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Palushaj sent down (Feb. 6)

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Old
02-03-2012, 06:31 PM
  #76
Talks to Goalposts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lions999 View Post
Enquist,Pulshaj and Leblanc are not ready either and there up
Leblanc can play third line pretty well at this point. If your able to do that playing in the AHL or NHL is pretty much a toss up.

Engqvist can play 4th line without completely embarrassing himself although he hasn't done great there. Same with Palushaj. Plus those two are getting to the point where they have to show some NHL ability to be worth much as prospects so 4th line duty isn't a bad way to get their feet wet. Schultz is a long way away from that.

What gets lost in these toughness discussions is that a player needs a certain level of ability to play hockey for their toughness to matter.

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02-03-2012, 06:57 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
What gets lost in these toughness discussions is that a player needs a certain level of ability to play hockey for their toughness to matter.
Please, don't make me laugh.

We would have a debate of who would be better on our 4th line between Chris Niel or Shawn Thornton vs Aaron Palushaj and you would come here saying that Palushaj has a better shot and skating. You don't get the concept the diversity, plain and simple.

It's like that cookie on top of the counter you can't reach, you end up convincing yourself that it either sucks or is old and disgusting. Well a lot of fans, media and mangement did the same thing about toughness, we've lacked it for so freacking long people have started convincing themselves with ridiculous theories that it's useless.

Oh and btw, Ian Schultz is a hell of a lot closer of being an effective 4th liner than Palushaj is of bring an effective top 6 winger, that's how you should compare the players! Replacing Travis Moen with Palushaj is retarded, which goes on with the rest of the dumb management decision this season.

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Old
02-03-2012, 07:00 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Hmmmm.... Doug Janik is a nobody and we traded him to the Rangers in one of the worst ever trades by Gainey.

I really dont know why you posted that in a response to me. I think that Gauthier and Gainey are equally inept as GMs.

The advantage that Gainey has is that he was an incredible hockey player for the Habs and for that I will forever be thankful.

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02-03-2012, 07:03 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
I'm happy to see that few guys like you knows how hockey should be play.

Players who can fight can't play hockey according to Gauthier and his fan here. Henry would be more useful to this team than Gill deal with it !

After the game against Buffalo when Darche said that Gaustad words were classless bla bla... If it was that bad, why did you do nothing during the game ? Looser ! Shut your mouth and act on the ice !

Gauthier will trade Moen at the deadline and we will have 0 guy able to drop the gloves. And I am not talking of a goon. NOBODY can fight in this team if Moen is not here. That's a shame. Ok, we have White but he did not play since 8 months...
Agree, that was embarassing to the Canadiens organization. If you are not going to settle things on the ice, then dont look foolish making cutesy little comments after the game is done. Very immature and weak.

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02-03-2012, 07:04 PM
  #80
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For those who are advocating bringing up Shultz, I'd like to know, how many Bulldogs games they have actually watched this season?

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02-03-2012, 07:05 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I really dont know why you posted that in a response to me. I think that Gauthier and Gainey are equally inept as GMs.

The advantage that Gainey has is that he was an incredible hockey player for the Habs and for that I will forever be thankful.
The point was Shultz was the throw in on that deal, not the key piece who is Lars Eller.

Just like Janik was the throw in to the Gomez deal. I dont think it matters that he was useless, the Rangers still win the deal handily because they got McDonagh who was one of the two key pieces in the deal for them. Heck it doesn't even matter that the second half of their two key pieces (Higgins) did nothing as a Ranger.

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02-03-2012, 07:11 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
For those who are advocating bringing up Shultz, I'd like to know, how many Bulldogs games they have actually watched this season?
Read Maxpac's post above.

Engqvist, Palushaj and Leblanc are not 4th liners. In the convoluted system of Gauthier, Martin (formerly) and RC, the 4th line is just a line to put your inexperienced players or in Martin's case, the doghouse victims.

Meanwhile, in the majority of other NHL teams, the 4th line plays a role. Just like the 1st and 2nd line play a role. Just like the 1st and 2nd wave of the PP play a role. Just like the top 4 D play a role. And just like the PKers play a role.

Except in Montreal where square pegs are constantly being tried to fit in round holes in the one size/one role fits all.

And we wonder why we are damned near at the bottom.

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02-03-2012, 07:13 PM
  #83
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People want to call up Shultz and HENRY? Really?

Dropping the gloves won't help our powerplay. It won't change our excellent penalty kill and these players are definitely going to affect our decent 5 on 5 play negatively.

Its a good tanking move tho obviously but its much better giving Weber, Palushaj and other young players some ice time. Henry has no potential whatsoever and Shultz only stands to see his confidence destroyed, he's not NHL ready.

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02-03-2012, 07:15 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Read Maxpac's post above.

Engqvist, Palushaj and Leblanc are not 4th liners. In the convoluted system of Gauthier, Martin (formerly) and RC, the 4th line is just a line to put your inexperienced players or in Martin's case, the doghouse victims.

Meanwhile, in the majority of other NHL teams, the 4th line plays a role. Just like the 1st and 2nd line play a role. Just like the 1st and 2nd wave of the PP play a role. Just like the top 4 D play a role. And just like the PKers play a role.

Except in Montreal where square pegs are constantly being tried to fit in round holes in the one size/one role fits all.

And we wonder why we are damned near at the bottom.
Answer the question. How many games have you seen Shultz play this season in Hamilton?

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02-03-2012, 07:16 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Please, don't make me laugh.

We would have a debate of who would be better on our 4th line between Chris Niel or Shawn Thornton vs Aaron Palushaj and you would come here saying that Palushaj has a better shot and skating. You don't get the concept the diversity, plain and simple.

It's like that cookie on top of the counter you can't reach, you end up convincing yourself that it either sucks or is old and disgusting. Well a lot of fans, media and mangement did the same thing about toughness, we've lacked it for so freacking long people have started convincing themselves with ridiculous theories that it's useless.

Oh and btw, Ian Schultz is a hell of a lot closer of being an effective 4th liner than Palushaj is of bring an effective top 6 winger, that's how you should compare the players! Replacing Travis Moen with Palushaj is retarded, which goes on with the rest of the dumb management decision this season.
Shawn Thornton and Chris Neil are both good enough to be good 4th or 3rd liners in the NHL. Their toughness matters because they are good enough to use it. Laraque's or Greg Stewart's toughness didn't matter because they weren't good enough at hockey for it to matter. That has to be the most important dividing line. Toughness on the bench is worth nothing. Toughness on the bench does nothing to diversify your game. Toughness than isn't involved in the play doesn't do anything to help diversify your game.

Palushaj maybe can play at that level. Those two are clearly better. The point isn't that toughness is worthless, its that it makes no sense to downgrade your lineup in the search for it. If a guy can't play like an NHLer he shouldn't play in the NHL. No matter how many guys he hits.

Now with how Montreal runs its lines what matters for Palushaj is how close he to playing top nine wing. As an AHL star he's closer to that than a Shultz is to being a 4th line winger. Again, Blunden fills that role but not very well but is bad at it. White did it fairly well last year. Look at how the gap between what kind of AHLer he was and the kind of AHLer Shultz is right now. You want him at least at Blunden level and probably more like White before making the jump.


Last edited by Talks to Goalposts: 02-03-2012 at 07:22 PM.
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02-03-2012, 07:17 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Its a good tanking move tho obviously but its much better giving Weber, Palushaj and other young players some ice time. Henry has no potential whatsoever and Shultz only stands to see his confidence destroyed, he's not NHL ready.
Exactly... you don't bring up a kid who can barely play in the AHL and only recently started making progress and throw him to the dogs of the NHL at 21. Thats quite simply not how you develop a hockey player.

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02-03-2012, 07:22 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
People want to call up Shultz and HENRY? Really?

Dropping the gloves won't help our powerplay. It won't change our excellent penalty kill and these players are definitely going to affect our decent 5 on 5 play negatively.

Its a good tanking move tho obviously but its much better giving Weber, Palushaj and other young players some ice time. Henry has no potential whatsoever and Shultz only stands to see his confidence destroyed, he's not NHL ready.


I disagree with you regarding the value of toughness and fighting in hockey. But that is for another thread.

So I will accept your premise this time. And I could agree with you IF we were in 6th or 7th place and fighting to move up in the playoff picture.

But we're not.

What is the point of Palushaj coming up to play the 4th line? Engqvist? There isnt one. It is not improving their game. At least Schultz could have taken on Gaustad instead of relying on Cole and Darche to make cute sarcastic comments safely in the locker room after the game.

So Henry is useless? Gill? Pylon of the year award. Henry is the only DMan in Hamilton to have a positive +/-. He could do better than Gill. He could do no worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Answer the question. How many games have you seen Shultz play this season in Hamilton?
Zero. See above. I can tell you that I never saw Palushaj or Engqvist play in Hamilton either. But I can tell you that the roles they are being given when they are called up is not progressing their game either.

What's your point? If you watch more games of hockey you become a better expert?

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02-03-2012, 07:23 PM
  #88
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Tangradi a healthy scratch tonight - I say has to be Kostitsyn (with Palusaj's recall)?

Tangradi-Lovejoy-2nd 2012

for

Kostitsyn+Gill

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02-03-2012, 07:24 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by AcadiaAxeMan View Post
Tangradi a healthy scratch tonight - I say has to be Kostitsyn (with Palusaj's recall)?

Tangradi-Lovejoy-2nd 2012

for

Kostitsyn+Gill
It could be that Tangradi isn't very good.

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02-03-2012, 07:26 PM
  #90
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It could be that Tangradi isn't very good.
Which is why Gauthier will probably trade for him.

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02-03-2012, 07:27 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Zero. See above. I can tell you that I never saw Palushaj or Engqvist play in Hamilton either. But I can tell you that the roles they are being given when they are called up is not progressing their game either.

What's your point? If you watch more games of hockey you become a better expert?
No my point is that if I've seen Shultz play, and I'm telling you he's nowhere close to NHL ready and is not ready for even a fourth line role... don't tell me he is, when you've never seen him play.

Edit Shultz just scored. His first goal in 15 games!

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02-03-2012, 07:28 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I disagree with you regarding the value of toughness and fighting in hockey. But that is for another thread.

So I will accept your premise this time. And I could agree with you IF we were in 6th or 7th place and fighting to move up in the playoff picture.

But we're not.

What is the point of Palushaj coming up to play the 4th line? Engqvist? There isnt one. It is not improving their game. At least Schultz could have taken on Gaustad instead of relying on Cole and Darche to make cute sarcastic comments safely in the locker room after the game.

So Henry is useless? Gill? Pylon of the year award. Henry is the only DMan in Hamilton to have a positive +/-. He could do better than Gill. He could do no worse.



Zero. See above. I can tell you that I never saw Palushaj or Engqvist play in Hamilton either. But I can tell you that the roles they are being given when they are called up is not progressing their game either.

What's your point? If you watch more games of hockey you become a better expert?
they should call Henry, and play him rest of year.

I think will all see he's capable of the 7th dman spot.
He really should have made the team out of camp few yr ago...shafted tho.


Reminds me how the Habs burried Sanford....no reason he couldnt be back up in Montreal for 650,000.....

8 12 4 on the Blue Jackets 912 sv%

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02-03-2012, 07:29 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I disagree with you regarding the value of toughness and fighting in hockey. But that is for another thread.

So I will accept your premise this time. And I could agree with you IF we were in 6th or 7th place and fighting to move up in the playoff picture.

But we're not.

What is the point of Palushaj coming up to play the 4th line? Engqvist? There isnt one. It is not improving their game. At least Schultz could have taken on Gaustad instead of relying on Cole and Darche to make cute sarcastic comments safely in the locker room after the game.

So Henry is useless? Gill? Pylon of the year award. Henry is the only DMan in Hamilton to have a positive +/-. He could do better than Gill. He could do no worse.
The point is to get them playing in the NHL, against NHLers and seeing what they can do. At their age its no so much about improving their skills (they've got most of what they'll ever have there) but seeing if they can use them in the best league in the world. They're already star level players in the AHL, the amount of growth to be done there is limited.

That's what Desharnais did second half last season and look what it got them this year. At a certain point you have to play NHLers to be an NHLer and with the season lost it might as well be now.

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02-03-2012, 07:33 PM
  #94
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Engelland-Tangradi+2nd, 2012

Kostitsyn+Gill

do it?

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02-03-2012, 07:34 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by AcadiaAxeMan View Post
Engelland-Tangradi+2nd, 2012

Kostitsyn+Gill

do it?
Absolutely.

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02-03-2012, 07:34 PM
  #96
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no

We'd get more than that package by trading kosty and gill individually IMO

Gill on his own is worth a 2nd.

Kostitsyn on his own is worth more than Tangradi (a guy who is looking like a bust) and a 6th Dman in Engelland.

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02-03-2012, 07:37 PM
  #97
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No my point is that if I've seen Shultz play, and I'm telling you he's nowhere close to NHL ready and is not ready for even a fourth line role... don't tell me he is, when you've never seen him play.

Edit Shultz just scored. His first goal in 15 games!


You should say that more often about Schultz.

I am not disagreeing with you. All I am saying is that Engqvist and Palushaj are not NHL ready either. And they keep showing up. Schultz needs a taste of the NHL as well. Hell, he could surprise us. Never will know if he does not get a chance.

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02-03-2012, 07:38 PM
  #98
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Engelland-Tangradi+2nd, 2012

Kostitsyn+Gill

do it?
Hell yeah. In a heartbeat.

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02-03-2012, 07:39 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by AcadiaAxeMan View Post
Tangradi a healthy scratch tonight - I say has to be Kostitsyn (with Palusaj's recall)?

Tangradi-Lovejoy-2nd 2012

for

Kostitsyn+Gill
Tangradi hasn't shown anything that impresses me yet at the NHL level. He's hardly done anything note-worthy at the AHL level.

If that's all Kostitsyn fetches, give him his 3.5-3.75M a year to stay here and be done with it.

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02-03-2012, 07:40 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
The point is to get them playing in the NHL, against NHLers and seeing what they can do. At their age its no so much about improving their skills (they've got most of what they'll ever have there) but seeing if they can use them in the best league in the world. They're already star level players in the AHL, the amount of growth to be done there is limited.

That's what Desharnais did second half last season and look what it got them this year. At a certain point you have to play NHLers to be an NHLer and with the season lost it might as well be now.

Schultz and Henry agree with you!!!!

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