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Metro Seattle: NHL, NBA and Arena - Part II

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01-31-2012, 04:25 PM
  #26
Melrose Munch
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Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
Hhm....wouldn't a Canucks fan, want a team in Seattle more (or as equally) as they would want a team in Quebec City?
It would be about the only town, if Seattle was awarded a franchise, where the Canucks would be back home in their own houses....by 100a, after a night game.....and the only town where Canucks fans could see their team, on a day trip, as opposed to overnighting...
1) stop with the periods, unless you take 10 minutes to think between posts.
2) Nominally I would agree but some Canadians are CANADA!!!!!1 no matter what just like members of any country. Me I only support QC first because this broke league needs cash.

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01-31-2012, 04:45 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck View Post
Seattle was having trouble supporting the Supersonics...wouldn't hockey be less popular than basketball there?

Seattle had no problem supporting the Sonics. Seattle had a problem supporting an owner who had no intention of keeping them in Seattle.

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01-31-2012, 04:58 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by gernb View Post
Seattle had no problem supporting the Sonics. Seattle had a problem supporting an owner who had no intention of keeping them in Seattle.

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01-31-2012, 04:59 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Seattle is bigger than Vancouver and an actual sports town unlike Vancouver.
Huh?. Yes, Greater Seattles got about 1M more residents than Vancouver & the Lower Mainland and yes, theyve got both a MLB & an NFL franchise, but to suggest Vancouver isnt a sports town MM?. The minor league Canadians, the Giants, the WhiteCaps, both SFU & UBC's football, basketball & hockey teams & certainly the BC Lions & Canucks are all very well supported. Participatory sports, from Marathons to Ironman Competitions, Boarding, Skiing, Biking; amateur Soccer, Baseball, Hockey & Lacrosse etc boasting big numbers.

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01-31-2012, 05:08 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by gernb View Post
Seattle had no problem supporting the Sonics. Seattle had a problem supporting an owner who had no intention of keeping them in Seattle.
Still, Seattle was near the bottom in the NBA for quite a few years in revenue. Do you think it would be better for Hockey, with 4 major teams in the market?

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01-31-2012, 05:10 PM
  #31
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Hhm....wouldn't a Canucks fan, want a team in Seattle more (or as equally) as they would want a team in Quebec City?
It would be about the only town, if Seattle was awarded a franchise, where the Canucks would be back home in their own houses....by 100a, after a night game.....and the only town where Canucks fans could see their team, on a day trip, as opposed to overnighting...
Certainly a team in Seattle would be convenient for those in Vancouver. That has nothing to do with whether Seattle or Quebec city would be a better place to put a team however.

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01-31-2012, 05:16 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
1) stop with the periods, unless you take 10 minutes to think between posts.
2) Nominally I would agree but some Canadians are CANADA!!!!!1 no matter what just like members of any country. Me I only support QC first because this broke league needs cash.
However some Canadians don't blindly support a team or city just because it's within Canada. For example, not all Calgarians supported the Oilers when they went to the SCF in 2006 and not all Edmontonians supported the Flames in 2004 just because it's "the Canadian team". Vancouverites generally have more in common with Seattle and Portland than Toronto, Montreal, or Quebec City. Do you think there are more Mariners or Blue Jays fans in Vancouver?

If Quebec City got a team, I suspect that most Canucks fans would probably be generally indifferent as Canucks would play the Nordiques v 2.0 once or twice a year. If Seattle got a team and they met the Canucks in the playoffs a couple times...then there would be a rivalry that has the potential to be like the Battle of Alberta or New York in its prime.


Last edited by MuzikMachine: 01-31-2012 at 05:39 PM.
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01-31-2012, 05:16 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Seattle is bigger than Vancouver and an actual sports town unlike Vancouver.
Seattle may be a better sportstown overall, but we're talking hockey here.

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01-31-2012, 05:43 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by MuzikMachine View Post
However some Canadians don't blindly support a team or city just because it's within Canada. For example, not all Calgarians supported the Oilers when they went to the SCF in 2006 and not all Edmontonians supported the Flames in 2004 just because it's "the Canadian team". Vancouverites generally have more in common with Seattle and Portland than Toronto, Montreal, or Quebec City. Do you think there are more Mariners or Blue Jays fans in Vancouver?

If Quebec City got a team, I suspect that most Canucks fans would probably be generally indifferent as Canucks would play the Nordiques v 2.0 once or twice a year. If Seattle got a team and they met the Canucks in the playoffs a couple times...then there would be a rivalry that has the potential to be like the Battle of Alberta or New York in its prime.
Agreed. Most of the anti Vancouver stuff from last year was actually mostly from Edmonton and Eastern Canada.

I would hope there are more mariners fans in Vancouver.

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01-31-2012, 05:46 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck View Post
Seattle may be a better sportstown overall, but we're talking hockey here.
Which is not the be all end to society. And frankly supporting the weakest of the big four is nothing to brag about either. Vancouver had crappy attendance as recently as shortly before the Naslund era. So hockey town? Not like Toronto and Montreal.

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01-31-2012, 05:47 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck View Post
Seattle was having trouble supporting the Supersonics...wouldn't hockey be less popular than basketball there?
It's a bit long (that's what she said), but I honestly suggest anyone that's remotely interested in the business/political side of sports to watch Sonicsgate. Just a downright fantastic documentary about how Seattle lost the Sonics, how the NBA and Bennett had no intention of ever keeping the team there and how they wanted to use the city as an example to show that they wouldn't tolerate older arenas, and how horrible of a job the municipal government did in trying to protect the team.

I don't even like the NBA, but that video alone guaranteed that I'll always root against the Thunder so long as they have their current ownership. It's one thing for a franchise to be lost because of an antagonistic relationship with the locals or because of just a bad business model/economy, but it's entirely different what happened with the Sonics. It was nothing more less then league and ownership collaboration to steal a team from their market.

The whole thing's on YouTube, too:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Seattle is bigger than Vancouver and an actual sports town unlike Vancouver.
Ah, took one full page before the first flame was thrown.

Well done, BoH!

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01-31-2012, 06:13 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
So hockey town? Not like Toronto and Montreal.
No, the fans out here are truly insane. Wolverines. Rabid. Riotous.... it would be dangerous & highly provocative, downright foolish to wear a Leafs, Habs, Flames or Chicago jersey or cap to many a bar in this city. Dont kid yourself. I lived in Toronto & have spent plenty of time in & around Montreal. The fans out west including Edmonton, Calgary & Winnipeg, many a one of them are so far beyond the twist as to make the most ardent Leaflander appear faddish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Ah, took one full page before the first flame was thrown.
Well done, BoH!
Im sure the VPD are rooting for Seattle. All that extra over-time everytime the Totems or Millionaires visit the Roy Rogers Arena... but see?, I can say stuff like that because I live here. Self deprecation's fair n' square, taking shots at another city or its fanbase?. Not exactly Cricket...


Last edited by Killion: 01-31-2012 at 06:19 PM. Reason: typo...
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01-31-2012, 06:23 PM
  #38
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No, the fans out here are truly insane. Wolverines. Rabid. Riotous.... it would be dangerous & highly provocative, downright foolish to wear a Leafs, Habs, Flames or Chicago jersey or cap to many a bar in this city. Dont kid yourself. I lived in Toronto & have spent plenty of time in & around Montreal. The fans out west including Edmonton, Calgary & Winnipeg, many a one of them are so far beyond the twist as to make the most ardent Leaflander appear faddish.
Indeed Killion. During game 7 against Boston last year, people were too afraid to wear their Bruins jerseys.

I suppose we could just ignore that though and pretend that Canada doesn't have true sports cities besides the big two because of our low population. We'll never be as good as our southern overlords.

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01-31-2012, 06:36 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
It's a bit long (that's what she said), but I honestly suggest anyone that's remotely interested in the business/political side of sports to watch Sonicsgate. Just a downright fantastic documentary about how Seattle lost the Sonics, how the NBA and Bennett had no intention of ever keeping the team there and how they wanted to use the city as an example to show that they wouldn't tolerate older arenas, and how horrible of a job the municipal government did in trying to protect the team.

I don't even like the NBA, but that video alone guaranteed that I'll always root against the Thunder so long as they have their current ownership. It's one thing for a franchise to be lost because of an antagonistic relationship with the locals or because of just a bad business model/economy, but it's entirely different what happened with the Sonics. It was nothing more less then league and ownership collaboration to steal a team from their market.

The whole thing's on YouTube, too:





Ah, took one full page before the first flame was thrown.

Well done, BoH!
That is hardly a flame. Go look at the the attendance for the Nucks from 1997-2000. Dead serious.

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01-31-2012, 06:49 PM
  #40
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Okay back on topic

http://mynorthwest.com/384/619433/Sp...han-they-think

Quote:
The sports fans of Seattle have longed to fill the NBA-sized void left in the wake of the departure of the SuperSonics -- and one reporter thinks an answer could be on its way.

The key to bringing the NBA back to Seattle could rest within another major league sport -- the NHL, a league that finds itself in ownership turmoil. Scott Burnside, an NHL writer for ESPN.com, joined "The Kevin Calabro Show" on 710 ESPN Seattle on Monday to talk about the turnover in NHL ownership and what it could mean for Seattle.

"They've had bad luck," Burnside said. "They've had owners that have run afoul of the law. They've had owners who simply didn't have the financial wherewithal that the league was led to believe that they had. My sense is, it's just the cost of being a professional sports league ... that in some parts of the United States struggles to maintain a foothold."

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01-31-2012, 06:50 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
It's sports, what are you getting so worked up for? Quebec lost a team to Comcast remember?

Just wait and see.
Because they were my favorite team when I was a kid and I've waited for this for the past 17 years! Exactly, it's sports... if I can love one team, I can hate another. This is worth getting worked up about!

But to be honest, I think it's smoke and mirrors. The Coyotes are 99 percent going to Quebec.

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01-31-2012, 06:52 PM
  #42
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Not to be a D-Bag, but if Seattle ends up with the Coyotes instead of QC I will hate them for as long as it takes for QC to get a team. I have nothing at all against Seattle and I presume they'd be a decent NHL city, but that would p... me off royal.


i live in Vancouver and i want a team in Seattle before Quebec

I do want both locations to have teams though however it would be much easier(and cheaper) for me to go see live games

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01-31-2012, 06:56 PM
  #43
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That is hardly a flame. Go look at the the attendance for the Nucks from 1997-2000. Dead serious.
So the fact that even the canucks can have a period of bad attendance is a good reason for Seattle to get a team? Logic dictates the opposite!

Now let's connect the dots:

Average Canucks Attendance by year:
1996/97: 17,320 (8th in the nhl)
1997/98: 16,986 (9th in the nhl)
1998/99: 15,803 (22nd in the nhl)
1999/00: 14,642 (23rd in the nhl)
2000/01: 17,017 (15th in the nhl)

Canucks Coach by year:
1996/97: Tom Renney
1997/98: Mike Keenan
1998/99: Mike Keenan
1999/00: Marc Crawford
2000/01: Marc Crawford

Canucks Captain by Year:
1996/97: Trevor Linden
1997/98: Mark Messier
1998/99: Mark Messier
1999/00: Mark Messier
2000/01: Markus Naslund

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01-31-2012, 06:56 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
Because they were my favorite team when I was a kid and I've waited for this for the past 17 years! Exactly, it's sports... if I can love one team, I can hate another. This is worth getting worked up about!

But to be honest, I think it's smoke and mirrors. The Coyotes are 99 percent going to Quebec.
Of course it is. Just wait and see anything can happen.

Or you could support the team staying in Phoenix.

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01-31-2012, 06:57 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck View Post
So the fact that even the canucks can have a period of bad attendance is a good reason for Seattle to get a team? Logic dictates the opposite!

Now let's connect the dots:

Average Canucks Attendance by year:
1996/97: 17,320 (8th in the nhl)
1997/98: 16,986 (9th in the nhl)
1998/99: 15,803 (22nd in the nhl)
1999/2000: 14,642 (23rd in the nhl)
2000/2001: 17,017(15th in the nhl)

Canucks Coach by year:
1996/97: Tom Renney
1997/98: Mike Keenan
1998/99: Mike Keenan
1999/2000: Marc Crawford
2000/2001: Marc Crawford

Canucks Captain by Year:
1996/97: Trevor Linden
1997/98: Mark Messier
1998/99: Mark Messier
1999/2000: Mark Messier
2000/2001: Markus Naslund
No, that was not my point at all. My point was Vancouver had less attendance during a downturn in the team and Montreal and Toronto fans go no matter what. The past 5 years until this year the leafs have been crap yet the ACC was full.

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01-31-2012, 07:01 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
Hhm....wouldn't a Canucks fan, want a team in Seattle more (or as equally) as they would want a team in Quebec City?
It would be about the only town, if Seattle was awarded a franchise, where the Canucks would be back home in their own houses....by 100a, after a night game.....and the only town where Canucks fans could see their team, on a day trip, as opposed to overnighting...
exactly

in May i couldn't afford to buy playoff tickets in Vancouver so it was cheaper for me to buy a plane ticket + hotel room +playoff tickets and watch the game in San Jose then driving 25 mins downtown

THATS CRAZY!!!!

and thats why I prefer Seattle to get a team

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01-31-2012, 07:01 PM
  #47
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That could be the worst metaphor I've ever seen right there.

If you really wanted to compare the Quebec vs. Seattle with a drop-dead woman, it would be the following:



The drop-dead beauty (the NHL) has the choice between getting a well-paid job as a secretary in Quebec where she is sure to get 60k a year guaranteed for at least decade in a company that would love having one.

OR

She can pursue her lifelong dream of becoming a supermodel (expansion in the US, Growing the game) in Seattle, where she's not certain on finding an agent and if her career will take off. If she fails, she's going to be homeless and will probably fall into drugs and alcohol. However, if she succeed, all bets are off and she could become a multi-milionnaire. We also have to consider that a supermodel career doesn't always last, especially if there's another beauty pageant from the past that comes back to town (NBA's Sonics)


Your metaphor is pretty good, BUT: let's not forget that 7 of the top 8 NHL teams in terms of per game revenues are Canadian. Probably 8 of the top 9 with Winnipeg. And presumably 9 of the top 10 if Quebec gets the Coyotes. It'd be like if two chicks want to go home with you - one is impossibly hot but quite possibly kind of disappointing in the sack, whereas the other is cute but amazing beneath the sheets.

I really hope the league wises up enough to go with the sure bet rather than the pipe dream.

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01-31-2012, 07:04 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Seattle is bigger than Vancouver and an actual sports town unlike Vancouver.
Seattle isn't a sports town its a FOOTBALL town(which city in the USA isn't????)....go check out KING5 news they had a special on it

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01-31-2012, 07:05 PM
  #49
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i live in Vancouver and i want a team in Seattle before Quebec

I do want both locations to have teams though however it would be much easier(and cheaper) for me to go see live games
Dude, that's legit. I feel the same way you do, just the other way round. It's nothing personal against Seattle - looks like an awesome city and they have shown amazing support for the Sounders (I'm also an MLS fan).

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01-31-2012, 07:06 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
No, that was not my point at all. My point was Vancouver had less attendance during a downturn in the team and Montreal and Toronto fans go no matter what. The past 5 years until this year the leafs have been crap yet the ACC was full.
Perhaps if Vancouver had nearly twice its population (like Montreal has) or more than twice its population had (like Toronto has) it would have been able to sell the 3,000-4,000 more seats a game required to sell out during its worst era.

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