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Old
11-08-2003, 04:23 PM
  #51
gretzky2kurri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
Ever had a bad stretch, LoudmouthHemskyfan#1?

I thought so.
It looks like he's having one tonight.

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11-08-2003, 04:29 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
Show me an NHL coach who won't bench a 20 year old who is struggling and I'll show you a guy with a future as a junior coach. He was struggling, and it will no doubt benefit Hemsky to watch a game or two upstairs.

As for the Horcoff ripping, well I guess he's this year's whipping boy. I do want to ask you a question, though, in this regard:

Do you think it's possible for a good player to have a stretch where he's fighting the puck?

I've seen alot of hockey, and it's fairly common in my experience. Players have good games, months, seasons, and they also have bad stretches that match them. Horcoff is in a bad stretch.

Ever had a bad stretch, LoudmouthHemskyfan#1?

I thought so.
Why do you say you have no doubt it will benefit him to go to the PB? And how about the team, how is it benefitting them? What kind of message is that sending? Lead the team and get rewarded with benching while others are held unaccountable? We're not trying to win every night? 20 or not, he's one of the players that certainly warrants a demotion in lines, rather than a PB stint when not playing as well as he has, just as Smyth, Reasoner, Dvorak, Torres, etc. do.

Question: Would you have sat Brewer behind Ferguson?? There's not much difference in situation here.

I have been ripping Horcoff for a lot longer than this year, so don't try to paint me into the "he's my whipping boy" corner (you may not have been saying that, but it sounded like it). I personally don't think he's a very good NHL hockey player, and is not in a "bad stretch", instead he is simply not that good. See Dan Cleary for a very similar case. Alot of people waited a lot longer for him to get out of his "bad stretch". Do you really want to do that again?

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Old
11-08-2003, 04:29 PM
  #53
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Belfour is looking very good this evening. The Oilers are getting their chances, and most of their mistakes are not that major. BG looks invisible... what is the injury?

I think the Oilers are better than this game. It's hard to like Owen Nolan. Where was he against the Flyers? I'd like to see the Oilers bring their patented come from behind play at this point.

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Old
11-08-2003, 04:32 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Question: Would you have sat Brewer behind Ferguson?? There's not much difference in situation here.
Definitely. If it was after the game where Brewer himself led the team to 3 goals against, I would definitely have benched him for Ferguson. No questions asked.

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11-08-2003, 04:33 PM
  #55
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I wish MacT could hear me. The Brew-Cross pairing DOES NOT WORK! Either put Semenov on that pairing with Brewer or sit Eric out. He was out of position a LOT tonight. (Cross too)

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Old
11-08-2003, 04:47 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
I have been ripping Horcoff for a lot longer than this year, so don't try to paint me into the "he's my whipping boy" corner (you may not have been saying that, but it sounded like it). I personally don't think he's a very good NHL hockey player, and is not in a "bad stretch", instead he is simply not that good. See Dan Cleary for a very similar case. Alot of people waited a lot longer for him to get out of his "bad stretch". Do you really want to do that again?

Dan Cleary has alot of talent. He went 14-21-35 +5 in 00-01, and had good size and speed. Still does. I don't think it's really fair to rip the Oilers for giving a guy with that much potential time to emerge.

He didn't emerge, but it was far from a waste of time. Horcoff is in a little different situation, in that he's unlikely to get too many chances on the 1line/pp, but he certainly can contribute.

You don't think Horcoff is a very good player. Fine. I think he is. The great thing about it is that the future will decide.

This is Horcoff's 4th season in the NHL. Do you think it's his last season in the NHL?

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Old
11-08-2003, 04:54 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
Dan Cleary has alot of talent. He went 14-21-35 +5 in 00-01, and had good size and speed. Still does. I don't think it's really fair to rip the Oilers for giving a guy with that much potential time to emerge.

He didn't emerge, but it was far from a waste of time. Horcoff is in a little different situation, in that he's unlikely to get too many chances on the 1line/pp, but he certainly can contribute.

You don't think Horcoff is a very good player. Fine. I think he is. The great thing about it is that the future will decide.

This is Horcoff's 4th season in the NHL. Do you think it's his last season in the NHL?
I doubt it is his last season in the NHL, I do however feel that he is not worthy of the ice-time he has been getting, or being elevated above the players he has with regards to sitting out games thus far. There's nothing wrong with him being the 4th line center on this team, but he should have to earn that job as well, and, as a 4th liner, should be one of the first players in line to sit games. He could of course improve, and power to him if he does and the team will be better for it. I however see the chances of him being a substantial part of an Oilers contender as slim-to-none.

I think it's perfectly fine to rip the Oilers for allowing Cleary to take up a roster spot as long as he did. No progress was showing, no bright spots, and yet, the guy gets powerplay time, and takes a spot in the lineup away from others who deserve a chance. That's a pretty good case to rip on.

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Old
11-08-2003, 04:54 PM
  #58
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Oilers are now 1 for 31 on the powerplay on the road. Simpson isn't helping. How do they get it going?

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Old
11-08-2003, 05:03 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemskyfan
Oilers are now 1 for 31 on the powerplay on the road. Simpson isn't helping. How do they get it going?
Well, Semenov was sending 100 mph bullets at the net the last time he played, and imo it might be an idea to put York on the point ala igor's stat study from last season.

Other than that, punt.

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Old
11-08-2003, 05:03 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
I doubt it is his last season in the NHL, I do however feel that he is not worthy of the ice-time he has been getting, or being elevated above the players he has with regards to sitting out games thus far. There's nothing wrong with him being the 4th line center on this team, but he should have to earn that job as well, and, as a 4th liner, should be one of the first players in line to sit games. He could of course improve, and power to him if he does and the team will be better for it. I however see the chances of him being a substantial part of an Oilers contender as slim-to-none.

I think it's perfectly fine to rip the Oilers for allowing Cleary to take up a roster spot as long as he did. No progress was showing, no bright spots, and yet, the guy gets powerplay time, and takes a spot in the lineup away from others who deserve a chance. That's a pretty good case to rip on.
Horcoff had 13 minutes of ice time tonight. I would be much more concerned with hearing that Sarno got 18 minutes. Talk about doing nothing the entire game...

Everyone on this team can be sat in the pressbox except perhaps Ryan Smyth regardless of line. Chimera was playing brutally for the last 2 weeks and he sat. Isbister himself sat and he was playing on the first line with Smyth at the beginning of the season. I'm not saying that Horcoff hasn't played poorly. He certainly has... but Hemsky had every right to be in the pressbox as Horcoff did from their past couple of performances. Horcoff will probably come out eventually if he continues to play poorly. After all, Chimera sat well after he deserved to.

Cleary was a failed project as a scorer. He tickled us one season after playing with Doug Weight and was a disappointment thereafter. But he was a good checker when playing with Reasoner. At a cheaper pricetag, he could very well have been Pisani's replacement on RPM and I don't think we would have missed a beat.

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Old
11-08-2003, 05:29 PM
  #61
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An entertaining game tonight with a bad result. The Oil came out flying again with strong forecheck and shots on net. Unfortunately, Belfour stemmed the tide and the Leafs capitalized.

Oiler pluses on the night. I really liked Salmelainen's hustle and effort. He is lacking the finish (pun intended) around the net but I think it will come in time. Dvorak continues to struggle to pot goals but he contributes solidly in all areas. Skates effortlessly and looks like he could play sixty minutes.Staio continues his solid play. Brewer seems to be coming around. And Smith banged everything in sight.

Another minus game for Tommy Salo. Tough first goal on a roofer by Sundin but Salo looks out of position and just doesn't seem capable of sustained, consistent play. Hugely deflating for this team to come out flying to then see soft goals place them behind the eight-ball.

Bad penalty by Moreau placed the Oil in double jeopardy and the Leafs took advantage. Power Play is not working. I hope Semenov will get back in and have an opportunity to man the pp.

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Old
11-08-2003, 05:57 PM
  #62
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I didn't see a whole lot of the game but the Oilers had a lot of shots on net. Let's face it: Belfour has always had the Oilers' number. I think for me, it just hurts a bit more that they lost to the leafs.

As far as Hemsky getting to sit, I don't necesaarily see it as a bad thing. He was probably told to look at a few things that he needs to improve. I think he'll come out flying vs the Rags Monday.


All and all, I'm not as pissed as I should be. The Oilers had lots of chances at the beginning to get an early lead and had bad breaks. Like I said, I didn't see alot of the game so I may be way off base.

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Old
11-08-2003, 11:10 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. van Nostrin

All and all, I'm not as pissed as I should be. The Oilers had lots of chances at the beginning to get an early lead and had bad breaks. Like I said, I didn't see alot of the game so I may be way off base.
Another way of looking at it is, the Oilers had the chances, and simply couldn't finish. Doesn't help when you've got two guys who can actually put the puck in the net in the PB and on 'The Headliner'. Doesn't matter how we played if we don't finish. Those are the worst kind of games IMO, because coaches use them to make excuses.

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Old
11-09-2003, 02:45 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Another way of looking at it is, the Oilers had the chances, and simply couldn't finish. Doesn't help when you've got two guys who can actually put the puck in the net in the PB and on 'The Headliner'. Doesn't matter how we played if we don't finish. Those are the worst kind of games IMO, because coaches use them to make excuses.
Good point. I guess sometimes it's better if it was just a bad game overall. The Ottawa/New Jersey game was similar in that the Sens lost 'cuz of Brodeur. Sometimes a goalie will just stone you and I think Belfour has a history of doing that with the Oilers.

I think the test will be Monday. Nothing short of a win will be acceptable. IMO.

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Old
11-09-2003, 03:26 AM
  #65
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So the Leafs get no credit?

Only Belfour?

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11-09-2003, 05:31 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by PepNCheese
So the Leafs get no credit?

Only Belfour?
Oilers outshot the leafs 35-23. Leafs were oportunistic with their chances but as Pat Quinn said himself, they had 4 chances to score and did. So yeah, Belfour should get most of the credit. You one of the leaf players?

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Old
11-09-2003, 04:29 PM
  #67
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You one of the leaf players?
No...who the hell are you?

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