HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Canucks looking to package F Mason Raymond for top tier player

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-01-2012, 02:59 PM
  #276
Ho Borvat
Registered User
 
Ho Borvat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,355
vCash: 500
We have to keep in mind it was 2 seasons ago Raymond was producing at a 1st line level.

Hell Samuelsson had 1st line production last season.

A first line player doesn't neccessarily mean a star player, but could be a player a lot of fans consider average.

It may also be a potential Raymond for older UFA type player.

It doesnt neccessarily mean Perry/Nash coming to Van.

Ho Borvat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2012, 02:59 PM
  #277
Reign Nateo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,416
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
Rodin is the new Sergei Shirokov in Canucksland. It's hopeless to try and argue that he's not a future superstar forward who may or may not be better than Jordan Eberle.
This is not true at all. Extreme hyperbole.

Reign Nateo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2012, 03:01 PM
  #278
just22
meat and taters
 
just22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,018
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spezza19 View Post
So what if he's 20 in the Q, what the hell is your point? He was just drafted LAST season. Burrows was playing in the freaking ECHL when the Canucks signed him. Many players are a little beyond their "prospect" years playing in god knows where when a team finally decides to take a chance on him. 6th round picks pan out sometimes, so why can't a third rounder?

Also, I never said he can be compared to Lucic. I said he's got a similar frame to Lucic and at 20 still has plenty of time to add size to his frame and put on more muscle. Did not say anything about them playing similar styles. I saw the 20 PIM.


Rodin is a better prospect really? Drafted 3 years ago with not as much as a sniff at the NHL level? A better prospect with his whopping 4 goals and 16 points in 32 games in the AHL? Or how about his wildly impressive 31 points in 89 games over 2 seasons in the SEL? Maybe he'll be good enough to make the 2014/2015 Canucks.

On to Labate: Drafted in the fourth round last year, after Grenier. He's playing college hockey which is no better or further along than the Q and he's put up 18 points in 26 games which is alright but nothing special. Exactly what is so impressive about him?

Lastly let's touch on Sweatt: Oh wow this one is too easy. Sweatt was drafted in 2007....going on FIVE years and he has managed to play two games in the NHL.
The Blackhawks let him go as they gave him a while to prove himself and he was just average in the NCAA with Colorado College. His best season......15 goals and 33 pts in 39 games in 09/10. Than he finally gets up to the next level and puts up 19 goals and 46 pts n 80 games with the Moose last season. WOW!

This is your so called "knowledge"? Dude, do you ever check stats or you just get a kick out of running your mouth and sounding cool. So a point per game in the Q, even in the playoffs doesn't impress you but the numbers that those 3 put up blow you away? That's too funny!
Maybe at some point last season Grenier was behind all of those guys, but he's clearly surpassed them on the chart and is having a very solid season.

And the funniest part of all? I don't need to know any of this stuff, the Canucks are not my team so as if you're getting on me for being slightly inaccurate.

But after I decided to really look into this to see if you were right, you look like a fool and I showed you up on your own team.

Move along sir!


another case of someone only looking at stats to make their assessments

firstly, the Q is not even close in terms of competition to college hockey, yet labate is putting up solid numbers for an 18 year old freshman... very few freshman players score a lot of points (although labate is playing on the top line with zengerle)

rodin is coming off shoulder injury and played in the SEL last year... putting up 0.5 ppg against men is nothing to scoff at

grenier is a project, did not impress at all during rookie camp

you're seriously going to try and assess prospects solely on stats, you're going to look like an idiot... and speaking of stats, grenier stats aren't impressive at all - playing in the Q, being 20 and all, and yet he's barely ppg

you clearly know nothing

just22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2012, 03:21 PM
  #279
KISSland
Registered User
 
KISSland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,682
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hb11xchamps View Post
Hearing on the Caps board that McPhee was in Vancouver last night to scout the game. Maybe a deal around Raymond+ for Semin? Semin on the same line as the Sedins would be pretty sick
All I would like out of Washington that could be possible would be Wideman and Knuble.

I'd offer Raymond, Sauve, and a 2nd for Wideman

We would need to ditch out Alberts. So we can pick up a forward on the third line but this roster would be an incredibly balanced team.

KISSland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2012, 03:24 PM
  #280
arsmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 16,334
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spezza19 View Post
Where in my comment did I saying close to saying he is a top prospect. He is a solid prospect and one of the Canucks top prospects, but that is really not saying too much. Rather, goes to show how thing the Canucks prospect pool really is.

Now I am not sure why a Sens fan is educating a Canucks fan on your prospects but I guess it's just natural for me since I am a huge hockey fan in general and try to know all teams.

You sure you aren't underrating Grenier a little bit? Yes, he was picked in the third round but it looks like it already could have been a steal. The only other forward prospects the Canucks have that are ahead of Grenier are Jensen and Schroeder.

Kid is a beast, 6'5, 205, if he were to fill out and add some size, he'd Milan Lucic light.

His first season in the Q last year he put up 24 pts in 31 games, than followed that up in the playoffs with 16 pts in 15 games.

Now this season, on the Mooseheads who are one of the top teams in the league he's continued to develop strongly with 19 goals and 48 pts in 44 games.

That's pretty damn solid! Gotta say it's quite strange that he never gets mentioned with those stats, which are right behind teammate and heavily hyped Nathan MacKinnon.
Lucic-lite would generally mean that there is a physical dimension along with the big body.

You have never seen Grenier play if you've made a comment like this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spezza19 View Post
So what if he's 20 in the Q, what the hell is your point? He was just drafted LAST season. Burrows was playing in the freaking ECHL when the Canucks signed him. Many players are a little beyond their "prospect" years playing in god knows where when a team finally decides to take a chance on him. 6th round picks pan out sometimes, so why can't a third rounder?

Also, I never said he can be compared to Lucic. I said he's got a similar frame to Lucic and at 20 still has plenty of time to add size to his frame and put on more muscle. Did not say anything about them playing similar styles. I saw the 20 PIM.


Rodin is a better prospect really? Drafted 3 years ago with not as much as a sniff at the NHL level? A better prospect with his whopping 4 goals and 16 points in 32 games in the AHL? Or how about his wildly impressive 31 points in 89 games over 2 seasons in the SEL? Maybe he'll be good enough to make the 2014/2015 Canucks.

On to Labate: Drafted in the fourth round last year, after Grenier. He's playing college hockey which is no better or further along than the Q and he's put up 18 points in 26 games which is alright but nothing special. Exactly what is so impressive about him?

Lastly let's touch on Sweatt: Oh wow this one is too easy. Sweatt was drafted in 2007....going on FIVE years and he has managed to play two games in the NHL.
The Blackhawks let him go as they gave him a while to prove himself and he was just average in the NCAA with Colorado College. His best season......15 goals and 33 pts in 39 games in 09/10. Than he finally gets up to the next level and puts up 19 goals and 46 pts n 80 games with the Moose last season. WOW!

This is your so called "knowledge"? Dude, do you ever check stats or you just get a kick out of running your mouth and sounding cool. So a point per game in the Q, even in the playoffs doesn't impress you but the numbers that those 3 put up blow you away? That's too funny!
Maybe at some point last season Grenier was behind all of those guys, but he's clearly surpassed them on the chart and is having a very solid season.

And the funniest part of all? I don't need to know any of this stuff, the Canucks are not my team so as if you're getting on me for being slightly inaccurate.

But after I decided to really look into this to see if you were right, you look like a fool and I showed you up on your own team.

Move along sir!
Overager in the "Q" with hovering around a PPG is not very good. That's the point.

To me it seems like you are looking at draft position, size and stat sheets to make your claims.

Grenier is a project at best, intriguing skill set combined with size and skating, not quite sure he has the head for an NHLer (floats, no effort to improve his two way game, lacks intensity etc).

On to Labate: Leading scorer in the WCHA for 93' born freshmen. Again, you are comparing the draft positions of said players....while you're at it look at the pre-draft rankings!

Rodin is a better prospect "bar none" looking at the stat lines and concluding who is better is silly. Clearly have ZERO knowledge of this player at all, just a quick google search for some stats.

Billy Sweatt is a lot closer to the NHL than Grenier is.

Your spiel about looking at stats and "sounding cool" comes off as if you are 13 years old.

Your rant wasn't really worth responding to, but I just thought I'd bring to your attention that sometimes the stat sheet doesn't tell the whole story.

Scouting players this way isn't recommended.

edit* thanks for the comment about sounding cool, it was the purpose of the post.

arsmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2012, 03:26 PM
  #281
dave babych returns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,358
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
Rodin is the new Sergei Shirokov in Canucksland. It's hopeless to try and argue that he's not a future superstar forward who may or may not be better than Jordan Eberle.
I've never seen anyone make that claim.

dave babych returns is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2012, 03:31 PM
  #282
YogiCanucks
Registered User
 
YogiCanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Vancouver BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Figz14 View Post
All I would like out of Washington that could be possible would be Wideman and Knuble.

I'd offer Raymond, Sauve, and a 2nd for Wideman

We would need to ditch out Alberts. So we can pick up a forward on the third line but this roster would be an incredibly balanced team.
Workable but the Canucks would need another top 9 player too.

YogiCanucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2012, 04:45 PM
  #283
BigZ65
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,757
vCash: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spezza19 View Post
In what world does Mike Gillis consider Raymond+Schneider plus some throw in depth d-man as a proper package for a top tier player?

Raymond is a 40-50 point guy, Schneider COULD be a legit starting goalie for a team in need but not sure a GM is going to be banking on potential alone.

I mean it is a start for sure, but you're going to have GM's putting their top prospects on the table. Schroeder, Jensen or Grenier would absolutely have to be included.
I don't know about that. If someone wants to move a "top-tier" guy, they aren't going to get "top-tier" coming back, or at least very rarely. Recent trades involving Phaneuf, Thornton, even Heatley would suggest that. I'm sure all the Ottawa fans were gung-ho on Michalek when the Heatley trade saga was on.

Schneider would be the best return anyone has got for a "top-tier" player on the block in a looong time. You wouldn't have to bank on potential, he's got a .930 save % in 45 games over the last 2 seasons. There are a lot of goalies on long-term deals who haven't performed up to that standard for any period.

BigZ65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:18 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.