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02-03-2012, 02:28 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
This board's collective obsession with Shultz is ridiculous. Guy can barely handle playing in the AHL, you have to know he can't hack it in the big leagues. You need to be at the Blunden/White level in the A for the promotion to make any sense.

A tough guy that can't play is absolutely useless to your team unless you're blatently trying to lose.

At least Conboy is good enough at the AHL level that he might be able to handle being a 4th line passenger.
Darche, Weber, Nokelainer, Engqvist have all been useless on our fourth line ALL SEASON. Even if Schultz isn't ready, i would call him up 'cause he would bring some entertainment.

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02-03-2012, 02:33 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
Darche, Weber, Nokelainer, Engqvist have all been useless on our fourth line ALL SEASON. Even if Schultz isn't ready, i would call him up 'cause he would bring some entertainment.
When Darche, Nokelainen and Engqvist play in the AHL, they are top line players, and scorers for their teams.

Shultz is so far below that right now.

He's young, but why stick him in the NHL where he is gonna be made a fool of.

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02-03-2012, 02:59 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
Darche, Weber, Nokelainer, Engqvist have all been useless on our fourth line ALL SEASON. Even if Schultz isn't ready, i would call him up 'cause he would bring some entertainment.
If those guys who are far superior to him at the AHL level can't hack it on a 4th line, why bring up Shultz. Even if he entertains you your probably hurting his development by putting him in a situation where he can't possibly manage to play actual hockey. Which is what you want him to develop if you have any hopes of using him as a useful tough guy in the future. Not to mention, what are the odds he manages to bring any tough guy stuff if he can't skate at an NHL level? He'd probably just be behind the play and not even in position to hit anyone.

Screwing with prospect development for your entertainment is a pretty dumb thing to want.

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02-03-2012, 03:07 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
If those guys who are far superior to him at the AHL level can't hack it on a 4th line, why bring up Shultz.
Because Schultz is a real 4th liner. Darche, Engqvist, Weber and Palushaj are on the 4th line, but they play a fancy game like top-6 players... You need some diversity in the team.

Anyway, I'm sick and tired to have this discussion all the time. Stick with those soft loosers who are affraid to defend their friends if that's what you want. You're lucky, the GM has the same mentality !

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02-03-2012, 03:15 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
Because Schultz is a real 4th liner. Darche, Engqvist, Weber and Palushaj are on the 4th line, but they play a fancy game like top-6 players... You need some diversity in the team.

Anyway, I'm sick and tired to have this discussion all the time. Stick with those soft loosers who are affraid to defend their friends if that's what you want. You're lucky, the GM has the same mentality !
To be a real 4th liner you must be capable of being at least a fringe NHL level player. Which means being at least a good player at the AHL level.

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02-03-2012, 03:18 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
Because Schultz is a real 4th liner. Darche, Engqvist, Weber and Palushaj are on the 4th line, but they play a fancy game like top-6 players... You need some diversity in the team.

Anyway, I'm sick and tired to have this discussion all the time. Stick with those soft loosers who are affraid to defend their friends if that's what you want. You're lucky, the GM has the same mentality !
You are making a good point Aurel.

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02-03-2012, 03:19 PM
  #57
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The few pure enforcers left in the league who are there for no reason but to fight aren't "true 4th liners" anyway. Guys like Shelley are situational 13th forwards who should only be playing when a team is out for revenge or when there's no other option out there.

Even the toughest teams in the league get contributions from their 4th line beyond fighting. Even a guy like Engqvist who seems to have no purpose in the NHL, at the very least will let the other centres rest a few minutes because at least he can keep up with the game.

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02-03-2012, 03:21 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
Because Schultz is a real 4th liner. Darche, Engqvist, Weber and Palushaj are on the 4th line, but they play a fancy game like top-6 players... You need some diversity in the team.

Anyway, I'm sick and tired to have this discussion all the time. Stick with those soft loosers who are affraid to defend their friends if that's what you want. You're lucky, the GM has the same mentality !
Agree 100%.

And what is with the hate of Alex Henry by Gauthier?

Our D is soft as butter and Henry is having a decent year in Hamilton. We are not going to make the playoffs. Call Henry up and let him play in Montreal.

But.......Alex Henry can fight so that goes against the Gauthier plan.

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02-03-2012, 03:21 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
To be a real 4th liner you must be capable of being at least a fringe NHL level player. Which means being at least a good player at the AHL level.
Not every tough grinder like Schultz in the NHL have been superstar in the AHL. Comon now..

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02-03-2012, 03:26 PM
  #60
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Not every tough grinder like Schultz in the NHL have been superstar in the AHL. Comon now..
Wow, how much do you like tilting at strawmen.

Not super star. Didn't say had to be a superstar. I did say they need to be a good player in the AHL. Critical difference there. So a guy like Conboy that can play 2nd/3rd line in the AHL has a chance. A guy like Shultz that can't crack the top nine doesn't. White and Blunden weren't stars in the A but they were good players.

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02-03-2012, 03:26 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
Not every tough grinder like Schultz in the NHL have been superstar in the AHL. Comon now..
At this point in his career, Schultz isn't even a grinder. Grinding implies killing minutes. At an NHL-paced game, Schultz would jump on the ice, fight someone, go to the box, and then hopefully skate off the ice fast enough so that he doesn't hurt the team.

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02-03-2012, 03:29 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
At this point in his career, Schultz isn't even a grinder. Grinding implies killing minutes. At an NHL-paced game, Schultz would jump on the ice, fight someone, go to the box, and then hopefully skate off the ice fast enough so that he doesn't hurt the team.
Hmmmm. Wasnt Schultz part of the blockbuster deal for Halak that is rated as one of the best trades ever for Gauthier?

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02-03-2012, 03:35 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Hmmmm. Wasnt Schultz part of the blockbuster deal for Halak that is rated as one of the best trades ever for Gauthier?
Hmmmm.... Doug Janik is a nobody and we traded him to the Rangers in one of the worst ever trades by Gainey.

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02-03-2012, 03:38 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Agree 100%.

And what is with the hate of Alex Henry by Gauthier?

Our D is soft as butter and Henry is having a decent year in Hamilton. We are not going to make the playoffs. Call Henry up and let him play in Montreal.

But.......Alex Henry can fight so that goes against the Gauthier plan.
I'm happy to see that few guys like you knows how hockey should be play.

Players who can fight can't play hockey according to Gauthier and his fan here. Henry would be more useful to this team than Gill deal with it !

After the game against Buffalo when Darche said that Gaustad words were classless bla bla... If it was that bad, why did you do nothing during the game ? Looser ! Shut your mouth and act on the ice !

Gauthier will trade Moen at the deadline and we will have 0 guy able to drop the gloves. And I am not talking of a goon. NOBODY can fight in this team if Moen is not here. That's a shame. Ok, we have White but he did not play since 8 months...

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02-03-2012, 03:41 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Wow, how much do you like tilting at strawmen.

Not super star. Didn't say had to be a superstar. I did say they need to be a good player in the AHL. Critical difference there. So a guy like Conboy that can play 2nd/3rd line in the AHL has a chance. A guy like Shultz that can't crack the top nine doesn't. White and Blunden weren't stars in the A but they were good players.
Actually Schultz is playing very good hockey at the moment on the Dogs third line. And even Derek, the dogs announcer, said the other day that Schultz is playing the best hockey of his career.

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02-03-2012, 03:46 PM
  #66
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Actually Schultz is playing very good hockey at the moment on the Dogs third line. And even Derek, the dogs announcer, said the other day that Schultz is playing the best hockey of his career.
So he's finally made that step forward. Great. That's a recent enough development that he's still probably not up for NHL ice. I was talking about guys that have actually established themselves as top niners in the AHL, not just made the step (as you said, he's playing his best hockey of his career, which means he's ridding hot right now, not playing at a level he's established himself at).

The gap between the NHL and the AHL is huge.

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02-03-2012, 03:53 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
So he's finally made that step forward. Great. That's a recent enough development that he's still probably not up for NHL ice. I was talking about guys that have actually established themselves as top niners in the AHL, not just made the step (as you said, he's playing his best hockey of his career, which means he's ridding hot right now, not playing at a level he's established himself at).

The gap between the NHL and the AHL is huge.
I'm agree with that step between the NHL and AHL. But it's an individual case for each player. I remember Pierre Sevigny and Patrick Poulin who were great players in Junior/AHL but can't translate it to the NHL. It's obviously the same thing for Palushaj. At the opposite, a player like Michael Ryder was bad at the AHL level and he become a solid 2nd liner in the NHL.

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02-03-2012, 04:03 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
I'm agree with that step between the NHL and AHL. But it's an individual case for each player. I remember Pierre Sevigny and Patrick Poulin who were great players in Junior/AHL but can't translate it to the NHL. It's obviously the same thing for Palushaj. At the opposite, a player like Michael Ryder was bad at the AHL level and he become a solid 2nd liner in the NHL.
By the time Ryder graduated from the AHL he was a great player at that level. He was just your classic late bloomer. Which happens, albeit rarely.

While its individual and certainly dependant on role, you would agree that there needs to be a certain level of play established before a successful jump upwards becomes reasonably likely right? There is a threshold above which a player needs to be before the jump is even worth trying and I don't think Shultz is there. His day may come but I don't think its now.

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02-03-2012, 04:17 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
I'm agree with that step between the NHL and AHL. But it's an individual case for each player. I remember Pierre Sevigny and Patrick Poulin who were great players in Junior/AHL but can't translate it to the NHL. It's obviously the same thing for Palushaj. At the opposite, a player like Michael Ryder was bad at the AHL level and he become a solid 2nd liner in the NHL.
Ryder was a ppg in his last year and had 34 goals to lead his team in scoring, the top team in the AHL that year.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...007912003.html

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02-03-2012, 04:56 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
Actually Schultz is playing very good hockey at the moment on the Dogs third line. And even Derek, the dogs announcer, said the other day that Schultz is playing the best hockey of his career.
Yes, hes taking steps forward and looks better than he ever has.

No, he's not NHL ready, yet.

He's finally developping, why would you want to stunt that growth by calling him up to the NHL right now before he's ready, and destroying all the confidence that he's just built up?

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02-03-2012, 05:10 PM
  #71
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Yes, hes taking steps forward and looks better than he ever has.

No, he's not NHL ready, yet.

He's finally developping, why would you want to stunt that growth by calling him up to the NHL right now before he's ready, and destroying all the confidence that he's just built up?
Enquist,Pulshaj and Leblanc are not ready either and there up

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02-03-2012, 05:12 PM
  #72
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Enquist,Pulshaj and Leblanc are not ready either and there up
They are much closer than Shultz.

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02-03-2012, 05:46 PM
  #73
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Ryder was a ppg in his last year and had 34 goals to lead his team in scoring, the top team in the AHL that year.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...007912003.html
It was a great season for him, but the years before were not easy He was sent down to the ECHL the year before

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=35679

I miss players like him who scored goals right after their jump in the NHL

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02-03-2012, 05:48 PM
  #74
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Hmmmm. Wasnt Schultz part of the blockbuster deal for Halak that is rated as one of the best trades ever for Gauthier?
lol.

they day Gauthier traded for Schultz, he said something to him to the effect,

we don't have any guys like you ....lol

If i find the article,i will post it.

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02-03-2012, 06:17 PM
  #75
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They are much closer than Shultz.
Not really cause they are there to put points on the board and will take them much longer to get there then like a guy like Shultz who we would like for him to be there for a physical presence and to provide toughness. I think they should give him a shot for atleast 10 games since we are out of playoffs now and see what he can do.

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