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Tuomo Ruutu could be dealt this week

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Old
02-01-2012, 05:59 PM
  #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by untouchable21 View Post
I have this feeling that he either ends up in Florida or San Jose. Probably cost a decent prospect and a 2nd.

Something like Donskoi from the Panthers or Nieto from the Sharks.


No way the Hurricanes get a Kreider or JT Miller type prospect like some are suggesting.

I dont see the Panthers as buyers at all. With the major shock theyve been, I dont see Talon expending assets on a UFA to make the playoffs. I think they'll do very little at the deadline. Any asset they acquire will be under contract beyond this season (or not yet drafted)

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02-01-2012, 06:32 PM
  #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
Don't see Ruutu as the answer for the Rangers. They need another pure sniper.

And stop suggesting Kreider or Miller for Ruutu from the Rangers. You're not getting them no matter what ass-backwards logic you try to use or twist to justify it.
Posters like you that get threatened by a trade offer, which isn't even a trade offer, amuse me. Do you think that I have any idea what kind of negotiations are going on behind closed doors? Do you think that anything that I say here will have any impact on the return for Ruutu? But no, by all means act protective and definitive over assets that you have no control over. If they get traded, they'll be traded and you'll like it if the Rangers continue to win and Ruutu plays a big part should something like that even happen.

You're not getting Kreider he's miiiiiiiiiiine all miiiiiiiine! Please. There are only two parties that will decide Ruutu's value. Carolina and the team that lands him. What anybody else has to say, myself included, is moot.

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02-01-2012, 06:37 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by KneelbeforeNeal View Post
Try to make a list of 5 teams in the league where Ruutu wouldn't be on one of the top 2 lines.


It seems everyone here thinks though that a 1st + an A prospect is too much for him, and I agree. But everyone seems to think a 2nd + a B prospect is a fair price, so maybe the value lies somewhere in between.
This man makes sense. I see Ruutu going for a 1st + a B prospect or an A prospect plus a 2nd.

Ruutu had 309 hits last season while scoring 57 points. There is only one forward who had more hits than Ruutu in the entire league and that was Clutterbuck who scored an underwhelming 34 points. Ruutu is a hitting machine who can still produce 2nd line points and play responsible defensively. He's the perfect forward for playoff hockey.

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02-01-2012, 06:38 PM
  #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by untouchable21 View Post
It looks like the Coyotes are going to be sellers and depending on what kind of forward a team is looking for, wouldn't surprise me if more teams covet Ray Whitney more than Ruuttu. Whitney brings with him the experience of being there and winning it all.
It's going to depend a lot upon what kind of player the team in question needs. Lots of GM's have this idea of the ideal deadline rental that fits more with the image of what Ruutu represents than what Whitney does. Teams can be really "chemistry conscious". The thing about what Ruutu constitutes is safety. Even if he totally sputters offensively, you can still shift him with confidence and justify his value to the lineup. That isn't the case with Whitney. If he struggles with the transition or fails to meet offensive expectations, he's not helping your team at all. He's anti-physicality and plays a more "regular season" style perimeter game. Not trashing Ray at all because he's a fantastic player, but the gap in contributions away from the puck are just as glaring as the difference between Ray and Tuomo offensively. I think especially considering the way the Bruins won last year, it's fresh in the minds of GM's that you can out tough skill if your toughness is consistent.

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02-01-2012, 06:45 PM
  #330
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come to the sharks please.

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02-01-2012, 07:32 PM
  #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
Posters like you that get threatened by a trade offer, which isn't even a trade offer, amuse me. Do you think that I have any idea what kind of negotiations are going on behind closed doors? Do you think that anything that I say here will have any impact on the return for Ruutu? But no, by all means act protective and definitive over assets that you have no control over. If they get traded, they'll be traded and you'll like it if the Rangers continue to win and Ruutu plays a big part should something like that even happen.

You're not getting Kreider he's miiiiiiiiiiine all miiiiiiiine! Please. There are only two parties that will decide Ruutu's value. Carolina and the team that lands him. What anybody else has to say, myself included, is moot.
Sather and the various Ranger beat writers have indicated that Kreider was off the table when better players who weren't upcoming UFA's were being talked about, so it's a reasonable assumption that Kreider wouldn't be on the table for Ruutu. Furthermore since the lockout Sather hasn't been in the business of trading top prospects at all. I'd say its much more about knowing your team than feeling threatened.

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02-01-2012, 07:40 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
Ray Whitney has a NMC.

And the last time he was an UFA with a NTC/NMC, he opted to stay put so that he could stay with his family.

Ray Whitney the hockey player has slightly more value then Ruutu (and even that would be contested, taking into account Ruutu's grit vs. Whitney's soft style of play), but his NMC kills his value.
While he is definitely not a grinder, I would hardly consider Whitney to be a "soft" player.

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02-01-2012, 07:45 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by untouchable21 View Post
It looks like the Coyotes are going to be sellers and depending on what kind of forward a team is looking for, wouldn't surprise me if more teams covet Ray Whitney more than Ruuttu. Whitney brings with him the experience of being there and winning it all.
The yotes are 3 points out of a playoff spot. It's a little early to call them sellers.

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02-01-2012, 07:52 PM
  #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KneelbeforeNeal View Post
Try to make a list of 5 teams in the league where Ruutu wouldn't be on one of the top 2 lines.
Off the top of my head:

Boston (Seguin, Marchand, Bergeron, Horton, Krejci, Lucic)
SJ (Thornton, Marleau, Couture, Pavelski, Clowe, Havlat)
NYR (B. Richards, Gaborik, Stepan, Callahan, Anisimov/Hagelin, Dubinsky)
Philly (Giroux, Jagr, Hartnell, Briere, Voracek, Simmonds)
St. Louis (Backes, Oshie, Perron, Steen, MacDonald, Berglund)
Edmonton (Hall, RNH, Eberle, Smyth, Gagner, Hemsky)
Buffalo (Vanek, Pominville, Roy, Stafford, Ennis, Gerbe/Adam)
Washington (Ovechkin, Semin, Backstrom, Johansson, Laich, Brouwer)

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02-01-2012, 07:53 PM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
It's going to depend a lot upon what kind of player the team in question needs. Lots of GM's have this idea of the ideal deadline rental that fits more with the image of what Ruutu represents than what Whitney does. Teams can be really "chemistry conscious". The thing about what Ruutu constitutes is safety. Even if he totally sputters offensively, you can still shift him with confidence and justify his value to the lineup. That isn't the case with Whitney. If he struggles with the transition or fails to meet offensive expectations, he's not helping your team at all. He's anti-physicality and plays a more "regular season" style perimeter game. Not trashing Ray at all because he's a fantastic player, but the gap in contributions away from the puck are just as glaring as the difference between Ray and Tuomo offensively. I think especially considering the way the Bruins won last year, it's fresh in the minds of GM's that you can out tough skill if your toughness is consistent.
I agree with most of what you said, but if it is a team like the Bruins, an acquisition of Whitney would not be for adding grit as they are not lacking in that department. Essentially he'd be taking on the sort of role Recchi played. Despite his penchant for providing offense, he will not hurt you defensively.

If they're looking for a defenseman as well, maybe a deal involving both Whitney and Aucoin.

Just throwing stuff out there.

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02-01-2012, 07:53 PM
  #336
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Ruutu is a top six player on the Rangers.

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02-01-2012, 07:57 PM
  #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Ruutu is a top six player on the Rangers.
For the first 20 minutes anyway. No guarantees with Torts.

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02-01-2012, 08:00 PM
  #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Ruutu is a top six player on the Rangers.
I know you guys are down on Anisimov, but I'd take him 10 time out of 10 over Ruutu. AA's possession numbers are great.

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02-01-2012, 08:01 PM
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TehJuxtaposer View Post
Off the top of my head:

Boston (Seguin, Marchand, Bergeron, Horton, Krejci, Lucic)
SJ (Thornton, Marleau, Couture, Pavelski, Clowe, Havlat)
NYR (B. Richards, Gaborik, Stepan, Callahan, Anisimov/Hagelin, Dubinsky)
Philly (Giroux, Jagr, Hartnell, Briere, Voracek, Simmonds)
St. Louis (Backes, Oshie, Perron, Steen, MacDonald, Berglund)
Edmonton (Hall, RNH, Eberle, Smyth, Gagner, Hemsky)
Buffalo (Vanek, Pominville, Roy, Stafford, Ennis, Gerbe/Adam)
Washington (Ovechkin, Semin, Backstrom, Johansson, Laich, Brouwer)
Ruutu EASILY beats out Berglund, Gagner, Ennis and Gerbe, Brouwer and arguably Laich also. He is a top 6 forward on most teams.

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02-01-2012, 08:02 PM
  #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TehJuxtaposer View Post
Off the top of my head:

Boston (Seguin, Marchand, Bergeron, Horton, Krejci, Lucic)
SJ (Thornton, Marleau, Couture, Pavelski, Clowe, Havlat)
NYR (B. Richards, Gaborik, Stepan, Callahan, Anisimov/Hagelin, Dubinsky)
Philly (Giroux, Jagr, Hartnell, Briere, Voracek, Simmonds)
St. Louis (Backes, Oshie, Perron, Steen, MacDonald, Berglund)
Edmonton (Hall, RNH, Eberle, Smyth, Gagner, Hemsky)
Buffalo (Vanek, Pominville, Roy, Stafford, Ennis, Gerbe/Adam)
Washington (Ovechkin, Semin, Backstrom, Johansson, Laich, Brouwer)
I think Vancouver (Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, Booth, and Higgins), Detriot (Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Cleary, Bertuzzi, and Holmstrom), LA (Kopitar, Richards, Brown, Gagne, Williams, and Penner), Pittsburgh (Crosby, Malkin, Kunitz, Neal, Sullivan, and Staal/Dupuis), Chicago (Toews, Kane, Sharp, Hossa, Stalberg, and Morrison) have their top-6 set for the playoffs too (I'm assuming everyone is healthy by the playoffs by the way).

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02-01-2012, 08:02 PM
  #341
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For soft teams like Buffalo and Washington, Ruutu would be a top six player just for some added grit in the Top 6.

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02-01-2012, 08:05 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by BigDmitriy View Post
I think Vancouver (Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, Booth, and Higgins), Detriot (Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Cleary, Bertuzzi, and Holmstrom), LA (Kopitar, Richards, Brown, Gagne, Williams, and Penner), Pittsburgh (Crosby, Malkin, Kunitz, Neal, Sullivan, and Staal/Dupuis), Chicago (Toews, Kane, Sharp, Hossa, Stalberg, and Morrison) have their top-6 set for the playoffs too (I'm assuming everyone is healthy by the playoffs by the way.
I debated over Vancouver and finally decided on Ruutu over Higgins, but either way, Bertuzzi, Cleary, and Holmstrom are not top-6 forwards in any sense of the word (you forgot Filppula though), Ruutu is better than Penner and Gagne is injured, I'd take Ruutu over Sullivan, Stalberg, and Morrison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColeMPV View Post
Ruutu EASILY beats out Berglund, Gagner, Ennis and Gerbe, Brouwer and arguably Laich also. He is a top 6 forward on most teams.
Did I miss the part where Gagner, Laich, and Berglund are centers and Ruutu is a wing? I'll give you Gerbe and Brouwer maybe, but I'd take Ennis over Ruutu every time.

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02-01-2012, 08:10 PM
  #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDmitriy View Post
I think Vancouver (Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, Booth, and Higgins), Detriot (Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Cleary, Bertuzzi, and Holmstrom), LA (Kopitar, Richards, Brown, Gagne, Williams, and Penner), Pittsburgh (Crosby, Malkin, Kunitz, Neal, Sullivan, and Staal/Dupuis), Chicago (Toews, Kane, Sharp, Hossa, Stalberg, and Morrison) have their top-6 set for the playoffs too (I'm assuming everyone is healthy by the playoffs by the way).
Filppula is in front of Holmstrom, but Ruutu could take Cleary's place pretty easily the way Cleary's been playing lately.

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02-01-2012, 08:10 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by TehJuxtaposer View Post
I know you guys are down on Anisimov, but I'd take him 10 time out of 10 over Ruutu. AA's possession numbers are great.
how about having both....I still think Ruutu is had for a 2nd and a mid level prospect.....maybe add a late pick to that

Ruutu, Stepan, Gaborik
Dubinsky, Ricahrds, Callahan
Hagelin, Boyle ,Anisimov
Rupp, Mitchell/Fedotenko, Prust

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02-01-2012, 08:15 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by BigDmitriy View Post
I think Vancouver (Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, Booth, and Higgins), Detriot (Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Cleary, Bertuzzi, and Holmstrom), LA (Kopitar, Richards, Brown, Gagne, Williams, and Penner), Pittsburgh (Crosby, Malkin, Kunitz, Neal, Sullivan, and Staal/Dupuis), Chicago (Toews, Kane, Sharp, Hossa, Stalberg, and Morrison) have their top-6 set for the playoffs too (I'm assuming everyone is healthy by the playoffs by the way).
on the Pens, Ruutu's an upgrade on wing over both Dupuis & Sullivan.

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02-01-2012, 08:21 PM
  #346
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Originally Posted by TehJuxtaposer View Post
I know you guys are down on Anisimov, but I'd take him 10 time out of 10 over Ruutu. AA's possession numbers are great.
I am a huge Anisimov supporter, but Ruutu is better. He's also better than Dubinsky. Both belong on the third line. This would (should) be the lineup with a Ruutu trade (if they're not trading any roster players):

Hagelin-Stepan-Gaborik
Ruutu-Richards-Callahan
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Fedotenko
Rupp-Boyle-Prust

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02-01-2012, 08:31 PM
  #347
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
I am a huge Anisimov supporter, but Ruutu is better. He's also better than Dubinsky. Both belong on the third line. This would (should) be the lineup with a Ruutu trade (if they're not trading any roster players):

Hagelin-Stepan-Gaborik
Ruutu-Richards-Callahan
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Fedotenko
Rupp-Boyle-Prust
Agreed though I could see the top 3 LWs being a revolving door. Personally I think Ruutu would be a nice fit.

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02-01-2012, 08:35 PM
  #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Ogrodnick View Post
Sather and the various Ranger beat writers have indicated that Kreider was off the table when better players who weren't upcoming UFA's were being talked about, so it's a reasonable assumption that Kreider wouldn't be on the table for Ruutu. Furthermore since the lockout Sather hasn't been in the business of trading top prospects at all. I'd say its much more about knowing your team than feeling threatened.
Well it's fine to "suspect", something.... another all together different to act with defiance to an idea and dismiss it as if you have the power to do so. While it is reasonable to say, "I don't think our GM would go for this based upon X, Y, and Z", it's unreasonable to say, "Our GM will not do this and you're stupid for saying it". What makes it even more hilarious is the fact that I framed it in that very way. That our GM would be interested because of factors X, Y, and Z.... that nothing in terms of value is concrete and that this player may not be "worth it", only to have it met by "stop trying to get Kreider and Miller with your garbage players our GM would never be stupid enough to do that", type nonsense. It's just a peeve of mine on these boards. With all the trades that have come down in the past that have shocked everyone with either how undervalued or overvalued the player was to the community, one would think that many posters would reserve themselves from making absolute statements about player value.

I would say the likelihood of Ruutu fetching a player like Kreider or Miller is equal to the probability of him fetching a low 2nd rounder from a contender and a borderline prospect that Carolina has fallen in love with for whatever reason. We just don't know enough about the market to suggest with any kind of authority what the market looks like for these players until the first trade comes through and even then it still is a moving target to assign value.

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02-01-2012, 08:42 PM
  #349
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Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
Well it's fine to "suspect", something.... another all together different to act with defiance to an idea and dismiss it as if you have the power to do so. While it is reasonable to say, "I don't think our GM would go for this based upon X, Y, and Z", it's unreasonable to say, "Our GM will not do this and you're stupid for saying it". What makes it even more hilarious is the fact that I framed it in that very way. That our GM would be interested because of factors X, Y, and Z.... that nothing in terms of value is concrete and that this player may not be "worth it", only to have it met by "stop trying to get Kreider and Miller with your garbage players our GM would never be stupid enough to do that", type nonsense. It's just a peeve of mine on these boards. With all the trades that have come down in the past that have shocked everyone with either how undervalued or overvalued the player was to the community, one would think that many posters would reserve themselves from making absolute statements about player value.

I would say the likelihood of Ruutu fetching a player like Kreider or Miller is equal to the probability of him fetching a low 2nd rounder from a contender and a borderline prospect that Carolina has fallen in love with for whatever reason. We just don't know enough about the market to suggest with any kind of authority what the market looks like for these players until the first trade comes through and even then it still is a moving target to assign value.
Just no buddy. Kreisler truly isn't going anywhere. Definitely not for a rental. Just accept it, deal with it, move on. Miller could be moved but the likelihood that a top 20 pick from 7 months ago gets dealt for a rental is also ridiculously low. But honestly, you just know nothing about Kreider if you think Ruutu had the same odds of fetching him as a 2nd and mid prospect.

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02-01-2012, 08:48 PM
  #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
Just no buddy. Kreisler truly isn't going anywhere. Definitely not for a rental. Just accept it, deal with it, move on. Miller could be moved but the likelihood that a top 20 pick from 7 months ago gets dealt for a rental is also ridiculously low. But honestly, you just know nothing about Kreider if you think Ruutu had the same odds of fetching him as a 2nd and mid prospect.
Thank you for being a breathing example of exactly the kind of ridiculousness that I was referencing in my last post. You couldn't have done any better had it been your specific aim and it's much better than any hypothetical I could have provided.

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