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02-03-2012, 09:53 AM
  #51
veganhunter
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Originally Posted by Lynk View Post
No chance.

It's the obvious solution, but they've had more than a few opportunities to re-unite them and it hasn't been done.

Burmistrov is not being utilized properly. It's been proven time and time again that when given top 6 linemates he and that line create a lot of chemistry and show it on the scoreboard.

And yet he still ends up playing with Gagnon and Miettinen.
I figured as much I've been absolutely baffled by his refusal to play him with some better players (besides the game he replaced Fehr) I understand he has some questionable give-aways but a guy with his offensive creativity is going to have that happen to him on occasion he does everything else you could ask of a guy though I mean Little plays on the first line and has ample PP time and only has 2 more goals and 2 more assists yet Burmi is buried on the bottom two lines playing as a winger

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02-03-2012, 09:58 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Lynk View Post
No chance.

It's the obvious solution, but they've had more than a few opportunities to re-unite them and it hasn't been done.

Burmistrov is not being utilized properly. It's been proven time and time again that when given top 6 linemates he and that line create a lot of chemistry and show it on the scoreboard.

And yet he still ends up playing with Gagnon and Miettinen.
Noel et al. want to teach Burmistrov how to play the right way. Although I agree he does create alot of offense when given the right linemates, he also tends to negate that contribution with sloppy turnovers at the blueline and half-boards. There's been a good emphasis on puck possession with solid support, and I find Burmi really severs his support with his wild entries in the zone. For all his struggles, Fehr at least seems to be getting this concept, and is playing a more direct 'point A to point B' game that Burmi really needs to get better at.

Having said all that, burying him on the 4th line with Gagnon and Mittens is just a waste. At the very least, they should be shuffling him and Fehr in and out of that 2nd line spot.

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02-03-2012, 10:01 AM
  #53
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Come on Jets set another record with a 3 game road winning streak tonight!

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02-03-2012, 10:10 AM
  #54
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02-03-2012, 10:14 AM
  #55
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Also, it's incredible the difference that Buff made in the game last night. I was prepared to cut him some slack and watch him coast for a few games. But wow, he went out there made a huge contribution! He was always in the middle of the play in both ends, the TV team must have been tired of saying his name.
Like I said in the PGT, I think the coaches have been doing alot of work with Buff video and game strategy wise while he's been out. Last night was by far the best I've seen him play this season, even on the TB goal he was in the right spot for the play. Watching him take the puck the length of the ice over and over was a ton of fun, keep it up boys!

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02-03-2012, 10:18 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Noel et al. want to teach Burmistrov how to play the right way. Although I agree he does create alot of offense when given the right linemates, he also tends to negate that contribution with sloppy turnovers at the blueline and half-boards. There's been a good emphasis on puck possession with solid support, and I find Burmi really severs his support with his wild entries in the zone. For all his struggles, Fehr at least seems to be getting this concept, and is playing a more direct 'point A to point B' game that Burmi really needs to get better at.

Having said all that, burying him on the 4th line with Gagnon and Mittens is just a waste. At the very least, they should be shuffling him and Fehr in and out of that 2nd line spot.
Yeah, Burmi's young enough that whatever kind of additional coaching we can give him now in an NHL atmosphere will be way more beneficial down the line as he rounds into form with the rest of our lineup. I think Noel understands what this team is capable of right now but at the same time knows how much more they're capable of two years down the road if the foundation is laid.

I can't imagine how valuable Burmi will be to this team as a complete two-way player who can put the puck in the net. I don't mind burying a bit of his flash on 3rd-4th line this season as long as it's contributing to his long-term growth.

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02-03-2012, 10:19 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Noel et al. want to teach Burmistrov how to play the right way. Although I agree he does create alot of offense when given the right linemates, he also tends to negate that contribution with sloppy turnovers at the blueline and half-boards. There's been a good emphasis on puck possession with solid support, and I find Burmi really severs his support with his wild entries in the zone. For all his struggles, Fehr at least seems to be getting this concept, and is playing a more direct 'point A to point B' game that Burmi really needs to get better at.

Having said all that, burying him on the 4th line with Gagnon and Mittens is just a waste. At the very least, they should be shuffling him and Fehr in and out of that 2nd line spot.
he does tend to do those things I agree and he also dangles himself into a worse position sometimes but I think you have to give him a chance to play that out of his game rather than relegate him because let's be honest our offence is pretty abysmal.......

though Fehr has been playing actually fairly well lately as you said

on a side note does anyone think we qualify Fehr if he starts potting a couple of his chances or not chance?

Samcanadian I agree if it's better for his long term development then by all means do it but I worry a bit Noel is killing his offensive development doing that remember he only played one year in the OHL I know he is still really young but......

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02-03-2012, 10:19 AM
  #58
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C'mon Jets, the panthers fans wanna see some red! Let em see it all over the ice!



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02-03-2012, 10:28 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Although I agree he does create alot of offense when given the right linemates, he also tends to negate that contribution with sloppy turnovers at the blueline and half-boards. There's been a good emphasis on puck possession with solid support, and I find Burmi really severs his support with his wild entries in the zone. .
^This.^ Precisely. Spot on.

Someone else added they thought he should be given "a chance to play that out of his game rather than relegate him"; the NHL is not a developmental league. He is not getting true top six ice time when playing 5 on 5 precisely because he is so soft on the puck as stated above. The Jets may be a tad offensively inept but they are also playing defensively sound and that is a requirement for entry into the upper lines for any young player. He will get top line time when he earns it by playing it out of his game whenever given the opportunity, even if that opportunity is limited to the lower lines for now.

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02-03-2012, 10:28 AM
  #60
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Burmi was given first-line time just before the AS break. He did nothing. He didn't look particularly effective having 19 minutes on the top line than he did yesterday.

I like the kid but lets remember that he's a 20-year old sophomore who had 20 points in an average rookie season. We all want to see him develop but he's not a complete enough hockey player to stay on the top two lines. The team needs wins right now and there is no margin of error at this point to sacrifice the system, or any wins, in order to develop one particular player.

He is not good enough to replace any of Ladd, Wellwood, Antropov, Little, Wheeler, or Kane on the top two lines. All of these players are superior hockey players to Burmi in every aspect except perhaps defensive play. I can see an argument for alternating him with Fehr on the second line perhaps, while Kane is out.

I'll say it: Fehr looked more dangerous than Burmi yesterday when he had the puck. When he crashed the net with that solo effort, that was better (offensively) than anything Burmi did the entire night. Burmi was getting knocked on his ass out there.

If he is as good as some claim him to be, as creative offensively, then he should be able to play on any line and contribute. Good hockey players adapt. Every good player out there has been playing with different players from Timbits team onward through their career. That's something that is touted of Kyle Wellwood. That he's creative and he can play on any line and 'shake it up'. If Burmi absolutely HAS to play with Antropov 100% of the time then I don't think that speaks much of him as a player, and I honestly don't think it would make him a well-rounded a player in the long term either.

We all want to see Burmi develop but I think we need to ground the visions of Datsyuk 2.0 a little.

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02-03-2012, 10:33 AM
  #61
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i'll be curious to see how many Jets fans are in attendance tonight apparently we had a lot of support vs Tampa

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02-03-2012, 10:34 AM
  #62
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I recall in the summer a fellow Bruins fan stopped by the boards here and told us part of why Seguin got fewer minutes last season was because Bruins head coach Claude Julien wanted him to do things a certain way, and was teaching him to do things a certain way.

Sometimes, less (ice time) is more, in the grand scheme of things. I trust Noel, and I trust this organization in their grooming and developing of young players. It's their bread and butter, it's what they know, in my opinion. Right from Chipman, to Zinger, to Cheveldayoff, to Noel.

I have little doubt there is a plan here in terms of working with Burmistrov. He is a very talented young hockey player, and very smart. One would think on a team who is low scoring, he would be getting some prime minutes. But, I believe there are behind the scenes stuff we don't really know about, and management is doing what they feel is best for this young hockey player. I feel confident we will be rewarded, quite possibly and likely, as early as next season. I think Burmistrov will indeed put it all together, he's too smart and far too skilled not to.

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02-03-2012, 10:34 AM
  #63
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FORCE WAFFLE!



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02-03-2012, 10:43 AM
  #64
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FORCE WAFFLE!

lol thats hilarious

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02-03-2012, 10:57 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Lynk View Post
No chance.

It's the obvious solution, but they've had more than a few opportunities to re-unite them and it hasn't been done.

Burmistrov is not being utilized properly. It's been proven time and time again that when given top 6 linemates he and that line create a lot of chemistry and show it on the scoreboard.

And yet he still ends up playing with Gagnon and Miettinen.
Don't agree. Burmi was ineffective in the chances he had playing a top 6 role. The line of Burmi, Antro, Wellwood went stagnant quickly after they were paired together.

Burmi does a lot of skating but really doesn't accomplish much, potential to be a good player but really needs to learn how to play first.

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02-03-2012, 11:00 AM
  #66
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Don't agree. Burmi was ineffective in the chances he had playing a top 6 role. The line of Burmi, Antro, Wellwood went stagnant quickly after they were paired together.

Burmi does a lot of skating but really doesn't accomplish much, potential to be a good player but really needs to learn how to play first.
So early on in the season when every PGT was filled with everyone saying "Burmi, Antro, Wellwood were the best line again tonight", we're just sweeping that under the rug because Burmi has underperformed since then?..

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02-03-2012, 11:05 AM
  #67
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So early on in the season when every PGT was filled with everyone saying "Burmi, Antro, Wellwood were the best line again tonight", we're just sweeping that under the rug because Burmi has underperformed since then?..
Well I dunno, that was pretty early on in the season and it stands to reason that the way a player is playing now is a bit more of an indicator of their standing with the team than how it was at the beginning of the year.

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02-03-2012, 11:08 AM
  #68
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02-03-2012, 11:11 AM
  #69
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Well I dunno, that was pretty early on in the season and it stands to reason that the way a player is playing now is a bit more of an indicator of their standing with the team than how it was at the beginning of the year.
Which you may be right, but there are a select few on the roster being given undeserved opportunities when Burmistrov has not.

Miettinen has been given PP time since he got here and has done nothing with it and yet once again was on the point for the man advantage last night.

Fehr has been given every opportunity possible and although he created a few chances last night in the 1st period, I saw nothing from him in the 2nd or 3rd and yet he is still given chances in the top 6.

We need to remember that this team scored 2 goals in 65 minutes last night and 1 goal in 65 minutes the night before, we could've just as easily lost these last 2 games and this board mentality would've been a lot different than it is right now. This is not a recipe for consistent success.

If they're going to preach hard work and putting everyone where they deserve then it needs to be done throughout the entire roster imo. I'm hoping what Guerzy said is right that they're trying to handle Burmi a la Seguin style which pays off in the end because right now he just looks out of sorts.

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02-03-2012, 11:12 AM
  #70
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The comments that Burmi needs to learn both ends of the ice and that Noel is trying to teach him a defensive game are strange to me. Last year he was one of the few guys that would whole-heartedly back check. More guys are willing to back check hard this season, and Burmi still does it well too. He's also no slouch on the PK.

The bad thing about creative Russian players is that sometimes they lose the puck when they get fancy. This seems to be the flaw in Burmistrov's game, but I wouldn't want that creativity to be bridled too much, there will be some times it costs us, but I think it will end up paying off more. Buff doesn't get sent down to the 3rd pairing for similar behavior.

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02-03-2012, 11:16 AM
  #71
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02-03-2012, 11:18 AM
  #72
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So early on in the season when every PGT was filled with everyone saying "Burmi, Antro, Wellwood were the best line again tonight", we're just sweeping that under the rug because Burmi has underperformed since then?..
Do you mean early in the season when the Jets were playing an unstructured - freewheeling game and when the forwards weren't bothering with the little details like actually checking the other team when they had the puck, and when their won/loss record was horrid? Then?

My theory is that Burmistrov fell off the map at the precise moment when he was required to pay attention to the defensive side of the five on five game.

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02-03-2012, 11:19 AM
  #73
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Do you mean early in the season when the Jets were playing an unstructured freewheeling game and when the forwards weren't bothering with the little details like actually checking the other team when they had the puck, and when their won/loss record was horrid? Then?

My theory is that Burmistrov fell off the map at the precise moment when he was required to pay attention to the defensive side of the game as well.
Yeah, except that his defensive game has been consistently great during the season.

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02-03-2012, 11:23 AM
  #74
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Yeah, except that his defensive game has been consistently great during the season.
I'm not referring to making the occasional backcheck. I'm referring to his just softly giving the puck away constantly, to not blocking passing lanes and trapping. Parts of his defensive game are sadly lacking. That is exactly why he isn't playing in the top six on a full time basis.

Good defensive hockey includes actually maintaining possession when you have the puck; that is an abstract concept for some to grasp. Limiting your own giveaways is defense.


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02-03-2012, 11:28 AM
  #75
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I'm not referring to making the occasional backcheck. I'm referring to his just softly giving the puck away constantly, to not blocking passing lanes and trapping. Parts of his defensive game are sadly lacking. That is exactly why he isn't playing in the top six on a full time basis.
Which is also why Noel is consistently giving him top PK minutes? Or is that just to develope his defensive game? And which is why the commentators for various teams often is praising his defensive game?

If you were attacking his offensive game, talking about how he has to distribute the puck instead of deking himself into trouble I might listen to you, but as of now, I think you're just full of crap when you're talking about him.

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