HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Nashville Predators
Notices

Your Thoughts on Kevin Klein

View Poll Results: What do you think of Kevin Klein?
I like Klein 29 69.05%
I don't like Klein 10 23.81%
I couldn't care less 2 4.76%
Upshall's hair (for old times' sake) 14 33.33%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-04-2012, 10:26 AM
  #26
Enoch
This is my boomstick
 
Enoch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chattanooga TN
Country: United States
Posts: 12,492
vCash: 500
Klein is a really talented player. He absolutely is a 2nd pairing defensemen both in play and skill. The problem is he makes more gaffes than you would like to see out of a guy that has become our number 3. This isn't a problem in a lineup that is veteran laden. When your bottom pairs are essentially full of rookies and inexperienced d-men, it is much more evident and problematic. When Suter makes a mistake, he has Weber to cover for him. When Weber makes him a mistake, Suter is there to cover for him. Klein doesn't have that luxury. Hamhuis had similar struggles here if you recall and is now excelling with a veteran partner that compliments him. For what we are paying Klein, we really have no room to be upset. If anything, be upset that Klein has not had an adequate partner for much of the season (Josi seems to have corrected that, its a shame that Blum stagnated to start the year.)

__________________
- Enoch -
Enoch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2012, 12:08 PM
  #27
glenngineer
Registered User
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,924
vCash: 500
Let me throw one more number into this equation. If we're going to consider plus/minus as a stat to evaluate Klein, 101 showed Klein's numbers over the last 2 months. Weren't Weber and Suter in the high teens, low twenties early in the season? Now where are they? Weber is still at 17 but he's come down some since he was in the 20's and Suter is at +8. So if we're going to quantify the numbers game, it appears Klein has been on the ice a lot more when we score at even strength than the big guys lately.

One other thing to consider, someone mentioned, well, we almost got scored on when Klein was out there. Did they score? No. We're going to give up opportunities to the other team. Every line and every pairing it's going to happen to. Once again, focusing on the three things Klein did wrong as opposed to everything else he did correctly. Talk about perfectionist complex's.

glenngineer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2012, 12:33 PM
  #28
roseyc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,064
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
All I can say is glasses. I've watched Klein since the day he arrived. My eyes say something completely different than yours.

So say we jettison him away, who fills his spot in the lineup? You want Hillen or Boullion on the second pairing? That's what Trotz would do.

And for all the talk that he's not very good, if he wasn't, why does Trotz keep putting him out there and have him on the PK? Hmmmmm, yeah, he sucks.
And for all the talk that he's not very good, if he wasn't, why does Trotz keep putting him out there and have him on the PK? Hmmmmm, yeah, he sucks

Because we don't have anybody better not to say that Josi or Ellis won't be in the coming years which they will surpass Klein. He is better than the Cube or Hillen(which he should be gone) SOB played on the pk last year does that mean he was good. No he wasn't a good skilled defenseman. Klein has more years than our organizational guys and better skills than they guys we've brought in but he lacks for a second line d.Blum absence didn't make Klein better Josi did

roseyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2012, 02:41 PM
  #29
VFL615*
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Middle Tennessee
Country: United States
Posts: 735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Let me throw one more number into this equation. If we're going to consider plus/minus as a stat to evaluate Klein, 101 showed Klein's numbers over the last 2 months. Weren't Weber and Suter in the high teens, low twenties early in the season? Now where are they? Weber is still at 17 but he's come down some since he was in the 20's and Suter is at +8. So if we're going to quantify the numbers game, it appears Klein has been on the ice a lot more when we score at even strength than the big guys lately.

One other thing to consider, someone mentioned, well, we almost got scored on when Klein was out there. Did they score? No. We're going to give up opportunities to the other team. Every line and every pairing it's going to happen to. Once again, focusing on the three things Klein did wrong as opposed to everything else he did correctly. Talk about perfectionist complex's.
Its funny how things get spinned in a way people want them to appear. Take a look at Kleins stats he has never gotten better or shown any improvement since he was at the NHL level. The facts are there and i am still waiting on an explaination on the things i pointed out in an earlier post. That is just one game and what highlights showed. Let me type it again. 1 GAME and HIGHLIGHTS ONLY OF 1 GAME. Watch a game and see for youself an then come on here and have a debate.

VFL615* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2012, 02:56 PM
  #30
Drake744
Unregistered User
 
Drake744's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Nashville
Posts: 2,338
vCash: 500
Plus/minus means next to nothing. That's why the stat has been considered for deletion. Klein is USUALLY okay but in my mind he's a ticking time bomb for a big mistake. He had a huge mistake in Philly and it cost us a goal. I don't know if that's "expected" or if my mindset is just geared for expecting him to screw up. Whatever the case may be I think he's adequate but if we had better options he would be gone so fast no one here would ever miss him.

Drake744 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2012, 03:05 PM
  #31
101st_fan
I taught Yoda
 
101st_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Some Army fort
Country: United States
Posts: 5,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake744 View Post
Plus/minus means next to nothing. That's why the stat has been considered for deletion. Klein is USUALLY okay but in my mind he's a ticking time bomb for a big mistake. He had a huge mistake in Philly and it cost us a goal. I don't know if that's "expected" or if my mindset is just geared for expecting him to screw up. Whatever the case may be I think he's adequate but if we had better options he would be gone so fast no one here would ever miss him.
Klein's big mistake at Philly was in the offensive zone. When other players on our team make similar mistakes, nothing is said. When those other players make goal costing gaffes in the defensive end, little to nothing is said.

He is a 2nd pair talent who makes mistakes from time to time. Weber and Suter are top pair talents who make mistakes from time to time (just look at Philly and Minnesota for some of their recent brain farts). His good plays far outnumber his poor ones, but those mistakes get all of the attention here.

101st_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2012, 03:09 PM
  #32
VFL615*
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Middle Tennessee
Country: United States
Posts: 735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Klein's big mistake at Philly was in the offensive zone. When other players on our team make similar mistakes, nothing is said. When those other players make goal costing gaffes in the defensive end, little to nothing is said.

He is a 2nd pair talent who makes mistakes from time to time. Weber and Suter are top pair talents who make mistakes from time to time (just look at Philly and Minnesota for some of their recent brain farts). His good plays far outnumber his poor ones, but those mistakes get all of the attention here.
I have watched a lot of hockey. Sorry the last line is simply false.

VFL615* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2012, 03:20 PM
  #33
ThirdManIn
Mod Supervisor
 
ThirdManIn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 43,450
vCash: 500
The last line is actually true

ThirdManIn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2012, 03:30 PM
  #34
Drake744
Unregistered User
 
Drake744's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Nashville
Posts: 2,338
vCash: 500
I agree with 101st that we point out Klein more than others. As a defenseman you can't make that mistake though. With that said, I'm not sure he makes "good plays" as often as some people imply , but he's just a 2nd pairing version of Hillen.......he stays quiet and then when a good or bad play is made it's amplified. He's fine, I've said that......but I do wish he was a 3rd pairing guy (if we had enough depth to send him down to that point)

Drake744 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2012, 03:43 PM
  #35
101st_fan
I taught Yoda
 
101st_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Some Army fort
Country: United States
Posts: 5,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake744 View Post
I agree with 101st that we point out Klein more than others. As a defenseman you can't make that mistake though. With that said, I'm not sure he makes "good plays" as often as some people imply , but he's just a 2nd pairing version of Hillen.......he stays quiet and then when a good or bad play is made it's amplified. He's fine, I've said that......but I do wish he was a 3rd pairing guy (if we had enough depth to send him down to that point)
When that same mistake is made by Weber or Suter nothing is said. When Weber and Suter get split and undressed during the Wild game, crickets. So ... if those are mistakes a defenseman can't make, the consistent thing is to call them out just as loudly.

Few teams have the depth to put a guy of Klein's talent on the third pair.

101st_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2012, 04:18 PM
  #36
Paranoid Android
ERMAHGERD
 
Paranoid Android's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 11,495
vCash: 500
Yeah, in no way is Klein only a 3rd pairing guy. He's a solid #4 dman.

Paranoid Android is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2012, 06:59 AM
  #37
glenngineer
Registered User
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,924
vCash: 500
VFL, if you say I only watch 1 game or so a year, so be it. I have rarely missed a game since about 2002. That being said, say what you will about Klein and the fact that he's on the PK. Lots of guys have come and gone since he's been here yet he continues to get those minutes. If we don't have anybody better, one of two things is happening, either you're right or Trotz believes in Klein's defensive abilities.

If we want to talk about mistakes, how the first shift last night and the golden opportunity Suter gave up. Poor pass right up the middle of the ice. Is that the type of play a second or third pairing player makes or an elite defenseman makes. It shouldn't happen either way but for a guy like Suter to make that mistake is worse since we count on him to make better decisions.

How about Josi's mistake? Not going to rail on a rookie here but I'm sure people will find a way to blame Klein for that goal. Josi and Spaling are back to take on one guy yet Josi makes a poor decision, gets picked and they score.

If Klein made more bad plays than good plays during a game, he wouldn't be playing on a nightly basis. Think about it, 1 out of every 2 times he touches the puck he makes a mistake. That's what some of you are saying, he makes more bad plays than good ones. No one can make that many mistakes in the NHL and keep playing.

Whether or not anyone wants to believe this, Klein is one of the reasons for the success of this team and I emphasize the word team. You don't have to like him, you don't have to praise him, I could care less what you think of him but for people to be shortsighted and not see the value that the guy brings on a nightly basis is absurd.

glenngineer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2012, 11:55 AM
  #38
101st_fan
I taught Yoda
 
101st_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Some Army fort
Country: United States
Posts: 5,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
VFL, if you say I only watch 1 game or so a year, so be it. I have rarely missed a game since about 2002.

But do you watch with your blindfold so you miss anything positive Klein does?

101st_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2012, 11:58 AM
  #39
Joe T Choker
Roll Wide Roll
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Country: Italy
Posts: 23,219
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
But do you watch with your blindfold so you miss anything positive Klein does?

Joe T Choker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2012, 12:08 PM
  #40
dulzhok
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,528
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
Hamhuis had similar struggles here if you recall and is now excelling with a veteran partner that compliments him. For what we are paying Klein, we really have no room to be upset. If anything, be upset that Klein has not had an adequate partner for much of the season (Josi seems to have corrected that, its a shame that Blum stagnated to start the year.)
So Hamhuis struggled on the 2nd pair because he didn't have a reliable defensive partner?

Let me try to remember who his defensive parter was... oh yeah, KLEIN!

Not all 2nd pair defensemen are created equal. Klein is on the low end due to his way too frequent gaffes. If we didn't have Rinne, he's mistakes would be even more amplified.

dulzhok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2012, 12:16 PM
  #41
Enoch
This is my boomstick
 
Enoch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chattanooga TN
Country: United States
Posts: 12,492
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
So Hamhuis struggled on the 2nd pair because he didn't have a reliable defensive partner?

Let me try to remember who his defensive parter was... oh yeah, KLEIN!

Not all 2nd pair defensemen are created equal. Klein is on the low end due to his way too frequent gaffes. If we didn't have Rinne, he's mistakes would be even more amplified.
Hamhuis is better than Klein. I used them as comparables because they both make frequent, inexplicable, defensive gaffes. Hamhuis far less frequently than Klein. They were not compatible as a pairing. Klein needs a rock-steady defensive stay-at home type of partner to truly counter his infrequent, but extremely high risk turnovers. We do not have someone aside from Suter/Weber who can do that.

Klein is a number 4. Not a number 3. Not a number 5. Our problem is we do not have a consistent/non-rookie 2nd pairing defensemen that can counter his inconsistencies.

Enoch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2012, 01:20 PM
  #42
VFL615*
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Middle Tennessee
Country: United States
Posts: 735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
The last line is actually true
Actually it is not. Again how many games have you been to and watched this year?
Hope you enjoyed going to your first game of the year for you b-day. It was a good one! Klein actually played decent for you to see first hand. I only caught him out of position about 3 times and he did not give up a big play. He tried to be a forward again on one play by deking and he got it blocked. Thank goodness no other players were around to pick up the deflected puck. Ellis held his own and played really well. He deserves to be on the 2nd line with Josi.

VFL615* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2012, 01:24 PM
  #43
VFL615*
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Middle Tennessee
Country: United States
Posts: 735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
But do you watch with your blindfold so you miss anything positive Klein does?
Yeah that makes since since i see pretty clearly the mistakes he makes and explain them on here. No one has been able to defend him. I only see the well so and so makes mistakes. Well, he is cheap and a steal. Excuses because people cannot exept facts on a player on their beloved team.

VFL615* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2012, 01:58 PM
  #44
Drake744
Unregistered User
 
Drake744's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Nashville
Posts: 2,338
vCash: 500
double post

Drake744 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2012, 02:39 PM
  #45
glenngineer
Registered User
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,924
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VFL615 View Post
Yeah that makes since since i see pretty clearly the mistakes he makes and explain them on here. No one has been able to defend him. I only see the well so and so makes mistakes. Well, he is cheap and a steal. Excuses because people cannot exept facts on a player on their beloved team.
Yet when someone says Suter or Weber makes the same mistakes you become silent? I see Klein leading the team in blocks. I see a guy who has cleared the blue paint of the puck on numerous occasions in his career. I see him standing up for his teammates. I see him joining the play with his skating ability. I see him on the PK constantly. I see him eating up 20+ minutes a night. I see his play has improved dramatically with a good PMD in Josi. He separates players from the puck with good positioning. I also see gaffes that he makes. He will make poor decisions with the puck. He can get caught up ice as well.

glenngineer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2012, 08:22 AM
  #46
VFL615*
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Middle Tennessee
Country: United States
Posts: 735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Yet when someone says Suter or Weber makes the same mistakes you become silent? I see Klein leading the team in blocks. I see a guy who has cleared the blue paint of the puck on numerous occasions in his career. I see him standing up for his teammates. I see him joining the play with his skating ability. I see him on the PK constantly. I see him eating up 20+ minutes a night. I see his play has improved dramatically with a good PMD in Josi. He separates players from the puck with good positioning. I also see gaffes that he makes. He will make poor decisions with the puck. He can get caught up ice as well.
Actually that is not the case. I have mentioned several times on this beloved board that Weber and Suter have not been playing well since the all star break.

Being on the ice taking up minutes does not mean he is doing good things. Sure he is serviceable. He is not horrible and does not deserve to be on a local roller blade hockey team but the fact is he makes more MISTAKES than he does GAME CHANGING GOOD PLAYS. I have proven that with facts and examples. Peka has saved his and other teamates ass way to many times. If it was not for him this team would not be half of what it is.

I think it is best just to agree to disagree. I could say the sky is high and you would argue it not really that high.

VFL615* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2012, 08:45 AM
  #47
barrytrotzsneck
Retired Global Mod
 
barrytrotzsneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 31,042
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VFL615 View Post
Actually that is not the case. I have mentioned several times on this beloved board that Weber and Suter have not been playing well since the all star break.

Being on the ice taking up minutes does not mean he is doing good things. Sure he is serviceable. He is not horrible and does not deserve to be on a local roller blade hockey team but the fact is he makes more MISTAKES than he does GAME CHANGING GOOD PLAYS. I have proven that with facts and examples. Peka has saved his and other teamates ass way to many times. If it was not for him this team would not be half of what it is.

I think it is best just to agree to disagree. I could say the sky is high and you would argue it not really that high.
you really started taking on water when you claimed Ellis was better than Klein defensively and should be on the second pairing.

barrytrotzsneck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2012, 09:07 AM
  #48
barrytrotzsneck
Retired Global Mod
 
barrytrotzsneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 31,042
vCash: 500
To that end, and to illustrate a point I made earlier, the relative corsi rating of opponents\quality of competition is probably the best metric for determining how "hard" a player's minutes are.

For how much Ryan Ellis has wowed you defensively, he's ranked dead last on the team--behind even Teemu Laakso and Mattias Ekholm-- in both categories. Your whipping boy Klein? Third, behind Suter and Weber. Looking at Ellis's rankings against the past couple of seasons...the notoriously sheltered Cody Franson was playing "harder" minutes than the Rocketship, as well.

Klein isn't a perfect second pairing defenseman, but his statistics measure up more or less with most in the league that play a similar role, in similar statistically-defined situations. The numbers tell a tale that you can't really argue with, but i recognize that Klein, like Legwand of years past, has his bashers that will turn their nose up at any statistic presented, simply because "i just watch him, and he sucks."

barrytrotzsneck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2012, 09:23 AM
  #49
SavageSteve
Registered User
 
SavageSteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 429
vCash: 500
I like Klein for the most part; but like a child, IMO he seems like a guy you naturally have to keep some pressure on him by riding him to keep him focused or else he gets cocky and starts making mistakes by playing ahead in his mind and not the moment. We'll cheer for him high atop 304 when he does something exceptional; but we try to keep him in check too by reminding him to 'not suck'!

SavageSteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2012, 09:41 AM
  #50
glenngineer
Registered User
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,924
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VFL615 View Post
Actually that is not the case. I have mentioned several times on this beloved board that Weber and Suter have not been playing well since the all star break.

Being on the ice taking up minutes does not mean he is doing good things. Sure he is serviceable. He is not horrible and does not deserve to be on a local roller blade hockey team but the fact is he makes more MISTAKES than he does GAME CHANGING GOOD PLAYS. I have proven that with facts and examples. Peka has saved his and other teamates ass way to many times. If it was not for him this team would not be half of what it is.

I think it is best just to agree to disagree. I could say the sky is high and you would argue it not really that high.
So let's do this. Take out the MISTAKES and GAME CHANGING GOOD PLAYS as you called them. During the course of a game or season, there really aren't that many. Now look at all the regular plays he makes that he doesn't do either of those. Hmmmm, his body of work suggests he plays the game pretty well.

And in reality, the sky isn't that high if you consider everything above and beyond it, outer space, so no, the sky really isn't that high since once you hit the atmosphere, we're in outer space which isn't the sky anymore.

glenngineer is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:23 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.