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Artem Anisimov, Christian Thomas and the NYR 2012 1st round pick

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Old
02-01-2012, 04:35 PM
  #26
Gardner McKay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
I agree with you that he is still an unknown commodity which is why its too early to be making claims that he will be a 50+ pt player. That's the point i was trying to make to the other poster. Its just as easy to predict that AA will be a 30 pt 3rd liner as it is to predict he will be a 50+ pts second liner. Currently he's mired in a horrible slump and relegated tot he 4th line.

As it stands, his value is at an all-time low. Best to hold onto him.
As it stands he had a 44 point season in his second year. I don't think its out of the realm of possibility but also it is far from a certainty.

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02-01-2012, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
As it stands he had a 44 point season in his second year. I don't think its out of the realm of possibility but also it is far from a certainty.
He's had plenty of opportunities this year. He played himself off a good line with Gaborik and now onto the 4th line. I often wonder what kind of production Max Pacioretty or Andrei Kostitysn would have playing with Gabby and Richards...

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02-01-2012, 04:50 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by IWantSakicAsMyGM View Post
From the Avalanche, what about something like David Jones for Anisimov? Add a pick from the Avs if needed.

Jones scored 27 goals last year, but is having a rough season in Joe Sacco's dump and chase system. A change of scenery could be what he needs. And he'd add another right hand shot to your lineup.

Anisimov gives the Avs another 2nd/3rd line C who can play the wing and has shown a bit of a scoring touch.
Not sure Jones is a good fit for the Rangers then...we play dump n chase too.

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02-01-2012, 04:50 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Boondock View Post
I'm not really sure what the Rags would be looking for, by looking at your roster maybe a top 6 forward upgrade and a PP specialist Dman?

Would the Rangers be interested in Morrow and Souray for Anisimov, Thomas, 1st?

I'm not a Stars fan so I don't know what they think of a deal like that. I see it breaking down as Anisimov+ for Morrow, and Thomas+ for Souray, the 2 +'s make up the 1st.

That deal has Neil Smith written all over it.....

I would trade a 25-30 pick and a 3rd for at least 1.5 years of Morrow in a heartbeat.

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02-01-2012, 05:12 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Killem Dafoe View Post
i think some people undervalue this package. Anisimov has played a lot on the 4th line. On any other team he would be a second line guy at least potting 40+ points consistently. Thomas can turn out to be a solid second line player as well and is one of our best prospects. throw in a first and there should be a hefty return coming back.
If that were true we'd see star players trading hands with more frequency than we do. Packaging bets together still makes it a gamble.

You're best shot to land a sure thing with this sort of packages is to find someone in one of the three following situations:

1. Find a team with a surplus of assets that's looking to sell what you want, and isn't losing much if none of what you're offering ever pans out.

2. Find a Mike-Milbury-type that's slowly destroying their franchise with their incompetence.

3. Find someone whose back is against the wall to such a degree that they have no other options but to take the risk you're offering them.

Finding one of those is easier said than done. It's more likely that you end up getting a similar risk in return. There aren't 29 Bob Gaineys out there, but if you find one, please pass that info along to Bob Murray.

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02-01-2012, 06:42 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
He's had plenty of opportunities this year. He played himself off a good line with Gaborik and now onto the 4th line. I often wonder what kind of production Max Pacioretty or Andrei Kostitysn would have playing with Gabby and Richards...
He hasn't had th right opportunity. He should be playing 2nd line center between Cally and Dubi. Last season, AA's second, He slid into that role, both Dubi and Cally had their breakout seasons, and that was with Cally missing over 20 games. The line was our best offensive and defensive line by far.

This year Torts is desperate to find a place for Richards. Stepan is playing massively better than Richie, so 1st line C isn't it. Cally and DUbi are seeing dips in their games, and none of the consistency of last season, and everyone that has been put on Richie's left side has gone cold since early December.

Maybe Dubi and Cally having amazing seasons was dumb luck. And maybe the subsequent dip this season (Cally's still putting up almost the same points per game pace as last season, but this season a higher percentage is coming from special teams) is more on Dubi's shoulders. But Richie can't make a pass right now to save his life, and there's a center on the roster that has had excellent success with these two, and led our top unit into their most consistent scoring of the season.

Also lets not forget Gaborik and STepan's hot streaks this season were with AA on the wing. Since AA has come off the wing, both Gabs and Step have been inconsistent.

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Old
02-01-2012, 07:18 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
Gm's can see the bigger picture? Sather did a great job seeing the "bigger picture" with a slumping Wolski, or an enigmatic Zherdev. I agree that Gm's/Scouts are able to see past a recent slump of a player some times, but not all the time.

I see the bigger picture. Which is why I don't agree with shipping him off now. I especially don't agree with trading Thomas either.
If that were the case he would have been bought out at 1/3rd the cap hit this past offseason. A few hundred k cap hit this year and just a couple next. Meanwhile we could have spent 3million on someone worthy. Like maybe keeping Vinny Prospal around?

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02-01-2012, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by SlingshotVv View Post
He hasn't had th right opportunity. He should be playing 2nd line center between Cally and Dubi. Last season, AA's second, He slid into that role, both Dubi and Cally had their breakout seasons, and that was with Cally missing over 20 games. The line was our best offensive and defensive line by far.

This year Torts is desperate to find a place for Richards. Stepan is playing massively better than Richie, so 1st line C isn't it. Cally and DUbi are seeing dips in their games, and none of the consistency of last season, and everyone that has been put on Richie's left side has gone cold since early December.

Maybe Dubi and Cally having amazing seasons was dumb luck. And maybe the subsequent dip this season (Cally's still putting up almost the same points per game pace as last season, but this season a higher percentage is coming from special teams) is more on Dubi's shoulders. But Richie can't make a pass right now to save his life, and there's a center on the roster that has had excellent success with these two, and led our top unit into their most consistent scoring of the season.

Also lets not forget Gaborik and STepan's hot streaks this season were with AA on the wing. Since AA has come off the wing, both Gabs and Step have been inconsistent.
I don't understand what exactly you are saying. Are you saying that AA's slump and sharp dip in production has to do with coaching? Current players? Lack of playing time? Seems to me that all players that are in slumps experience this. If AA was producing he would have earned a spot in the top-2 lines (or even on the 3rd line).

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02-01-2012, 08:19 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
He's had plenty of opportunities this year. He played himself off a good line with Gaborik and now onto the 4th line. I often wonder what kind of production Max Pacioretty or Andrei Kostitysn would have playing with Gabby and Richards...
Anisimov didn't play with Richards. He did spend some time on the line on the line with Stepan and Gaborik where he was Stepans left wing which is not his natural position.

He also spent a decent amount of time with the likes of Boyle Fedentenko and Prust.

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02-01-2012, 08:21 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
If that were the case he would have been bought out at 1/3rd the cap hit this past offseason. A few hundred k cap hit this year and just a couple next. Meanwhile we could have spent 3million on someone worthy. Like maybe keeping Vinny Prospal around?
I was being sarcastic with what I said.

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02-01-2012, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
I agree with you that he is still an unknown commodity which is why its too early to be making claims that he will be a 50+ pt player. That's the point i was trying to make to the other poster. Its just as easy to predict that AA will be a 30 pt 3rd liner as it is to predict he will be a 50+ pts second liner. Currently he's mired in a horrible slump and relegated tot he 4th line.

As it stands, his value is at an all-time low. Best to hold onto him.
What's your opinion on Lars Eller?

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02-01-2012, 08:38 PM
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I'm not proposing the trade cause I don't like the guy or that I don;t think that he can be that 45 point guy FOR the Rangers.

I'm proposing the trade cause I think it can provide us the scoring winger that we so evidently lack on one of our top 2 lines.

Same goes for Christian Thomas, however, I'm not as sold on him as some others are but there's no denying the sniper capabilities.

That said, I truly believe that within the next 1.5-2 years, CT is going to be surpassed on the depth by both Miller AND Fogarty. They are both talented and both have the one thing that makes them leaps and bounds more valuable to the Rangers SIZE.

The first rounder is going to be a late round selection.

All of that out of the way, if the Rangers are looking for a legit upgrade at the top 6 position, then you have to give to get.

It's nice to have a decent prospect pool, it allows for trades like this that do not set the system back significantly.

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02-01-2012, 08:39 PM
  #38
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I only trade Anisimov if it's for an upgrade. I still think there's too much potential there. He needs to be back with Stepan and Gaborik, and Hagelin should not be on the top line. Not skilled or consistent enough offensively to justify giving him those minutes.
Hagelin in 17 less games has more goals and 4 less points. While being a +14.

Better skater. By far. Equally as skilled. Harder worker. Smart.

Hagelin deserves the role more than Anisimov right now.

Anisimov is fine as a third-fourth line center.

Rangers need to add some scoring depth or a defenseman that can improve the PP.

If the Rangers deal Anisimov, they can seek a player like Gaustad or Gordon to center the third-fourth line and take important faceoffs.

If the Rangers want to upgrade, Anisimov is a good chip to use. With Kreider and Miller in the system, trading Anisimov wouldn't be detrimental.

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02-01-2012, 08:55 PM
  #39
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I would be ecstatic to get Anisimov. What would it take from the Sharks?

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02-01-2012, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
I don't understand what exactly you are saying. Are you saying that AA's slump and sharp dip in production has to do with coaching? Current players? Lack of playing time? Seems to me that all players that are in slumps experience this. If AA was producing he would have earned a spot in the top-2 lines (or even on the 3rd line).
It has to do with him being a perfect fit on the second line, but Richards is in his place. Richie's actually having a good passing game as we speak, so no biggie tonight. Anisimov's drop in production has come from not staying with any one unit for more than a game. The only time he's played regularly with any linemates was with Gabby and Stepan. During that time that line was easily our number one. His job on that line was to win battles, be a strong two way guy, and make plays. Gaborik ripped off a ton of goals, and Stepan was getting the puck on his stick with open ice.

AA wasn't scoring so Torts moved him around. He never "started struggling", we needed scoring throughout the line-up and Torts tried getting it by moving AA into other slots.

Dubinsky has played the best hockey of his young career with AA, and so has Callahan. I'm saying Tororella needs to find a place for Richie, and with Stepan being the number 1, it's 2C. But his production hasn't yet been there.

Tonight, Anisimov has been put on the ice for every defensive zone face-off that he could be (minus icings), and has played on 3 lines. Richie, Callahan, Stepan, Gaborik, Boyle, Prust, Mitchell have all played consistently with at least one recurring line-mate all game. AA is on a carousel all night long, as he is every game.


EDIT: make that: has played on 4 lines.

EDIT #2: That's not to be taken as a knock on Torts. AA brings something unique in our line-up, and that's a whole lot of skill, and a guy that stays close to the puck all shift, yet never forgets his defensive responsibilities. It's not like he gets juggled because he's having bad shifts. I almost wonder if Torts and AA have worked this out making him a rover to contribute on different lines as needed.


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Old
02-01-2012, 09:12 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TehJuxtaposer View Post
I would be ecstatic to get Anisimov. What would it take from the Sharks?
Need a top 6 LWer.

Who you got?

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02-01-2012, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Need a top 6 LWer.

Who you got?
I'm dreaming of Pavelski

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02-01-2012, 09:27 PM
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I would be ecstatic to get Anisimov. What would it take from the Sharks?
Pickles?

(Vlasic)

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02-01-2012, 09:30 PM
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Need a top 6 LWer.

Who you got?
I think Clowe could be made available, but he's got all sorts of intangibles that make him far more valuable than what we could get for him. Trading Clowe makes our Top-6 way too soft for my liking. It'd have to be Anisimov ++.

Quote:
Originally Posted by o 16 Avery NYR o View Post
I'm dreaming of Pavelski
No ****ing way. There isn't a player on the Rangers I'd trade Pavelski for straight up. Too much value on that steal of a contract.

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Pickles?

(Vlasic)
No way. Besides, don't the Rangers have enough LHD?

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02-01-2012, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by TehJuxtaposer View Post
I think Clowe could be made available, but he's got all sorts of intangibles that make him far more valuable than what we could get for him. Trading Clowe makes our Top-6 way too soft for my liking. It'd have to be Anisimov ++.



No ****ing way. There isn't a player on the Rangers I'd trade Pavelski for straight up. Too much value on that steal of a contract.



No way. Besides, don't the Rangers have enough LHD?
Not looking at Lefty/Righty.

Sauer could be out for the rest of the season for all we know.

And, in order to get one of our good young forwards, you'd have to give up a good young player in return.

Vlasic for Anisimov is fair.

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02-01-2012, 09:40 PM
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Not looking at Lefty/Righty.

Sauer could be out for the rest of the season for all we know.

And, in order to get one of our good young forwards, you'd have to give up a good young player in return.

Vlasic for Anisimov is fair.
No, it is not. No way. Anisimov can be a quality #2C. But you don't get a 24-year-old 6-year veteren top-2 defenseman on a great contract for that. You may think that's fair, which is understandable because Vlasic is one of the most underrated players in the league, but to someone who has watched him grow and develop and can say that he has been the MVP of a great Sharks team this year over the Marleau's and the Thornton's and the Boyle's, he is virtually untouchable.

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02-01-2012, 09:42 PM
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Well there's virtually no way the Sharks get Anisimov.

You can't expect to get quality for crap.

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02-01-2012, 09:44 PM
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Well there's virtually no way the Sharks get Anisimov.

You can't expect to get quality for crap.
Did I offer crap? No, all I said is that Vlasic is not available.

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02-01-2012, 09:47 PM
  #49
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02-01-2012, 10:10 PM
  #50
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Trading a first is stupid especially if it's for a rental.. this ain't the Red Wings where they can trade a first because they always find great players in the late rounds...Rangers are more than one player away from the Cup...
I'll just say that I was pretty adamant about saying that about the Bruins last year, saying they paid too much to get Kaberle, and the addition of Kaberle wouldn't push them over the edge.

Not saying you'll get the same fortune (or that Kaberle WAS the reason the Bruins won), but trading a 1st, even for a rental for a contending team isn't a huge deal. Plus your cupboard seems pretty nice so far.

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