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Stewart's next contract

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Old
02-02-2012, 03:05 PM
  #26
mpp9
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Been talked about ad nauseam but with the Blues need for a top 4 LHS/left-side D-man and Stewart continuing to struggle, any interest in Martin if the market for defensemen continues to dry up?

He doesn't possess the physicality you may want, but he can absolutely be a top pairing guy for you and imo, would play his best hockey with an offensive D-man.

He's excellent if he doesn't have to be relied upon to produce offense, which your team with Shattenkirk and Pietro is a good fit. Keep his game simple with forcing turnovers and starting the rush.

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02-02-2012, 03:09 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
But it's not quite that simple. Just because they'd get along without him doesn't mean you want to take a 24 year old out of the lineup and replace him with a very good 18 year old (the first rounder) in development. There are other, better options than doing that, this is what I'm saying. Trade him for JJ, put him in a package for Parise/Ryan/Iginla because it's not like the Blues are in imminent danger of losing anybody in their core to free agency. Those type of players would help the Blues now.
I'm not saying that if the right trade came along you don't make it, just adding that it's not the end of the world should we have to give up Stewart for futures. I think what would be the worst thing to do is trade Stewart for an aging veteran like Iginla. You only have to look at the turn of century Blues for why trading young, cheap pieces for high priced players past their prime is a bad idea.

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02-02-2012, 03:40 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Been talked about ad nauseam but with the Blues need for a top 4 LHS/left-side D-man and Stewart continuing to struggle, any interest in Martin if the market for defensemen continues to dry up?

He doesn't possess the physicality you may want, but he can absolutely be a top pairing guy for you and imo, would play his best hockey with an offensive D-man.

He's excellent if he doesn't have to be relied upon to produce offense, which your team with Shattenkirk and Pietro is a good fit. Keep his game simple with forcing turnovers and starting the rush.
He's playing pretty poorly this year, relatively speaking.

NMC aside, I like Martin and think he would be a good fit here, but I wouldn't deal Stewart for him. The Blues need Stewart to start scoring like he has in the past more than they need to upgrade Colaiacovo into Martin. Regardless of how the rest of this year pans out, I'm pretty high on Stewart moving forward.

About the best the Blues could realistically offer (if they even wanted him at that salary), IMO, is something like Colaiacovo (need to move a LHD body back the other way) + D'Agostini + moderate future value. Pens get a defenseman on an expiring contract who plays a good two-way game, another speedy two-way depth scoring winger (15-20G, 30-45P) on a cheap contract who can fit into the top 6, a decent amount of cap space breathing room moving foward, and something worth about a mid-pick.

I doubt that gets a deal done.


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02-02-2012, 04:12 PM
  #29
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if i am the blues there is no way i spend a minimum of 3.25mil on chris stewart.

simple reason being that if he isn't scoring goals (like this season and stretches when he was with the avs) what does he offer?

the way this team is built, from the coach down, it is not designed for a chris stewart type player.

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02-02-2012, 04:31 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by britishblue View Post
if i am the blues there is no way i spend a minimum of 3.25mil on chris stewart.

simple reason being that if he isn't scoring goals (like this season and stretches when he was with the avs) what does he offer?

the way this team is built, from the coach down, it is not designed for a chris stewart type player.


I have been saying since Hitch arrived that Stewart does not fit the system. His 2 way game is not strong enough. But, there is no way I trade him for prospects or a rental. The Blues have a legitimate chance to win the cup this year. I would package him for a top 4 LH Dman if the opportunity comes. If not, then just keep him and try to move him in the off season. He isn't hurting us, he just isn't helping that much. In the right system, he could be a 30 goal scorer and would be valuable. He needs a playmaking center like Hull did.

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02-02-2012, 05:43 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by ItsOnlytheRiver View Post
I'm not saying that if the right trade came along you don't make it, just adding that it's not the end of the world should we have to give up Stewart for futures. I think what would be the worst thing to do is trade Stewart for an aging veteran like Iginla. You only have to look at the turn of century Blues for why trading young, cheap pieces for high priced players past their prime is a bad idea.
It's not the end of the world, especially given that it would happen in the offseason and Tarasenko would arrive (and likely be cheaper and better). An extra 2013 first and third does affect the pace of things. As exciting as this year is, it's the next 2-3 years following where the Blues should really begin to establish themselves as perennial threats, and that pick would very likely be a late arrival.

Iginla is obviously a little different than Parise/Ryan because there'd be a big salary year, but if the Blues did the due diligence first and established that Iginla wanted to close out his career with a few more Cup pushes and wouldn't demand 7M in the years following, the Blues are just the kind of team he'd help a ton. He's still a 60+ point player who and you can't get around this would truly be a frightening player to throw at the Detroits and Chicagos of the world in the poststeason on top of what they currently have. They paid Kariya 6M for three years, and they might be willing to swallow 7M for one year of Iginla IF they did the diligence and discovered he'd take that 3 x ~3.5M to finish his career on a Cup threat team. This came up once before, and it's not something I'm actively hoping for, rather that I see the rationale were they to do it. Yes, even if he re-signed with the Blues in the summer Petro and Shattenkirk are due their raises (and McDonald's $$ comes off the books), he wouldn't be a premier player forever, but he probably has 4-5 strong postseason runs in him, the two under contract now and three more. By the time his effectiveness was fading, the first round picks from 2012, 2013, 2014 should be arriving on the squad. And it's easier to attract better talent when you are a contender.

I just don't think the fear that when Iginla stopped being effective the Blues would be regretting dealing Stewart is all that realistic PROVIDED THAT a) new ownership could sign off (or signal) that they could handle the 7M next year and b) Iginla is more interested in being part of a Cup contender than getting the most $$ in his following deal. Iginla is the kind of guy who might even be able to most effectively drag Berglund into the confidence zone he needs.

If Calgary were willing to deal, it would take Stewart + with the + not being more valuable than Stewart (think of kimzey's star player model).

Perron-Backes-Oshie
McDonald-Berglund-Iginla
Steen-Arnott-D'Ags/Langenbrunner
Sobotka-Nichol-D'Ags/Langenbrunner

is a sneakily veteran playoff lineup and looks pretty strongly built for the postseason. McDonald has serious playoff bona fides, so do Iginla, Arnott, Langenbrunner, even Nichol has 40 playoff games. Perron has shown an ability to elevate in the postseason, you know Steen you can rely on, Sobotka was loved by Bruins fans in the postseason, and Oshie is having a very strong year. Backes' style is very postseason friendly. That lineup would be one NOBODY in Chicago, Detroit, San Jose or Vancouver would want to face. Set aside the worry about the $$ next year or what might happen when Iginla's in decline a few years from now and just imagine how that team would wear opposing defenses down.

That's why if the new owners could swing it (and again, the one big and one moderate raise aren't until after next season), I dunno, I'd rather pay Iginla 7M next year (and lose Langenbrunner and even Arnott) than give Stewart 3.5.

So, following the model kimzey's identified, trade Stewart + Crombeen + prospect + pick for Iginla you take on an extra 2.5M next year but add Tarasenko and drop Langenbrunner to offset most of that.

Next year:

Steen-Backes-Oshie
McDonald-Berglund/someone-Iginla
Perron-someone/Berglund-Tarasenko
Reaves-Sobotka-D'Agostini

Are Iginla's best years behind him? Probably? But he's still VERY effective and would be a strong force for showing a young Blues core how to win in the postseason. That has more value than folks who see it purely as a wrong-direction trade would like to admit.

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02-02-2012, 05:50 PM
  #32
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First of all, he's only 24. His two-way play has improved significantly since he first arrived, and he has a very strong history of scoring goals. I believe he has the highest career G/GP average of anyone on the team, and I don't think it's even close. The Blues aren't going to be looking to move a guy like that because of one down season.

I do agree that Stewart would function better with some playmakers, as most of his troubles offensively tend to stem from him overhandling the puck (which covers overstickhandling, passing when he should be shooting, poor passing decisions in general/forced passes that lead to turnovers, etc.), but I disagree that player needs to be a center. On the rush and off the cycle, forward positions really don't matter all that much barring a preference for one side of the ice to the other. The only true playmaker on the active roster at the moment is Perron, and he's playing well enough that he's typically not going to be on Stewart's line with both McDonald (who is a gifted playmaker in his own right) and Steen out. McDonald and Steen will be returning shortly, though, and Schwartz will be joining the team in the near future as well, so I believe that Stewart has a very good chance of finding the right chemistry to be productive here.

Edit: This was more of a response to the points being made above the previous post, as that wasn't there when I started this reply. I'm not against moving Stewart in the right deal, but I think the right deal is probably harder to find than many of the posters here probably believe. I think the chances are very high that Stewart is still with us when the season starts next year...and I also think that by the end of next year, we'll probably be glad he was.


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02-02-2012, 06:10 PM
  #33
Dolph Ziggler
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Originally Posted by Blues88 View Post
Care to elaborate?
Chris Stewart playing well does more for the Blues than Steen playing well.

I think this is a fluke bad year for Stewart

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02-02-2012, 09:22 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Been talked about ad nauseam but with the Blues need for a top 4 LHS/left-side D-man and Stewart continuing to struggle, any interest in Martin if the market for defensemen continues to dry up?

He doesn't possess the physicality you may want, but he can absolutely be a top pairing guy for you and imo, would play his best hockey with an offensive D-man.

He's excellent if he doesn't have to be relied upon to produce offense, which your team with Shattenkirk and Pietro is a good fit. Keep his game simple with forcing turnovers and starting the rush.
We don't care for taking over the Penguins mistake.

Martin is like Brewer, only worse.

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02-02-2012, 10:46 PM
  #35
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I think it depends on what happens when McDonald returns. One thing is for sure...we know that Chris Stewart CAN score goals. His 15 goals in 26 games with Blues last season was over a 40 goal pace, and despite what people say...I don't think that was just a fluke. Looking at those goals 1/3 were assisted by McDonald and 1/3 also came on the PP. Coincidence?...I think not. I think it's rather simple really....No McDonald/Poor PP= less Stewart goals. So again, I think we should wait and see how Stewart responds after we have a full roster before we trade him off or come to the conclusion that he just doesn't fit in here.

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02-02-2012, 11:18 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Falco Lombardi View Post
Chris Stewart playing well does more for the Blues than Steen playing well.

I think this is a fluke bad year for Stewart
I'm curious as to how you concluded that.

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02-02-2012, 11:19 PM
  #37
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Steen's 2 way game >>>>>>> Stewart

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02-03-2012, 12:09 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Blues88 View Post
I'm curious as to how you concluded that.
It's just an opinion. Chris Stewart playing well = an effective power play with plenty of goals scored.

Alex Steen is a great player to have and I'm certainly happy to have him, but Stewart playing to his potential is a better player. JMHO

Now getting him to play to his potential is the trick. What makes Steen so valuable is his consistency and complete 200 ft game. Wish Stewart could find a level of consistency near Steen's.

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02-03-2012, 09:26 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Been talked about ad nauseam but with the Blues need for a top 4 LHS/left-side D-man and Stewart continuing to struggle, any interest in Martin if the market for defensemen continues to dry up?

He doesn't possess the physicality you may want, but he can absolutely be a top pairing guy for you and imo, would play his best hockey with an offensive D-man.

He's excellent if he doesn't have to be relied upon to produce offense, which your team with Shattenkirk and Pietro is a good fit. Keep his game simple with forcing turnovers and starting the rush.
Brooks Orpik

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02-03-2012, 09:30 AM
  #40
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I think we should wait until the team is healthy and see if maybe that can help spark Stewart. Hell, who knows, maybe we will get lucky and he will come back from this break on a warpath and play like the guy he was when we picked him up around this time last year.

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02-03-2012, 09:48 AM
  #41
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If he stays all year and doesn't improve his overall effort, I believe he gets signed by The Blues and probably will get a 10% bump on a 1 year deal. I don't think anyone will be jumping at the chance to sign him to a multi-year deal for 3.5 to 4 million a year for a possible lack of effort guy, plus the price of the picks. To me that sounds risky.

So lets hope he picks it up because today's comments on Stltoday.com from Hitchcock sounded like he was giving a few guys a little kick in the pants about effort. I don't think it takes a lot of speculation to figure he's talking to Stewart and probably Berglund. If this plays out poorly I think there could be a deal coming, but I believe they would only move one and I would prefer it be Stewart unless they're getting a top two center-man in return.

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02-03-2012, 01:03 PM
  #42
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Everyone says Stewart is a potential 30-goal scorer, which is true. I think he'll get at least 20 goals this year, probably 25. As long as he's not turning pucks over and not changing the game negatively, then I think he'll stay past the deadline.

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02-03-2012, 01:20 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by hockeyman1707 View Post
Everyone says Stewart is a potential 30-goal scorer, which is true. I think he'll get at least 20 goals this year, probably 25. As long as he's not turning pucks over and not changing the game negatively, then I think he'll stay past the deadline.

He is going to score 15 goals in the next 33 after he only scored 10 in the first 49 so far ? I doubt he scores 20.

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02-03-2012, 03:02 PM
  #44
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Brooks Orpik
How does adding a 2nd pairing LH Defenseman help us at all more then if Stewart starts scoring again? Look at our defensive stats. Look at out offensive stats. Adding a mostly defensive defenseman is not a need.

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02-03-2012, 03:04 PM
  #45
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I didn't take it so much as Hitch giving a kick in the pants about effort as much as results, particularly on the power play. It's basically put up points on the power play or not be on the power play. Last year Stewart had 12 goals and 4 assists on the PP and this year he's got 2 goals, 1 assist. Berglund's got no goals, 2 PP assists. They've already been given plenty of PP time this year and they've been put on the B-team PP. They either need to get it in gear or they're not going to be seeing the PP when Steen and McDonald come back. Arnott has 4 goals and 7 assists on the PP already and Perron-Backes-Oshie are on the first unit.

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02-03-2012, 03:26 PM
  #46
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By the way, Colorado's (apparently ********) version of JR openly hopes the Avs trade slumping, impending UFA David Jones 1-for-1 for Stewart. Now I'm a Dartmouth guy and love my Dartmouth boys like Jones and Galiardi but that's just an embarrassing idea to put in print.

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02-03-2012, 03:31 PM
  #47
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By the way, Colorado's (apparently ********) version of JR openly hopes the Avs trade slumping, impending UFA David Jones 1-for-1 for Stewart. Now I'm a Dartmouth guy and love my Dartmouth boys like Jones and Galiardi but that's just an embarrassing idea to put in print.
LoL that would be horrible for the Blues. What is he really thinking. Stewart is the better play by a decent amount. Stewart is a RFA. That guy should never write about hockey again. I would like to trade Stewart for Duchense. lol

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02-03-2012, 03:39 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
By the way, Colorado's (apparently ********) version of JR openly hopes the Avs trade slumping, impending UFA David Jones 1-for-1 for Stewart. Now I'm a Dartmouth guy and love my Dartmouth boys like Jones and Galiardi but that's just an embarrassing idea to put in print.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
LoL that would be horrible for the Blues. What is he really thinking. Stewart is the better play by a decent amount. Stewart is a RFA. That guy should never write about hockey again. I would like to trade Stewart for Duchense. lol
Dater is pretty stupid but to be fair, at the end of blog he did mention it won't happen. Although his reasoning might be a little off. Jones being an UFA isn't the only reason why did trade won't happen.

Also, he only writes about this kind of stuff in his blog. You'll never see it in the paper or online as an actual article.

Quincey and Jones for Stewart.

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02-03-2012, 03:51 PM
  #49
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Not sure if this is the right location for this but I was curious to get some feedback from you guys about another deal. You guys are looking for LD the avs need size up front, how would something around Stewart for Kyle Quincey work for you guys? Both are RFAs at the end of the season. Currently Quincey is 32nd in scoring for defensemen (47GP 1G 21A 22pts -4 63 Hits). Any thoughts?

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02-03-2012, 04:00 PM
  #50
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Not sure if this is the right location for this but I was curious to get some feedback from you guys about another deal. You guys are looking for LD the avs need size up front, how would something around Stewart for Kyle Quincey work for you guys? Both are RFAs at the end of the season. Currently Quincey is 32nd in scoring for defensemen (47GP 1G 21A 22pts -4 63 Hits). Any thoughts?
Quincey has not been the cut above the current LDs the Blues already have. The problem for the Blues isn't that they don't have a bunch of quality NHLers at LD they have Jackman, Colaiacovo, Russell, Huskins, Cole and even Fairchild has been able to fill in a tad when the injuries pile up it's that the guy isn't a clear top-pairing guy. If Quincey were that guy, Avs fans wouldn't be trying to put him in so many trade proposals, let's be honest.

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