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Regehr Another Blue Line Bust for Regier

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01-31-2012, 03:13 PM
  #1
Zip15
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Regehr Another Blue Line Bust for Regier

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1242

The Regehr fans are not going to like this article.

Quote:
Amidst the egregious screw-ups, one has been largely overlooked: Regier's trade for defenseman Robyn Regehr; a highly lauded move which has turned into a bust.
Quote:
The once great stay-at-home tough guy is now a worn-out shell of what he once was in Calgary. He's still tough and he's still a stand-up leader, but his already below-average speed and skating ability are all but gone. Essentially, the deal has turned into a repeat of the 2007 decision to acquire defenseman Craig Rivet and 2010 choice to pick up Shaone Morrisonn. Both busts.
Quote:
It's impossible to tell whether Regehr's presence is paying dividends for younger players, but Myers' play has not improved. In fact, it's regressed. Myers has rarely shown the type of grit the Sabres hoped he would develop.

Whether the intangibles are paying off or not is hard to say. The cold hard facts, however, paint Regehr as a failure of impressive proportions. Goals Versus Threshold currently ranks Regehr as the 10th worst defenseman in the NHL. He's scored two points in 43 games and is minus-13.

How bad is that? Here are some fun facts to illustrate:

– Eight goalies have more points
– 206 defensemen have more points
– 265 defensemen have a better plus-minus
– 115 defensemen play more shifts per game
– 123 defensemen average more playing time
– 187 defensemen have at least one goal
– 197 defenseman have at least three assists
– Only 39 defensemen have bigger cap hits
Quote:
Butler currently has 11 points and is plus-4 (if you subtract one minus-7 game, he'd be plus-11). He's also only 25-years-old, while Regehr is 31 going on 45.

Make no mistake, Butler is no superstar. But he has often been on the team's top pairing with Jay Bouwmeester. He also ranks 15th on Awad's "most improved players" list.
As an unrelated aside, go figure that a defenseman whose head was constantly ****ed with by Ruff improves when he leaves Buffalo. Who would've thunk it?

Quote:
An oft-made argument for Regehr is that stats don't tell the entire story—that his job is not to score. While that may have been true at times throughout his career, the Sabres badly need scoring. They rank in the bottom five in the NHL in goals. In the past, Regehr has scored a little. He managed 21 points in 2006-07 with very little ice time during the power play. Now when he's on the ice, there's essentially zero chance he'll create a goal.
Quote:
When in the offensive zone, Regehr not only does not create, he also allows the opposition to start rushes of their own. His lack of speed often forces him to drop back into the neutral zone early on "50/50 pucks" that a quicker defenseman likely could have kept in the offensive zone.

His failure to keep the puck in is demonstrated in his Relative Corsi of -19.0, ranking dead last among Sabres regulars. The team's Corsi when he's off the ice is 3.8 and -15.2 when he is on the ice. That is by far the worst ratio on the team.
Quote:
In Regehr's defense, his Relative Corsi Quality of Competition is the highest on the Sabres. He's often—if not always—facing the opponents' top two lines. However, Regehr's Corsi Rel QoC is 1.079. Butler's is 1.809. In other words, Regehr may be facing tough competition, but Butler is facing tougher opponents and performing much better.
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It's hard to say how much better Buffalo would be with Butler instead of Regehr. There's a good chance the Sabres would still be in last place in the Eastern Conference. And his presence hasn't been all bad. Regehr has been a fairly solid penalty killer. Then again, $4 million cap hit for a "solid penalty killer" on the 21st-ranked penalty kill in the NHL is pretty bad.

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01-31-2012, 03:17 PM
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What is this I don't even...


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01-31-2012, 03:23 PM
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Sure, Butler is good except the fact that no player in the last 20 years has had as bad of a game has he's had.

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01-31-2012, 03:28 PM
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In Regehr's defense, his Relative Corsi Quality of Competition is the highest on the Sabres. He's often—if not always—facing the opponents' top two lines.
And it's a marked improvement over anything we've had in a long, long time.

There are Regehr haters on this board. For sure. But I'm the antithesis of one. Stop dissecting the **** out of stats and watch him play - specifically in front of our own net and in the corners.

He has brought:

- veteran presence
- physicality
- solid PK ability
- toughness
- a true defensive defensman's presence in the top-4

All things that Butler had no chance of bringing. This, so far, is not a bust of a trade. At all.

A -13 on a team that CAN'T ****ING SCORE, while playing against top opponents? Shut the **** up and stop nitpicking. He's so far from anything CLOSE to the problem of this team, and we have to read this.

Also, can someone look up his zone starts? I'd expect them to be heavily in favor of drops in our own end...because he's good defensively.

Not to mention the fact that Byron is....

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01-31-2012, 03:29 PM
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01-31-2012, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
An oft-made argument for Regehr is that stats don't tell the entire story—that his job is not to score. While that may have been true at times throughout his career, the Sabres badly need scoring. They rank in the bottom five in the NHL in goals.
Yes, we needed another offensive defenseman this year instead of a stay-at-home guy.

Great analysis, hockeyprospectus.

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01-31-2012, 03:34 PM
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I too write about things without watching them.

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01-31-2012, 03:37 PM
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Regehr might not have lived up to the loft expectations, however, I'd hardly call him a bust.

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01-31-2012, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
And it's a marked improvement over anything we've had in a long, long time.

There are Regehr haters on this board. For sure. But I'm the antithesis of one. Stop dissecting the **** out of stats and watch him play - specifically in front of our own net and in the corners.
I hope you're not intimating I'm a Regehr hater, because I'm not. Do I recognize that he's not a top-pairing defenseman in the NHL anymore, though, at least on a contender? I do.

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01-31-2012, 03:37 PM
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I can't believe anyone thinks it's OK to evaluate Regehr by points and plus/minus. It doesn't really get any dumber than that. As for the advanced metrics, I swear by them in baseball because I know how effective they are in that sport. Hockey, on the other hand? Meh.

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01-31-2012, 03:40 PM
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I think you should write the author an e-mail to express your outrage. Let him have it.


Last edited by vcv: 01-31-2012 at 03:43 PM. Reason: Not 4chan
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01-31-2012, 03:40 PM
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In what world was Rivet a bust? Was it because he didn't single-handedly carry them into the playoffs?

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01-31-2012, 03:42 PM
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Bust? Strong terms for a guy who's been as advertised since arrival. Eh. Time to pile on someone who's actually done their job...

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01-31-2012, 03:45 PM
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Regehr has been our best defender this year, and it ain't even close.

I wish I too could pull articles out of my ass and call it sports journalism.

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01-31-2012, 03:45 PM
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We should start organizing these hits pieces so we can focus on bashing one player/owner/management member at a time.

Can't have Pommer and Regehr sharing a day.

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01-31-2012, 03:46 PM
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Thanks for the extract, Zip. I knew I wouldn't have to bother clicking and wasting my time once their first criticism of Robyn Regehr was based on points.

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01-31-2012, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
I hope you're not intimating I'm a Regehr hater, because I'm not. Do I recognize that he's not a top-pairing defenseman in the NHL anymore, though, at least on a contender? I do.
I think that's debatable at this very moment in time - but even if he's not, Sekera and Ehrhoff have both shown to be able to handle big minutes and/or top opposition. Again...Regehr brought a handful of things that were blatantly absent from this unit. Insinuating we would be better with Butler and Byron instead of Regehr is insulting to people who watch him play and have watched the team D as a whole over the past several seasons.

Seems that this bears repeating: THE DEFENSIVE UNIT IS NOT A PROBLEM. The top-6 we have is not the problem of this team, and Regehr isn't a problem of this top-6, which again, is not a problem in and of itself.

The team's problem is up front, plain and simple. Could we ask for some better goaltending? Sure. But when your forwards commit the two biggest, basic overall hockey sins at their position...:

- FAILURE TO SCORE/PRODUCE OFFENSE

- FAILURE TO COMPREHEND DEFENSIVE ZONE RESPONSIBILITY

...your team disintegrates, as we currently are witnessing.

I wasn't intimating that you were a hater. Jame is, though - right, buddy?

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01-31-2012, 04:03 PM
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This article is painful to read. Coller has a mini back and forth debate with himself in nearly every paragraph. "Fact against Regehr. However, fact in favor. Then again, Butler related fact against."

I'm not as impressed with him as I thought I'd be, but he brings elements that the defense was sorely lacking. When you're sorely lacking something, it's common to pay a premium to add it.

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01-31-2012, 04:05 PM
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I'm surprised nobody has attacked the author on the grounds that he's the guy who asked Kassian why he hasn't fought more.

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01-31-2012, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardiffgiant View Post
This article is painful to read. Coller has a mini back and forth debate with himself in nearly every paragraph. "Fact against Regehr. However, fact in favor. Then again, Butler related fact against."

I'm not as impressed with him as I thought I'd be, but he brings elements that the defense was sorely lacking. When you're sorely lacking something, it's common to pay a premium to add it.
And this is where Regier gets unwarranted flack. With due respect...pay a premium? What "premium" did he pay to improve the D? Ehrhoff's cap hit is perfectly fine for his play, and getting Regehr by giving up Chris Butler was hardly a tough concession.

Regier improved the D tremendously with those two moves. You can reach and give him credit for McNabb, too, since he did draft him

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01-31-2012, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
I'm surprised nobody has attacked the author on the grounds that he's the guy who asked Kassian why he hasn't fought more.
Probably because most didn't catch that. Wow. Nice one.

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01-31-2012, 04:17 PM
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Regehr has NOT lived up to expectations. As advertised? Not the advertisement I saw...

Quote:
He has brought:

- veteran presence
- physicality
- solid PK ability
- toughness
- a true defensive defensman's presence in the top-4
did you separate physcallity and toughness on purpose?

Robyn Regehr has demonstrated that he is no longer a top 4 defensemen. It probably took you awhile to recognize the same thing when Rivet was here.

Aside from being a much better body checker and healthier... He's pretty much Craig Rivet.

not criticisizing Regier for making the trade. It was a great deal at the time. And i don't mind it at all, even today with Regehr showing his limitations and lack of fit in the system.


Last edited by vcv: 01-31-2012 at 06:48 PM. Reason: Keep it relevant
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01-31-2012, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
I think that's debatable at this very moment in time - but even if he's not, Sekera and Ehrhoff have both shown to be able to handle big minutes and/or top opposition. Again...Regehr brought a handful of things that were blatantly absent from this unit. Insinuating we would be better with Butler and Byron instead of Regehr is insulting to people who watch him play and have watched the team D as a whole over the past several seasons.

Seems that this bears repeating: THE DEFENSIVE UNIT IS NOT A PROBLEM. The top-6 we have is not the problem of this team, and Regehr isn't a problem of this top-6, which again, is not a problem in and of itself.

The team's problem is up front, plain and simple. Could we ask for some better goaltending? Sure. But when your forwards commit the two biggest, basic overall hockey sins at their position...:

- FAILURE TO SCORE/PRODUCE OFFENSE

- FAILURE TO COMPREHEND DEFENSIVE ZONE RESPONSIBILITY

...your team disintegrates, as we currently are witnessing.

I wasn't intimating that you were a hater. Jame is, though - right, buddy?
Im not a hater. I like everything about the deal to acquire Regehr. I like Regehr as a player. On a contender, who would be a 3rd pairing defensemen, who was kept away from dangerous offensive lines with speed. He would be on the PK. Maybe the veteran leader we all heard about would re-appear on a contender.

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01-31-2012, 04:23 PM
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The cold hard facts, however, paint Regehr as a failure of impressive proportions. Goals Versus Threshold currently ranks Regehr as the 10th worst defenseman in the NHL.
That's what happens when you play a veteran, physical, pk, 3rd pairing defensemen against top scoring lines.

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01-31-2012, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
oh look, another thread defending this team/players/owner/staff against criticism... who would've guessed.

Regehr has NOT lived up to expectations. As advertised? Not the advertisement I saw...



did you separate physcallity and toughness on purpose?

Robyn Regehr has demonstrated that he is no longer a top 4 defensemen. It probably took you awhile to recognize the same thing when Rivet was here.

Aside from being a much better body checker and healthier... He's pretty much Craig Rivet.

Keep drinking the kool aid buffalo....

not criticisizing Regier for making the trade. It was a great deal at the time. And i don't mind it at all, even today with Regehr showing his limitations and lack of fit in the system.
Physicality and toughness aren't the same thing, and Regehr has injected dimensions that have been absent for a long time.

More like, "oh, look, another misguided, attempted shot at a flailing franchise" in which the problem has no relation to the topic being discussed.

Far, far, far from a bust of a trade.

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