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Maple Leafs in on James van Riemsdyk

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Old
02-02-2012, 09:03 AM
  #101
tony135420
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Thread title seems to have been worded that way to get a rise out of people.

If you watched the segment and LISTENED, Dreger says (and I'm paraphrasing here) the Leafs may revisit the possibility of a JVR deal.

All this Dreger hate is unwarranted, in this case. Although, recently he has been jumping the gun a bit. Maybe his sources are messing with him . McKenzie is the only guy in that business worth his salt these days.

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02-02-2012, 09:05 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Drur93 View Post
No, two days ago they were tied for 7th. Now they're solely 7th.

Burke has leverage because he has a surplus of defensemen. Nine are competing for six spots, and there's currently a shortage of defensemen around the league.
How many of those 9 are better than the Flyers current top-4 (Timonen, Coburn, Mez, Carle?)

The point made above, I think, is that if a playoff team is looking to bolster their defense with a short-term, playoff-tested addition, there are options out there that are both better and cheaper. If the Flyers make a move for Schenn, it isn't to bolster their squad right now, it's to improve the balance in their system going forward.

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02-02-2012, 09:06 AM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drur93 View Post
No, two days ago they were tied for 7th. Now they're solely 7th.
With games in hand. Right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drur93 View Post
Burke has leverage because he has a surplus of defensemen. Nine are competing for six spots, and there's currently a shortage of defensemen around the league.
Leafs are not the only team with d-men and I do not think there will be a lot of JVR for Schenn type of proposals.

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02-02-2012, 09:06 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
during tonight's game the camera panned to Burke and his phone rang. He looked at it and mouthed:

"Holmgren"

i swear to god
It was staged by Burkie....he's the Master of Misdirection.

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02-02-2012, 09:07 AM
  #105
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[QUOTE=nitroglycerin;43448803]With games in hand. Right?

[QUOTE]

Did you not notice that Ottawa has played 2 more games and only 2 points ahead, plus they play each other Saturday? Leafs could be 6th by Saturday and could overtake 5 soon as well.

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02-02-2012, 09:12 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
But brah... 2 days ago Leafs were out of playoffs while Flyers were in and still in. Yet, Burke in a position of power?
Yes Burke would be in a position of power because I believe that Burke is telling the truth when he says he isn't shopping Schenn meaning if its a JVR for Schenn swap, Philly really wants Schenn and Burke will make them overpay to get him.

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02-02-2012, 09:16 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
How many of those 9 are better than the Flyers current top-4 (Timonen, Coburn, Mez, Carle?)

The point made above, I think, is that if a playoff team is looking to bolster their defense with a short-term, playoff-tested addition, there are options out there that are both better and cheaper. If the Flyers make a move for Schenn, it isn't to bolster their squad right now, it's to improve the balance in their system going forward.
Hard to say. I'd take the Leaf group over the Flyers, even with Pronger in the lineup. I'm sure you feel the same way about the Flyers group.

Schenn would slot into your top four now, and in the future. If you're going for short-term only, you're better off with a guy like Gill.

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02-02-2012, 09:16 AM
  #108
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What does the injured JVR do to help Toronto's playoff hopes?
I agree he doesnt bring us closer, but its about future success not just current. The JVR ticket is 4.5mil next season which is scary considering the future CBA is most likely going to require teams who spend up to the cap to shed some dollars.

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02-02-2012, 09:17 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant123 View Post
Yes Burke would be in a position of power because I believe that Burke is telling the truth when he says he isn't shopping Schenn meaning if its a JVR for Schenn swap, Philly really wants Schenn and Burke will make them overpay to get him.


Weren't there also reports that claimed Burke "covets" JVR?

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02-02-2012, 09:20 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
With games in hand. Right?

Leafs are not the only team with d-men and I do not think there will be a lot of JVR for Schenn type of proposals.
Who cares? Standings are based on points. There's no guarantee a team will win games in hand. They were tied for 7th. Period.

That's fine about there being other teams. This thread is about a reported rumour. That's all. If JVR and Schenn aren't the centerpieces, then it'll be something else that JVR goes for.

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02-02-2012, 09:22 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post


Weren't there also reports that claimed Burke "covets" JVR?
He may, that doesn't mean that he is including Schenn is his proposal though.

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Old
02-02-2012, 09:25 AM
  #112
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I dont see JVR going to Toronto for just Schenn. Toronto will certainly have to add.

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02-02-2012, 09:25 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post



Post you quoted mentioned nothing about JVR's injuries.

I guess they're not relevant then

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Old
02-02-2012, 09:31 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant123 View Post
Yes Burke would be in a position of power because I believe that Burke is telling the truth when he says he isn't shopping Schenn meaning if its a JVR for Schenn swap, Philly really wants Schenn and Burke will make them overpay to get him.
Dreger says something along the lines of Burke/Leafs looking to maybe make another push at JVR. Then everyone on here says well if JVR is being moved to the leafs then obviously it has to be Schenn going back. From that you conclude that the flyers are offering up JVR to the leafs for schenn and burke is reluctant. not very logical if you ask me.

flyers are sitting in 4th with no real threat of dropping any time soon and only a couple pts behind boston and 5 behind the rangers (w/ a home and home coming up against them). trust me when i say that the flyers are not desperate for schenn. there are rentals like gill (who would only cost a 2nd) and Allen (probably marshall + 3rd) among others to be had. as others have said the flyers don't have to sell low (yes trading jvr now during the season he is having with injuries would be selling low) when their are other, arguably better for our needs, individuals out there.

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Old
02-02-2012, 09:38 AM
  #115
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JVR

for

Schenn & Kulemin/or Kadri

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Old
02-02-2012, 09:38 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ITM View Post
goaltenders in the minors given the dearth at that position in Philly. But if possible, Id love if Toronto could also acquire Hovinen should a prospect like Owuya or Scrivens be on the table.
Not to be disagreeable, but with the possibility of Bob getting moved (Bryz cannot be moved without waiving a NMC) within the next year and a half (he will not stay here as a backup), it becomes a troubling question on whether to move Hovinen (who by all reports is playing well). They could move Hovinen and sign a veteran backup. Just something to think about.

Quote:
Maybe something like:

To Philadelphia: L.Schenn, Owuya/Scrivens, TOR '12 4th

To Toronto: JVR, B.Kessel, Hovinen
I would counter with:

Philadelphia: L. Schenn, Kadri

Toronto: JVR, B.Kessel.

The reason for adding Kadri is it evens out more the value between JVR and Schenn, plus Kadri may begin to become a legitimately scary winger right around when Briere's contract expires or perhaps a season before that. Leaving Kessel in allows Burke to indulge his fanboy side of having brothers on the team and he gets to indulge his love of Americans.

People in this thread have left out how Homer and Burke are close friends, which I think adds to the likelihood of a deal happening.

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02-02-2012, 09:49 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drur93 View Post
I haven't gone through this thread since its probably just bickering anyway, but I read in another thread somewhere that Burke was holding out for a first so he could use it as part of a package to acquire Carter. Given that, aside from Kessel/Kaberle, Burke's deals generally don't get leaked, I'm not willing to hold my breath.

That said, I would much rather play JVR in the playoffs than Schenn. Last night was a beautiful example of what Schenn can do when on his game. He manhandled Malkin several times, and helped shut him down both games. I like JVR, but I don't like his contract, his concussion, or his lack of a physical game given his size. Unless Coutourier and Kadri (along with something from Toronto) were added, I think we'd need to see at least a first coming back to the Leafs. It'd be a late first, anyway.

JVR
Coutourier

Schenn
Kadri
MacArthur (or something else)

You're giving up some size and potential, and getting potential and scoring back.
Wouldn't mind seeing Kadri playing for flyers

As long as Wilson is the coach Kadri has no chance in Toronto

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Old
02-02-2012, 09:51 AM
  #118
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i see alot of attacks on dreger here... and theres always lots of attacks on any other rumor guy it seems whenever they get talked about in these forums

i think all it really proves is how little the people making attacks actually understand about how real rumors work

i mean.... lets say player A is actually available from team A... then a responsible gm on team A will call up gms from the other 29 teams and say are you intrested?

if some insider finds out about this call.. he can report that team Z or team U has talked about player A... and it is a legit rumor... however only one of those teams will eventually make a trade for that player

now suppose gm from team J wants to improve his team... he will call up his friends on other teams and talk trade too... and most gms should be trying to improve their team most the time... its their freaking job

so there are tons and tons and tons of legitimate rumors being generated on a daily basis...

now of course an outsider should never be told about any of them... if a real gm ever tells any outsider about interest in a player from another team it is considered tampering. its illegle.

real gms dont have any real reason to tell dreger or anyone else their business anyhow... if they do decide to tell an insider something, its cause it benefits them somehow... its a tool... or an agent might let something slip cause its a tool for them... or some other team official might let something slip for whatever reason they have but they arent the ones making a trade anyhow...

so there will never ever ever be a situation where a gm like burke calls up dreger and says by the way im trading for van rymdyk in 3 days so please let the public know now so that they will understand you are reporting a real trade 3 days ahead of time...

it just is never ever ever ever ever going to happen

but if burke wants to get the public of toronto to be easier on the team as it battles for a playoff... and keep interest high in the team so ratings are high and commercial revenues are high and merchandise sales are high etc etc etc.. then he might easily tell dreger that hes trying to improve the team and wants a big power forward to add to the top 6

and someone else might tell dreger that van rymsdyke is a big power forward that could be available

and someone else might say philly needs a dman.. and toronto has alot of them...

and someone else might say burke and holmgren talked... cause honest to god they are both paid alot of money to talk to other gms and try to improve their team...

so anyone that doesnt think toronto is interested in van rymsdyk is a complete and utter moron

it will ultimately come down to whatever the asking price is... and what they are willing to offer... if they wont offer what philly wants... or if philly wants more then toronto is willing to offer... the trade wont happen

most trades never happen... theres always 100s of more rumors then there are trades... always... the rumors are real cause real gms are really discussing the possibility of a real trade... but very few trades that get discussed will ever happen

god... use your common sense people and stop freaking out if dreger or eklund or anyo of these guys report a rumor that doesnt turn into a trade

the only people that get hurt are the idiots that think dreger or eklund know what trades are going to actually happen.. and i know eklund charges money and claims to have additionaly inside info on that... so give him heck for trying to benefit off of our stupidity if you like... but stop bashing the rumors themselves

i have NO INSIDE INFO AT ALL and even i know toronto would be interested in van rymsdyke at the right price if philly is willing to move him

god almighty this ticks me off

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Old
02-02-2012, 09:53 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew311 View Post
Untrue. Dreger said Burke is going to take another run at JVR, meaning Burke tried once (which was documented by LeBrun) but something got in the way (most likely JVR injury).
2 points.

1. Holmgren dismissed the rumours of Toronto/Phili trading Schenn and JVR

2. JVR was injured after the dismissal of the rumours.

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02-02-2012, 09:54 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
JVR

for

Schenn & Kulemin/or Kadri
Teams are calling Burke, not the other way around.

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02-02-2012, 09:55 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
JVR

for

Schenn & Kulemin/or Kadri
...

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02-02-2012, 09:57 AM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
JVR

for

Schenn & Kulemin/or Kadri
Just that much? I think they need to add Kessel and Lupul..

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Old
02-02-2012, 10:02 AM
  #123
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Some clairification on the "disappointing" JVR

He has had a Cam Impingement for the entire season thus far, which is why he has not been skating at 100%. He then injured his knee and now has a concussion. You can't do anything about injuries, and if you are a Flyers fan, you have seen what he can do when he is 100%, last years playoffs were proof of this.

You can't trade yet another young player away after he just signed a long term deal, especially if the deal hasn't even kicked in yet, makes us look bad and players will be weary of signing those long term deals here.

I for one think its an awful idea to move JVR, hes still super young and has tons of upside.

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02-02-2012, 10:03 AM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Dreger says something along the lines of Burke/Leafs looking to maybe make another push at JVR. Then everyone on here says well if JVR is being moved to the leafs then obviously it has to be Schenn going back. From that you conclude that the flyers are offering up JVR to the leafs for schenn and burke is reluctant. not very logical if you ask me.

flyers are sitting in 4th with no real threat of dropping any time soon and only a couple pts behind boston and 5 behind the rangers (w/ a home and home coming up against them). trust me when i say that the flyers are not desperate for schenn. there are rentals like gill (who would only cost a 2nd) and Allen (probably marshall + 3rd) among others to be had. as others have said the flyers don't have to sell low (yes trading jvr now during the season he is having with injuries would be selling low) when their are other, arguably better for our needs, individuals out there.
I guess I should make myself more clear. What I am saying is that in my opinion if a JVR for Schenn swap happens, it means Philly is desperate for a defenceman since there are some other really good, and probably better, options for Philly to choose from but no deals are getting made or everyone else who they wanted are off the market. Since I believe Burke when he says he isn't shopping Schenn, I think that if a JVR for Schenn swap occurs it is because Philly is contacting Burke about him and Burke will demand more. Burke in the meantime could very well be contacting Philly about JVR but offering other players/picks since he would rather keep Schenn.

Personally I feel that Schenn wouldn't be good for Philly at this time anyway. With a possibility of Pronger back at some time still whether this year or next I think Philly should look at rentals first, especially ones with playoff experience, and not someone locked up for years to come. When Pronger gives word of never playing again that's when you may go after a contract like Schenn's. Not getting anyone is also a good option since Philly has still played fantastic since Pronger went down.

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02-02-2012, 10:03 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Teams are calling Burke, not the other way around.
You don't think that Burke is initiating phone calls as well?

I really don't understand this mentality. Why does it seem like Toronto fans need to constantly tout how sought-after their players are?

Every team is looking to improve--either short-term or long-term. Every GM is making and receiving calls--it's their job.

Where do we get this idea that Burke is somehow the smartest / cagiest guy in whatever room he walks into?

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