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ATD 2012 Lineup Advice Thread

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Old
02-01-2012, 10:04 PM
  #51
Dreakmur
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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Oh dear.
Do you think Ted Lindsay can drive wide, and power his through Larry Robinson to get to the net?

Just because I don't think somebody is a power forward doesn't mean I don't think they don't bring a big physical dimension. It just means they aren't going to overpower guys.

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02-01-2012, 10:15 PM
  #52
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Are people satisfied with how a top pairing of Nicklas Lidstrom and Larry Murphy can handle power forwards by their domination of the Legion of Doom?

My division is kind of stacked with power forwards
I don't really think it's a matter of power forwards, despite not being a bruiser, Lidstrom is strong. The problem is crease crashing. (This is why even if Lindsay isn't a power forward, he'd be effective.) Especially when combined with strong high slot shooting. A Lidstrom-Murphy pairing will do three things very well. 1) Neutralize passing lanes. 2) Deny a meaningful path to the net for the puck carrier. 3) Quickly move recovered pucks out of harms way, especially on dump and chase plays. (Brodeur helps a lot.) This would neutralize cycling, dump and chase, side board or office playmaking and other strategies. The most viable strategy would be to just get traffic on net, get the puck on net and try and make something work. And honestly, that sounds like a defence pairing that works in most situations. But I'd make sure you have a crease clearer to take Murphy's spot on the PK.

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02-01-2012, 10:20 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Are people satisfied with how a top pairing of Nicklas Lidstrom and Larry Murphy can handle power forwards by their domination of the Legion of Doom?

My division is kind of stacked with power forwards
lidstrom struggled more vs forsberg than anyone, so it is good you have both.

imo, softness around the net is lidstrom's main weakness. LOD were not really able to create anything, so it was not a problem. lidstrom is more defensive minded than offensive minded, so his partner should have some offensive ability.

DoMakc once said in ATD that the ideal partner for lidstrom is larry robinson, and i was thinking earl seibert. robinson would obviously be better, but you would need multiple 1st round picks to get him and lidstrom.

you could switch lidstrom's partner depending on matchups.


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I did some research on Howe, but never really found much evidence for the style people seem to think he played. Not much on defense, physical play, or puck-winning. I look forward to seeing a good bio on him...
almost all the results in google's news archive are pay per view. much harder to find american papers than canadian.

windsor daily star should have some good information.

markrander already quoted something i posted about howe as "all-around best," but i know a check by howe put bill cowley in the hospital in '41 or '42.

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Old
02-01-2012, 10:21 PM
  #54
Dreakmur
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
I don't really think it's a matter of power forwards, despite not being a bruiser, Lidstrom is strong. The problem is crease crashing. (This is why even if Lindsay isn't a power forward, he'd be effective.) Especially when combined with strong high slot shooting. A Lidstrom-Murphy pairing will do three things very well. 1) Neutralize passing lanes. 2) Deny a meaningful path to the net for the puck carrier. 3) Quickly move recovered pucks out of harms way, especially on dump and chase plays. (Brodeur helps a lot.) This would neutralize cycling, dump and chase, side board or office playmaking and other strategies. The most viable strategy would be to just get traffic on net, get the puck on net and try and make something work. And honestly, that sounds like a defence pairing that works in most situations. But I'd make sure you have a crease clearer to take Murphy's spot on the PK.
Thanks - I agree with that.

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02-01-2012, 10:36 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Do you think Ted Lindsay can drive wide, and power his through Larry Robinson to get to the net?

Just because I don't think somebody is a power forward doesn't mean I don't think they don't bring a big physical dimension. It just means they aren't going to overpower guys.
Probably not...but who can? Are there only 2-3 Power forwards then in this thing if that's the criteria?

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It's not. Sometimes people just realize things about players after researching that they didn't notice before. Hooley Smith and his playoffs this year,for instance.

Hey i'm use to it by now, i've already dug up some great info on Howe's all around game.

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02-01-2012, 10:48 PM
  #56
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Probably not...but who can? Are there only 2-3 Power forwards then in this thing if that's the criteria?
There are lots of guys who combine speed, skill, and power.

Gordie Howe, Mario Lemieux, Jean Beliveau, Bobby Hull, Maurice Richard, Howie Morenz, Jaromir Jagr, Mark Messier, Bill Cook, Charlie Conacher, Frank Mahovlich, etc.

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02-01-2012, 11:14 PM
  #57
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you can count on two things in this world: The Leafs giving up 2-3 goal leads, and everyone having their own personal definition for the team "power forward".

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02-02-2012, 12:13 AM
  #58
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you can count on two things in this world: The Leafs giving up 2-3 goal leads, and everyone having their own personal definition for the team "power forward".
True 'nuff. I'm thinking, replace speed with mean streak.

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02-02-2012, 12:26 AM
  #59
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True 'nuff. I'm thinking, replace speed with mean streak.
Still leaves guys like Lindsay and Moore off the list.... but at least Nels Stewart would be there now!

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02-02-2012, 12:42 AM
  #60
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Still leaves guys like Lindsay and Moore off the list.... but at least Nels Stewart would be there now!
Yup. And I'm not sure that works. Problem, is, no definition just really works perfectly.

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02-02-2012, 01:02 AM
  #61
Dreakmur
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Yup. And I'm not sure that works. Problem, is, no definition just really works perfectly.
No definition of Power Forward should include guys like Lindsay and Moore.

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02-02-2012, 01:04 AM
  #62
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I disagree. But, we're clearly not going to convince each other of anything, so having this conversation would be a waste of our time.

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02-02-2012, 01:15 AM
  #63
Dreakmur
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I disagree. But, we're clearly not going to convince each other of anything, so having this conversation would be a waste of our time.
I can see it when people disagree about my speed requirement. I can also see it when they disagree with my omission of toughness/mean streak.

If, however, you really think power shouldn't be a prerequisite to being labelled a power forward, this definately is a waste of time.

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02-02-2012, 02:40 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
There are lots of guys who combine speed, skill, and power.

Gordie Howe, Mario Lemieux, Jean Beliveau, Bobby Hull, Maurice Richard, Howie Morenz, Jaromir Jagr, Mark Messier, Bill Cook, Charlie Conacher, Frank Mahovlich, etc.
Ted Lindsay and Dickie Moore are a lot closer to being power forwards than Mario Lemieux, Jaromir Jagr, and Frank Mahovlich...

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02-02-2012, 02:58 AM
  #65
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Ted Lindsay and Dickie Moore are a lot closer to being power forwards than Mario Lemieux, Jaromir Jagr, and Frank Mahovlich...
If you believe toughness is more important than power in your definition of a power forward, then that would be true.


As I've said before, I believe a big part of being a power forward is the ability to just muscle your way through defenders and plow your way to the net. The guys I named are all good at that. The fact that they can't beat people up is meaningless for me.

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02-02-2012, 03:20 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
If you believe toughness is more important than power in your definition of a power forward, then that would be true.


As I've said before, I believe a big part of being a power forward is the ability to just muscle your way through defenders and plow your way to the net. The guys I named are all good at that. The fact that they can't beat people up is meaningless for me.
Whether you think a power forward should fight or not, shouldn't he at least initiate contact once in awhile?

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02-02-2012, 03:41 AM
  #67
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Whether you think a power forward should fight or not, shouldn't he at least initiate contact once in awhile?
You mean hitting, so I'll respond to that as though you said hitting. I would want all my players to hit, but some don't. My classification of power forward involved what they do on offense.

As much as they don't hit, all the players I listed often do initiate contact when they have the puck.

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Old
02-02-2012, 07:46 AM
  #68
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Denneny - Nighbor - ______
______ - Oates - Hextall Sr.

what kind of players would you put into these empty spaces?

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02-02-2012, 08:03 AM
  #69
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Denneny - Nighbor - ______
______ - Oates - Hextall Sr.

what kind of players would you put into these empty spaces?
BPA at their respective positions. You've built these lines so far with a lot of balance. Both units have playmaking, puckwinning, goalscoring and defense (obviously one more than the other) already, so you can pretty much put in the best player available in those remaining wing spots. Maybe a bit of research on Hextall's career would be helpful, as well. I don't know if a really detailed bio has been done on him.

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02-02-2012, 09:38 AM
  #70
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I will make a Hextall Bio and will try to make a decent one at that if possible.

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02-02-2012, 10:52 AM
  #71
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BPA at their respective positions. You've built these lines so far with a lot of balance. Both units have playmaking, puckwinning, goalscoring and defense (obviously one more than the other) already, so you can pretty much put in the best player available in those remaining wing spots. Maybe a bit of research on Hextall's career would be helpful, as well. I don't know if a really detailed bio has been done on him.
Agree. BPA. And not anytime soon, either. focus on other parts of your lineup now. then come back and try to get two BPAs to complete that line. the RW should ideally be on the tough side, and the LW should ideally be on the goal scoring side.

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Old
02-03-2012, 06:38 PM
  #72
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Thoughts on:

Phillips-Apps-Iginla as a line?

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Old
02-03-2012, 06:42 PM
  #73
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Nice balance of passing, shooting, defence, skating and puck winning. But I'm not sure how Iginla will do as the trailer on the play.

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02-03-2012, 07:00 PM
  #74
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Thoughts on :

Syd Howe- Stan Mikita- Lanny McDonald

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Old
02-03-2012, 09:22 PM
  #75
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What do you guys think, Reardon with Howe or Babe?

Leaning towards Babe.

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