL would have been screwed, image he signs that offer with San Jose, MTL would have just accept the 1st and 3 round pick. When Clearly they value Eller/Schultz over a 1st and 3rd round pick in 2011.
The market for goalies in the summer of 2010 was waayyy different from the summer of 2011.

There were a lot less competent goalies as UFA or available via trade plus instead of having Niemi beat Leighton in the final it was thomas carrying Boston and beating Luongo. NHL teams have a monkey see monkey do style.

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01-31-2012, 10:23 AM
  #324
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It's not blind devotion, some fans are bright enough to look at things objectively unlike you.

For the most part, the source of the struggles(Gomez Cammy Markov Gionta Spacek) have little to do with Gauthier unless you want to play the "guilty by association" game.

The guys he kept or went out and got are the ones doing their job...Gorges Price Desharnais Cole Eller Plekanec etc
How ironic

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01-31-2012, 03:09 PM
  #325
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The market for goalies in the summer of 2010 was waayyy different from the summer of 2011.

There were a lot less competent goalies as UFA or available via trade plus instead of having Niemi beat Leighton in the final it was thomas carrying Boston and beating Luongo. NHL teams have a monkey see monkey do style.
There's also the aspect of actually having the player NOW instead of the pick. I know everyone likes draft picks, they're shiny and it's cool to have the GM go up and announce a name. But if you compare the Halak and Varlamov trades, Montreal got a guy who was drafted 14th (or thereabouts) who was already a year into his development and is, a season and half later, a legitimate component of the team's present and future.

Washington doesn't even have their player picked yet and if season ended today, they'd get a pick at #12...meaning they're likely three-four seasons between trading Varlamov and getting any use out of the drafted player.

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