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Habs lose 3-1. A Centre, a centre, my kingdom for a centre.

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Old
02-01-2012, 07:36 PM
  #351
icerocket
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Lmao @ defending Gomez.

I can only hope Mister Mister isn't as misguided as you.

You know what would benefit our team? Using all that wasted money on Gomez on players that actually/could contribute.

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Old
02-01-2012, 07:40 PM
  #352
SNM87
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Poor Rene Bourque for being stuck playing with Gomer and Pleks

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02-01-2012, 07:56 PM
  #353
Hullois
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post

Actually, I'm really John Lennon. To give people a background, my favorite player on the Habs is Subban. But I argue in favor of Gomez because the misguided whining on this site really gets pathetic after awhile, and I like to show people he isn't as bad as they think. He's not amazing, but he's pretty decent (just overpaid). But when push comes to shove, they go back into their cave with their contract argument, and never come out again. Pretty much what you did, and Lafleur's Guy as well!
He's not pretty decent, he's below average, and his main problem is that he doesn't fit in any "chair", he can't play top 6 minutes because he's not good enough offensively, and he can't play bottom 6 minutes because he lacks grit and size. Now on top of that, you do have to factor in his 7 million cap hit, even if you don't like it.

You're right, he's not a bad hockey player, but when evaluating his contribution to the team compared to how much room he takes under the cap, tu te rend compte que le gars est un criss de boulet.

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02-01-2012, 08:17 PM
  #354
Intense
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P.G. : I'm looking to make a trade Sir

Random GM : Who is on your trade block ?

P.G. : I would like to offer you Mister Gomez, Sir

Random GM : LOL, Are you kidding me !?! That guy hasn't scored in 50+ games

P.G. : Well, our Corsi number with Mister Gomez in the lineup is as good as the last 4 Stanley Cup winner ! Sir !

Random GM : OMFGZZ !!$!%!!! 1st Round Pick + Top Prospect !!%!|%!

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02-01-2012, 08:24 PM
  #355
OneSharpMarble
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You know you are terrible when all your supporters have left to defend you are corsi numbers.

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Old
02-01-2012, 08:25 PM
  #356
Em Ancien
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'Pretty decent' players don't have 50 game scoring droughts.

They also bring more than speed skating through the neutral zone, which leads to mediocre scoring.

Gomez is not a 'pretty decent' player.

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02-01-2012, 08:53 PM
  #357
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The defending of Gomez has become schizophrenic.

Last year was called an aberration and he was gonna be back to his usual somewhat productive self. With his top 6 ice time, he's now on pace for an 0-29-29 season. His goalless inanenniversary is Sunday. A full year, not a single goal...

I'm all for being positive and all, but let's not sugarcoat it : he is a disaster. That is all.

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Old
02-01-2012, 08:57 PM
  #358
hockeyfan2k11
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Cam Ward has more goals in the last year than Gomez. Let that marinate for a minute.

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Old
02-01-2012, 09:08 PM
  #359
WhiskeySeven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
You know you are terrible when all your supporters have left to defend you are corsi numbers.
You know what, even if Gomez has AMAZING corsi numbers - he's still not generating **** all on offense. What's the point of defending him if he's neither scoring nor playmaking?

I'll appreciate the odd shift or two because Gomez really isn't a "bad" hockey player and he's got some wheels but in general he's just a black-hole of production.

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Old
02-01-2012, 09:10 PM
  #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
How's that? Because you've given up before because you had no argument, it doesn't mean I'm embarrassing myself. I think that post showing all his statistics really favored my stance, and no one has yet to discount any of it.

Of course, I know you take it personal when I argue that Gomez isn't as bad as people claim. It's not even an extreme argument, I never said he was amazing

Everyone knows he is overpaid, but he still benefits this team whether you like it or not. End of story. (Ps. I can see you have no argument as usual, congrats!)


Actually, I'm really John Lennon. To give people a background, my favorite player on the Habs is Subban. But I argue in favor of Gomez because the misguided whining on this site really gets pathetic after awhile, and I like to show people he isn't as bad as they think. He's not amazing, but he's pretty decent (just overpaid). But when push comes to shove, they go back into their cave with their contract argument, and never come out again. Pretty much what you did, and Lafleur's Guy as well!
What more argument do I need?
He has not scored a goal in nearly a year.
He gets PP time over other forwards and I don't think he has a PP point this season.
He is useless in the face-off circle.
He is useless defensively.
He has no shot and uses it way too often.
His playmaking skills have deterioated.

The only thing he can do is skate fast and gain the zone. After that he makes questionable decisions and that zone entry is wasted.

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Old
02-01-2012, 09:18 PM
  #361
OneSharpMarble
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
You know what, even if Gomez has AMAZING corsi numbers - he's still not generating **** all on offense. What's the point of defending him if he's neither scoring nor playmaking?

I'll appreciate the odd shift or two because Gomez really isn't a "bad" hockey player and he's got some wheels but in general he's just a black-hole of production.
He is playing like a 3rd/4th line guy who brings energy and pots an assist here and there. That is all that is left for him and could really be replaced with a rookie at a fraction of the price. He is as much of an nhl level player as Enqvist or Leblanc at this point.

I agree that he should not get much over 10 mins a night and should be kept far away from our top 4 wingers.

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Old
02-01-2012, 09:23 PM
  #362
Lafleurs Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
You're regurgitating nonsense that you read from others: Taking up Eller's ice time? Seriously? Eller has been crap lately. The only argument you have is that Gomez hasn't scored a goal in 50 games, and that is including his worst season of his life, and before and after his 30-GAME INJURY.
First, if Eller has been crap then Gomez has achieved a whole new level of excrement. One that produces a smell so bad that it's capable of breaking mirrors. Maybe that explains all the bad luck.

Secondly, I don't care if Eller has been crap or not. He's a kid that actually might have a future here. We should be worrying about THAT aspect of our team rather than fruitlessly trying to resusitate Gomez's career. We should be moving forward but instead we're stuck in neutral with this guy. So he hurts us now AND he hurts our future. Not sure why we keep playing him but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
You brought no facts into the discussion, as I did, supporting your claim. You just make misinformed claims like "we win games in spite of him, not because of him" when the facts are CLEARLY against you on that. Corsi and Fenwick are much better indicators of his play than your "oh my god he hasn't scored in so long!" crap. A player can still play well while not scoring, and my whole argument is based on the fact that he hasn't been as bad as people claim..
Sure I did. You chose to ignore them. Here they are again... 0 goals in close to 50 games. 22 assists in that same time period. Those are facts man. Please pay attention to them because they are a hell of a lot more important than your CORSI stats.

And you're actually proving a point I made long ago. Microstats are not going to give you a great picture of how good a player actually is. They may not be completely useless but they certainly aren't near the value that some claim it is. I'm pretty sure Brett Hull would've had horrible puck possession numbers for example but he's going to be a lot better than those numbers indicate. You're letting microstats run amok here. Gomez is example A of this.

The whole point of microstats is to provide some kind of predictabity in terms of what a players' production will be. They should NOT be a substitution for production man. If a guy's CORSI numbers suck but he produces consistently, then for the love of God forget CORSI and go with the stats. But Gomez doesn't produce so you cling to CORSI as a means of defending him. You are letting the tail wag the dog and are so lost in your spreadsheet that you can't see what's going on on the ice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
I easily showed you 6 or 7 different statistics favoring Gomez, and you can only come up with your pathetic "he hasn't scored" and "that rating system is so flawed!" arguments. There is nothing going for you other than that: the stats show that when he is playing for the Habs, they are better than when he isn't. Maybe you should look up what the rating systems tell you, before ranting with your same used-up argument over and over again. You haven't proved anything except he hasn't scored. But you can't disprove that he has played well this season, because you have no evidence backing your claim, which I did.
And your stats don't mean squat. Sorry but they aren't a substitute for how he's produced. As for us having a better record with him in the lineup, I'd say that is coincidental. Sorry but he's not leading us to victories man, he's a passenger and that's why people are upset.

You sit there and say "SEE we have a better record with him in the lineup than without him." I say... so what? Yes, it's a fact (I'm taking your word for it) that our record is better with him in the lineup. That doesn't mean that it's a fact that he's the reason for that record. I have no problem with the facts you brought up there, it's the conclusion you've drawn from those stats that's problematic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
It's like arguing with a child: no matter how much proof you show, they will repeat the same thing over and over until you just give up.
You want to hear something funny? When we traded for Gomez Mathman and I had a similar debate to what we're having now. I noted that Gomez's production had been slipping and was looking like it might be a trend. He screamed that Gomez's had great microstats and it supported him being better in the future. I said the guy would be a 2nd line center at best and he argued that the guy was pretty much a sure thing to produce better than he had.

Fast forward three years later and his production has actually gone from mediocre to horrific. It's even at the point now where you're telling us not to even expect 2nd line production out of him as though that's unrealistic. Even I'm surprised by how much he's sucked.

Look, if we can't rely on him to even be a 2nd line center, then what the hell are you defending him for? Seriously, if he can't produce at a 2nd line level then he's useless to us. Open your eyes to reality and just accept it man. It's not luck, it's just that he's sucked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
You know you are terrible when all your supporters have left to defend you are corsi numbers.
Yup. Hockey is a fluid game. These stats can't accurately reflect how good a player is going to perform on the ice. If Gomez isn't a glaring example of this, I don't know what is.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 02-01-2012 at 09:30 PM.
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Old
02-01-2012, 09:30 PM
  #363
Stradale
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0G in ~1000 minutes of ice-time. 7 500 000$

**** off.

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Old
02-01-2012, 11:24 PM
  #364
Em Ancien
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Hey guys, remember last offseason when some people were saying that last season was an outlier for Gomez?

I think the corsi numbers were brought up too.

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Old
02-01-2012, 11:30 PM
  #365
OneSharpMarble
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
Hey guys, remember last offseason when some people were saying that last season was an outlier for Gomez?

I think the corsi numbers were brought up too.
The only time corsi is ever brought into a conversation is when people try to justify terrible play. Some Edmonton fans would bring it up all the time for Horcoff, what does that tell you?

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Old
02-02-2012, 06:21 AM
  #366
MasterDecoy
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no goals in a year isn't bad luck, it's being awful.

at the very least, gomez can still skate, take the zone, still a decent passer, a good locker-room guy and he's helping the kids (according to dd). but im afraid that as a hockey player, he's done. kaput

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