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Old
02-03-2012, 01:50 PM
  #126
Et le But
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Grigorenko would interestingly enough make Desharnais the most redundant of the three. Size aside they both are cerebral playmakers who like to control the pace and are willing to battle in the corner, but aren't elite on the defensive end by any means.

The funny thing is Plekanec would probably be the best complimentary 2nd of our three centres, not to mention the only one capable of leading a 1st line while Grigorenko develops.

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02-03-2012, 01:51 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by ProMath View Post
Team that would be looking at him would probably be playoff team.
I don't see a non playoff team building around him.

So their 1st pick would more likely be around 20th overall.

Jeff Carter (much better then Plekanec) = 8 overall + Voracek (7th overall)

I would Expect lower pick (16+) + young Winger/defenseman/blue chip prospect ( less valuable then Voracek was) + 3rd pick
Jeff Carter isn't "much better" than Plekanec. He's bigger, younger and better scorer. Pleks is better defensively and has much better work ethic.

Some fans from Chicago are taking McNeil and their first +++ which is pretty good... IF this team wants to get a lotery pick next year also...

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Old
02-03-2012, 02:03 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
Jeff Carter isn't "much better" than Plekanec. He's bigger, younger and better scorer. Pleks is better defensively and has much better work ethic.

Some fans from Chicago are taking McNeil and their first +++ which is pretty good... IF this team wants to get a lotery pick next year also...

Chicago 1st = 22+ probably

Mcneill = 18th overall....

What did I say exactly ??

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Originally Posted by ProMath View Post
I would Expect lower pick (16+) + young Winger/defenseman/blue chip prospect ( less valuable then Voracek was) + 3rd pick
Funny ... I said Much better ... then said what I think would be a good return... which is a bit better then what you posted....

Yes Carter is struggling this years ... but when they trading him ... he just came off a 46,33,36 goals season...

if this isnt much better then Plekanec... what is ? yes Plekanec is better defensively... but looks at the +/- of Carter during those 3 season ... + 52).

Again, don't get me wrong ... I REALLY LIKE Plekanec
Yes is work ethic is awesome. Yes he is very good defensively.
... but some Habs fan = only batman overrating their player....


Last edited by ProMath: 02-03-2012 at 02:11 PM.
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Old
02-03-2012, 02:05 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by ProMath View Post
Funny ... I said Much better ... then said what I think would be a good return... which is a bit better then what you posted....

Yes Carter is struggling this years ... but when they trading him ... he just came off a 46,33,36 goals season...

if this isnt much better then Plekanec... what is ? (before you say Plekanec is better defensively, which is right, looks at the +/- of Carter during those 3 season ... + 52)
Carter is a better goalscorer than Plekanec, by far, but he's probably worse at every other part of the game.

Using +/- to make a point when comparing two very different teams = no.

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02-03-2012, 02:09 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Grigorenko would interestingly enough make Desharnais the most redundant of the three. Size aside they both are cerebral playmakers who like to control the pace and are willing to battle in the corner, but aren't elite on the defensive end by any means.
That's because Grigo is still in the Junior. Under a good coaching professional staff in the AHL or NHL, we could turn him into an imposing presence who could use his playmaking ability, combined with his size, as a reliable centre who can pull hard shifts once in a while.

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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
The funny thing is Plekanec would probably be the best complimentary 2nd of our three centres, not to mention the only one capable of leading a 1st line while Grigorenko develops.
that's what I think, but also because Plekanek proved to be a superior defensive centre and an excellent PKer. Plus, I don't want to see all three centers on our team having less than 3 NHL seasons under their belts. Having a Vet would be the wise choice, i say.

Eller is just too far away from being a full-fledged develop centre to hand him the keys to Plek's roster spot on a permanent basis. He'd do good on many teams who need more defensive stability.

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Old
02-03-2012, 02:16 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Carter is a better goalscorer than Plekanec, by far, but he's probably worse at every other part of the game.

Using +/- to make a point when comparing two very different teams = no.
YEs you're right, can't do that.

But Carter is no Kovalev ... he cans play defenses and actually back check. It's not like Carter doesn't know how to play defense.

Maybe ''much better'' was too much...

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02-03-2012, 02:25 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
Jeff Carter isn't "much better" than Plekanec. He's bigger, younger and better scorer. Pleks is better defensively and has much better work ethic.

Some fans from Chicago are taking McNeil and their first +++ which is pretty good... IF this team wants to get a lotery pick next year also...
Here he goes again about Carter and his defensive problems !

Yet everyone but you and Et le But knows he was always on Phillies top PK.

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02-03-2012, 02:27 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by ProMath View Post
YEs you're right, can't do that.

But Carter is no Kovalev ... he cans play defenses and actually back check. It's not like Carter doesn't know how to play defense.

Maybe ''much better'' was too much...
Carter is much much much better than Plekanec.

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02-03-2012, 02:46 PM
  #134
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Here he goes again about Carter and his defensive problems !

Yet everyone but you and Et le But knows he was always on Phillies top PK.
You're getting on my nerves big time, buddy... I'm about to do what I always refused to do if you keep this up...

How about you go back to that ****ing thread and see that I answered your stupid claim about PK time. He was used mainly 3-4 years ago when they had a philosophy of using their star players on the PK. He was replaced last year by a much better PKer, Claude Giroux. This year, in CLB, his PK time is almost non-existent. Also, PK isn't the only way to evaluate defensive abilities.

Get it ?... I mean really, get it ??

... just to be sure... get it ? Really ?

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02-03-2012, 02:55 PM
  #135
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Carter in Montreal scares the crap out of me, especially with the term of that contract.

The "Dry Island" stuff from the summer is scary.

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02-03-2012, 03:05 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
Here he goes again about Carter and his defensive problems !

Yet everyone but you and Et le But knows he was always on Phillies top PK.
MTL-rules already explained it nicely, but once again.

It's not that Carter is inept defensively. But there's a lot of warning signs that he's not committed in his own end, and as it has already been said neither Philly or Columbus trusted him on the PK when other options were available.

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02-03-2012, 03:16 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Malkin?
Ovechkin?

I'd be glad to built my team around those players. Hell I wouldn't mind building around Kovalchuk either.
Exceptional talents, no doubt. No model of consistency though. I personally wouldn't want to build around them. My opinion of course.

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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Highly drafted Canadians like Dany Heatley, Patrick Marleau, Eric Lindros, Roberto Luongo, Jay Bouwmeester, Rick Nash, Cam Barker, and Benoit Pouliot, are models of consistency and are the type of prime time playoff warriors this team needs.
Where did I mention Canadian, American, Swedish or any other country in my post? Whether you like it or not, Russians are, in most part, extremely talented but they are also just as moody, inconsistent and there is always going to be the threat of the KHL looming.

Again, putting my hopes on a player from that country, based on recent history, scares the hell out of me and I would tend to stay away... especially if a good offer came from another team.

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Judging a player based on where he was born is idiotic.
I'm not going to lower myself to that level sorry. People can think differently than me without having idiotic views.

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02-03-2012, 03:31 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Exceptional talents, no doubt. No model of consistency though. I personally wouldn't want to build around them. My opinion of course.


Where did I mention Canadian, American, Swedish or any other country in my post? Whether you like it or not, Russians are, in most part, extremely talented but they are also just as moody, inconsistent and there is always going to be the threat of the KHL looming.

Again, putting my hopes on a player from that country, based on recent history, scares the hell out of me and I would tend to stay away... especially if a good offer came from another team.


I'm not going to lower myself to that level sorry. People can think differently than me without having idiotic views.
Okay I'll change my post.

I hope Montreal never acquires any players like Pavel Datsyuk, Evgeni Malkin, Andrei Markov, Sergei Fedorov, Igor Larionov, Pavel Bure, Alex Mogilny, Vladimir Konstantinov, Slava Fetisov, Sergei Zubov, Sergei Gonchar, Ilya Kovalchuk. Wouldn't want those moody, inconsistent Russians on my team.

Its silly.

Judge a player individually by who he is, not where he's born.

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02-03-2012, 10:04 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Okay I'll change my post.

I hope Montreal never acquires any players like Pavel Datsyuk, Evgeni Malkin, Andrei Markov, Sergei Fedorov, Igor Larionov, Pavel Bure, Alex Mogilny, Vladimir Konstantinov, Slava Fetisov, Sergei Zubov, Sergei Gonchar, Ilya Kovalchuk. Wouldn't want those moody, inconsistent Russians on my team.

Its silly.

Judge a player individually by who he is, not where he's born.
But then again i hope they go get Cammy back he's Canadian so he's not lazy greedy and everything else that ends in Y.

May I tell you people that my mind is blown by the somewhat ignorance of every body...

One telling me that he wouldnt build is team around Malkin-_-
One telling me that malkin is inconsistent....
One telling me that plekanec is a 3rd line center
One telling me that Carter is not a defensive liability
One telling me that carter Is much better than Plek
One telling me that Richard's is much better than Plek
One telling me that +/- are something u can form a argument over

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02-03-2012, 10:57 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
If we pick 1st or 2nd, I hope we end up with Grigorenko. If we are 3rd, I would trade down one spot (our 1st for #4 and 2nd) and pick Galchenyuk.
Basically my line of thought.
The thing is is have a logjam of 2nd (and potential) line centers in DD, Plek, Eller, Leblanc and ... Gomez (lol I felt dirty saying that).

Gotta trade some of them, as they don't belong in the bottom 6 (maybe Leblanc but we need to see more).

But yeah, in my mind it's Grigorenko or Galchenyuk.

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02-03-2012, 10:57 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Okay I'll change my post.

I hope Montreal never acquires any players like Pavel Datsyuk, Evgeni Malkin, Andrei Markov, Sergei Fedorov, Igor Larionov, Pavel Bure, Alex Mogilny, Vladimir Konstantinov, Slava Fetisov, Sergei Zubov, Sergei Gonchar, Ilya Kovalchuk. Wouldn't want those moody, inconsistent Russians on my team.

Its silly.

Judge a player individually by who he is, not where he's born.
You're right. Off that list, I'd only build around Datsyuk and Fedorov.

Not sure what part of "they scare the crap out of me" you don't understand as you seem to take it like "I wouldn't want any of them". Not what I'm saying.

Simply playing the percentage for the reasons I've mentioned and you didn't quote, that's all... but feel free to disagree.

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02-03-2012, 11:09 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
You're right. Off that list, I'd only build around Datsyuk and Fedorov.

Not sure what part of "they scare the crap out of me" you don't understand as you seem to take it like "I wouldn't want any of them". Not what I'm saying.

Simply playing the percentage for the reasons I've mentioned and you didn't quote, that's all... but feel free to disagree.
you wouldn't want to build around a conn smyth/cup winning 25 year old player with a career 1.2ppg in both the regular season & Playoffs....?


really?


I don't even know what to say to that...

biased much?

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02-03-2012, 11:22 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Aceekay View Post
Gallagher did fine in the wjc and stepped his game up for the semi final.

Evaluating a player on such a small sample size is absolutely ridiculous.
Higher the level of competition is, better you can evaluate a kid's weakness.. Gallagher showed alot of heart and determination in this tournament but the kid clearly lacks top end skills.. I see him as a Gionta type of player but will have to get faster.. His shot is weak and lack accuracy, his lack of speed and size was clearly an issue against top level opposition, was caught out of position a couple of times.. Strengths: high compete level, works very well in restraint space, interesting stickhandling skills, goes in the dirty areas, seems to always find a way to crash the net despite his small frame, he is pretty fiesty and dynamic on the ice, always looking to give his linemates an option getting rid of his defensive coverage.. I think his determination will lead him to the NHL but Im not expecting someone we will rely on to carry our offense, third line winger, good depth player is what Im expecting from him at this point.. Could see him being part of a deal since we already have kids like Bournival Leblanc Holland in our system.. Including Gallagher in a deal could be pretty interesting for alot of teams..


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Old
02-03-2012, 11:34 PM
  #144
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CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Erik Cole ($4.500m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Max Pacioretty ($1.625m)
Louis Leblanc ($1.170m) / Lars Eller ($1.270m) / Andrei Kostitsyn ($3.250m)
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / David Desharnais ($0.850m) / Travis Moen ($1.500m)
Aaron Palushaj ($0.883m) / Petteri Nokelainen ($0.550m) / Mathieu Darche ($0.700m)

DEFENSEMEN
Josh Gorges ($3.900m) / Tomas Kaberle ($4.250m)
Chris Campoli ($1.750m) / Hal Gill ($2.250m)
P.K. Subban ($0.875m) / Raphael Diaz ($0.900m)
/ Alexei Emelin ($0.984m)

GOALTENDERS
Peter Budaj ($1.150m) / Carey Price ($2.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $43,441,699; BONUSES: $300,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $20,858,301

that's under the cap floor.

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02-03-2012, 11:40 PM
  #145
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Markov's cap hit counts, even on LTIR.

You just get an exception for the % of the cap hit equivalent to the part of the season he missed.

Plus, you have the part of the season we paid Cammalleri which would be roughly 3M$ (Bourque's pro-rated contract is applied for the rest of the season).

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Old
02-03-2012, 11:47 PM
  #146
ProMath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
But then again i hope they go get Cammy back he's Canadian so he's not lazy greedy and everything else that ends in Y.

May I tell you people that my mind is blown by the somewhat ignorance of every body...

One telling me that he wouldnt build is team around Malkin-_-
One telling me that malkin is inconsistent....
One telling me that plekanec is a 3rd line center
One telling me that Carter is not a defensive liability
One telling me that carter Is much better than Plek
One telling me that Richard's is much better than Plek
One telling me that +/- are something u can form a argument over
1. You should read again some post.
2. You're overreacting ... just like you overrate some player.
3. You're mixing thing

But hey... everyone can play your game.

One telling me Plekanec is the best 2nd line center in the league
One telling me defensive aspect of the game is the only thing I form a argument over
One telling me a 30 goals scorer is less valuable then a 20-25 goal scorers
One telling me a 2nd line center should be elite defensevily

Just to remind you .... you said: Kesler is PROBABLY better then Plekanec. ouch ...

Did you talk about Ignorance ?? ... yah you did.

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Old
02-03-2012, 11:52 PM
  #147
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This guy would look great in a habs jersey http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcH_h3ObyRM

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02-03-2012, 11:54 PM
  #148
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.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezX7K...eature=related Grigo!!!!

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02-04-2012, 12:16 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Forsberg could turn out really well i think/Hope.

Who dosnt want a russian ?

I think CBJ will get a center so grigorenko will go ...
then yakupov will go then we'll get Forsberg

Im going to be happy with this order of draft by CH

Grigorenko
Yakupov
Forsberg
Reinhart
Trouba
Murray
Dumba
Galchenyuk
Ceci
I agree Grigorenko is as good as Columbus property. As for the 2nd pick it will undoubtly be Edmontons and they will be under a lot of pressure to get a top Dman. Murray or Reinhart could move up just because it is them. I don't know about Yakupovs attitude but if we have the choice between him and Forsberg it will have to be Yakupov.

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02-04-2012, 05:12 AM
  #150
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
I agree Grigorenko is as good as Columbus property. As for the 2nd pick it will undoubtly be Edmontons and they will be under a lot of pressure to get a top Dman. Murray or Reinhart could move up just because it is them. I don't know about Yakupovs attitude but if we have the choice between him and Forsberg it will have to be Yakupov.
First Columbus has to win the draft lottery.

Second I'm not sure Columbus will take Grigo over Yakupov.

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