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Old
02-04-2012, 04:35 PM
  #76
Fred Glover
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At the next home game, watch the scoreboard when the Jackets come out before a period. There you will see Jeff Carter giving his teammates encouragement before they hit the ice. My question is if he is doing that, how is he a cancer? How is he not a team player? I think the problem with Carter is not that he doesn't want to be here, I think it is team chemistry, and that finger points directly at Scott Howson. Carter is a good player, who hasn't meshed with Nash, who has been injured for most of the season, but when in the game and healthy he scores goals. He doesn't seem to be much in the defensive end, but he is a good player on a bad team.

I won't be upset if we trade him, it all depends on what we get back. But FWIW I don't think Carter is the issue here for the Jackets. A scapegoat, maybe, but he isn't the problem. Fix the defense and goaltending, there is our problem.

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02-04-2012, 05:04 PM
  #77
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I was watching Carter last night and have to admit he played well and with interest. I liked what I saw.

Not sure what I missed but Carter isn't a cancer. He isn't even an illness. He's just there.

Chemistry happens when teams are winning. I really wish we would stop focusing on chemistry unless we are talking about who is dating who. It's overrated and overblown. The guys will bond when they win. Ay the same time, Carter will be happy when he finds his mojo. He's used to being a big deal and he will be a big deal here when he puts up the numbers.

Can't believe I'm the one defending him. LOL

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02-04-2012, 05:08 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Fred Glover View Post
At the next home game, watch the scoreboard when the Jackets come out before a period. There you will see Jeff Carter giving his teammates encouragement before they hit the ice. My question is if he is doing that, how is he a cancer? How is he not a team player? I think the problem with Carter is not that he doesn't want to be here, I think it is team chemistry, and that finger points directly at Scott Howson. Carter is a good player, who hasn't meshed with Nash, who has been injured for most of the season, but when in the game and healthy he scores goals. He doesn't seem to be much in the defensive end, but he is a good player on a bad team.

I won't be upset if we trade him, it all depends on what we get back. But FWIW I don't think Carter is the issue here for the Jackets. A scapegoat, maybe, but he isn't the problem. Fix the defense and goaltending, there is our problem.
And you have to trade quality to get quality to do exactly that.

When you have Brassard, Johansen, MacKenzie, Jenner, Letestu, and Vermette (hopefully not for much longer), Carter is, as the Brits would say, a "surplus requirement." I can see a day relatively soon when Brassard, Johansen and Jenner are ALL better than Carter.

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02-04-2012, 05:21 PM
  #79
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The problem is this is Nash's team but he doesn't take on that mantra. Great players find ways to win and Carter is used to that type of play. When the leader is laid back and disengaged it's not Carter's place to usurp the leader.

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02-04-2012, 05:29 PM
  #80
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And you have to trade quality to get quality to do exactly that.

When you have Brassard, Johansen, MacKenzie, Jenner, Letestu, and Vermette (hopefully not for much longer), Carter is, as the Brits would say, a "surplus requirement." I can see a day relatively soon when Brassard, Johansen and Jenner are ALL better than Carter.
A bit early to be drinking heavily isn't it?

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02-04-2012, 05:30 PM
  #81
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Not convinced Carter should be traded either.

That said, if the package is Carter + Mason, how much extra "value" does taking Mase's contract add for us? If we get a 1st plus a roster player and get out from under Mason's final year, maybe it's about the same net as what we sent out for Carter.

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02-04-2012, 05:57 PM
  #82
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Not convinced Carter should be traded either.
I'm not convinced his agent hasn't asked for a trade either. If he wants out, he wants out. Nothing we can do about it. No sense fighting against it.

If he wants to stay then he better up his game or there is no reason to keep him.

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02-04-2012, 08:00 PM
  #83
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On Hot Stove Elliotte Friedman said he talked to Carter's agent and the NTC was not reinstated after the trade by Columbus.

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02-04-2012, 08:20 PM
  #84
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The problem is this is Nash's team but he doesn't take on that mantra. Great players find ways to win and Carter is used to that type of play. When the leader is laid back and disengaged it's not Carter's place to usurp the leader.
Ding Ding Ding.... Tell'em what he's won.

I think Carter is doing the best with a bad situation right now. I think the fact that he's not out, leading from the front vocally is what the canadian and big market media is jumping all over, that he's personally miserable. The guy can't change the culture himself, it would be unfair to ask it of him already and certainly not fair if we ask him and not Nash to pitch in to help change it.

I think he's still a bit upset by the trade, especially since he went from a Cup Contender to a prennenial doormat that shows no signs of losing that label in the future.

I don't think Carter is a Ra Ra kind of guy, but that he expects more than what this organization and its.... lets say, "established" players, want to give. talk about a culture shock, Carter is proof of it. The question (after, obviously, if he's requested a trade) is will he eventually grow to accept this and find his own place in the "circle of suck" or will he demand more.

I'd best compare it to a veteran getting demoted to the minors. Sure, there are guys that try hard night in and night out, but they have to just to stay in the minors, then you have your players where they've mastered the ability to have more than enough talent and never fully utilize it in their roles.

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02-04-2012, 09:34 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
On Hot Stove Elliotte Friedman said he talked to Carter's agent and the NTC was not reinstated after the trade by Columbus.
@Aportzline To be clear: #CBJ C Jeff Carter does NOT have a no-trade clause in his contract.

@Aportzline Nor does Carter's no-trade w Philadelphia transfer to the #CBJ. The two side could have agreed to one, but that has never happened.

If it is true that he has no NTC then there really is not reason to be in a hurry to trade him until the right deal comes along and IMO that is not going to happen before the dead line.

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02-04-2012, 09:46 PM
  #86
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A bit early to be drinking heavily isn't it?
I'm an OU grad. It's never too early.

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02-04-2012, 10:00 PM
  #87
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And you have to trade quality to get quality to do exactly that.

When you have Brassard, Johansen, MacKenzie, Jenner, Letestu, and Vermette (hopefully not for much longer), Carter is, as the Brits would say, a "surplus requirement." I can see a day relatively soon when Brassard, Johansen and Jenner are ALL better than Carter.
I don't believe you or I or anyone else will ever live to see the day when Jenner or Brassard is even equal to Carter. I'm shocked you think that.

If Jenner pans out, at best he's a Manny Malhotra or a Michael Peca. A heart and soul 3rd line grinder. Tough defense, in your face and the ability to play up for a few games at a time. maybe 10-15 goals and 30-40 points. Brassard can grow to be a decent 2nd line center, maybe a 55-60 point guy. Carter is the FOURTH leading goal scorer in the league overall the previous five seasons.

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02-04-2012, 10:09 PM
  #88
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I don't believe you or I or anyone else will ever live to see the day when Jenner or Brassard is even equal to Carter. I'm shocked you think that.

If Jenner pans out, at best he's a Manny Malhotra or a Michael Peca. A heart and soul 3rd line grinder. Tough defense, in your face and the ability to play up for a few games at a time. maybe 10-15 goals and 30-40 points. Brassard can grow to be a decent 2nd line center, maybe a 55-60 point guy. Carter is the FOURTH leading goal scorer in the league overall the previous five seasons.
Is that a result of the team he's on or his contribution to the team? I suspect it's the latter. Otherwise, why would Philly even consider moving him?
While I may have overstated by including Jenner on that list, I believe Carter doesn't fix what ails the CBJ, not even a little bit.

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02-04-2012, 10:38 PM
  #89
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Is that a result of the team he's on or his contribution to the team? I suspect it's the latter. Otherwise, why would Philly even consider moving him?
While I may have overstated by including Jenner on that list, I believe Carter doesn't fix what ails the CBJ, not even a little bit.
I've followed Philly since the early 70s and know them as well as I know the CBJ. Carter was moved for TWO reasons: Chris Pronger and Ed Snider's demands they get a goaltender.

Pronger didn't like Mike Richards and resented having Richards as captain of the Flyers. Carter and Richards (along with Umberger) broke in together. They started together with the Phantoms, winning a Calder Cup. They moved to the big team together and were the leaders of a damn good team. Pronger and Richards are both very strong personalities and they clashed from the first day Pronger joined the Flyers. He expected Richards to show him deference. What had been a strong dressing room with great chemistry quickly became divided. One group was loyal to Richards, another group was loyal to Pronger. Richards and Carter, having been together since the 2003 draft are great friends. Carter would have been a reminder of the old leadership group Pronger had banished.

At the same time after the loss to the Bruins in the playoffs, the Flyers' owner Ed Snider threw a now famous tantrum. He went off on GM Paul Holmgren in a semi-public setting telling him he had been personally embarassed and Holmgren would get him a franchise goalie or he was gone. Holmgren traded for Bryzgalov and signed him to a 9 year $51 million contract and the Flyers had a cap problem. This was really secondary, because of the Pronger problem.

On the other hand, Philadelphia is a way different situation than Columbus. They have a deep strong defense that is so good, that when they lost Pronger, the blue line is still good enough to be a solid playoff team. The entire organization, from Ed Snider on down demands excellence. The fans don't tolerate anything less than that. Go back and look up the quote about Voracek and accepting the accoutability and demand for success in Philly. It's very much like the comments by Malhotra about the Sharks dressing room.

I shouldn't have to tell you that Chris Pronger is/was a franchise defenseman, a supreme competitor and a complete ass. You've seen his act enough at Edmonton and Anaheim.

As far as Philly fans are concerned, the ones who said NO WAY they would trade Carter, and then started posting that Carter is a bum and Mr. High and Right after he was traded, remember Phiily fans are the fans who booed Santa Claus. Go to the Wells Fargo Center and you will see a crazy bunch of hyper critical people.
Most Flyers fans are like any other fans, people who just want to cheer their team and have a good time. There is a vocal minority that makes Pens fans look docile. They are the ones posting trash about Carter.

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02-05-2012, 03:06 AM
  #90
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If Carter is indeed on the block which is speculation: Scuderi/Bernier/2nd (this draft) for Carter.... Resign Sanford, send Mason down or buy out....

I don't think we need an offensive defenseman with Wiz and Moore all ready on the roster (I think he sticks), Sanford could start and help Bernier along, Anahiems second is going to be around the 33rd pick... THe cap hits would be close... (LA eats a million)

I doubt they do it but if they did the CBJ improve; on defense, in goal and the future...

Scuderi is a team guy and leader..


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02-05-2012, 07:32 AM
  #91
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Lee, please. Carter does not "fix" what ails the CBJ? If you take away Carter, we are on a pace to have ONE friggin 20 goal scorer (two if Brass picks up his pace). On a team that averages 2 goals per game, you don't think a guy like Carter who can score 30-40 a season helps fix the scoring problem? Talk about hyperbole !

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02-05-2012, 09:14 AM
  #92
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I'm an OU grad. It's never too early.
Court Street or Union? Fellow Bobcat here. I understand.

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02-05-2012, 09:45 AM
  #93
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Court Street or Union? Fellow Bobcat here. I understand.
I actually worked part time at Mom's Carry Out during my tenure at OU. Mom sez, "Beer is good for you!". I've still got my T-Shirt somewhere.

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02-05-2012, 10:31 AM
  #94
leesmith
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Lee, please. Carter does not "fix" what ails the CBJ? If you take away Carter, we are on a pace to have ONE friggin 20 goal scorer (two if Brass picks up his pace). On a team that averages 2 goals per game, you don't think a guy like Carter who can score 30-40 a season helps fix the scoring problem? Talk about hyperbole !
Not hyperbole, statistics. Carter hasn't scored 40 goals in a season since 2008 - and that's with the Flyers talent. If he played all 82 games at his current pace, he'd finish the season with 27 goals. Secondly, he was brought here to be Nash's #1 center. How are Nash's numbers this season compared to last season? Now let's compare CBJ team scoring this season to last season.

I can't help but think we can find a 27 goal scorer without much difficulty that will help Nash score more, will make his teammates around him better, will act like he gives a sh** about something other than himself, and won't carry a decade long contract obligation.


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02-05-2012, 10:45 AM
  #95
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Here's an interesting discussion among HockeyBuzz bloggers on the topic:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Hocke...rter/160/41889

For the record, I don't like any of the proposals and want to give the Nash/Carter combo another try, next season. Sure, both have had bad seasons, but I expect both to bounce back and I want it to happen here.

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02-05-2012, 11:36 AM
  #96
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Here's an interesting discussion among HockeyBuzz bloggers on the topic:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Hocke...rter/160/41889

For the record, I don't like any of the proposals and want to give the Nash/Carter combo another try, next season. Sure, both have had bad seasons, but I expect both to bounce back and I want it to happen here.
From that piece, Richard Cloutier echoes many of the things I've said here. So obviously, I like his point of view.
The guys who suggested we trade Carter to Detroit or Nashville are either drunk, high or stupid.

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02-05-2012, 12:37 PM
  #97
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We have not found a 27 goal scorer who made Nash better in the entire history of the franchise. And I, for one, do not see Carter is such a one dimensional role, "Nash's center", as you do. And if he scores 27 goals, he will be the second highest goal scorer on the team,as I said, one of only two 20 goal scorers we have. Plus his 27 goals will include having missed 20 % of the season due to injuries. You do know that at his current pace, Nash would not score 27 goals if you subtract 20% of the season. We have had only 2 30 goal scorers in the history of the franchise, Nash and Sandy. And you would dump the guy who is the most likely to be the third 30 goal man in our history? WITH HOWSON MAKING THE TRADE? Lee, think man, come back off the ledge.

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02-05-2012, 12:49 PM
  #98
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We have not found a 27 goal scorer who made Nash better in the entire history of the franchise. And I, for one, do not see Carter is such a one dimensional role, "Nash's center", as you do. And if he scores 27 goals, he will be the second highest goal scorer on the team,as I said, one of only two 20 goal scorers we have. Plus his 27 goals will include having missed 20 % of the season due to injuries. You do know that at his current pace, Nash would not score 27 goals if you subtract 20% of the season. We have had only 2 30 goal scorers in the history of the franchise, Nash and Sandy. And you would dump the guy who is the most likely to be the third 30 goal man in our history? WITH HOWSON MAKING THE TRADE? Lee, think man, come back off the ledge.

I tend to agree here. if you factor in that missing two long stretches had to affect his timing and any chemistry that might exist, I think he might be viewed as a 30+ goal scorer IF he stays healthy.

Also if he is a shoot first guy, why not just make him a wing and have RyJo and Brass or Grigerenko be the top two centers?

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02-05-2012, 12:51 PM
  #99
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Lee, please. Carter does not "fix" what ails the CBJ? If you take away Carter, we are on a pace to have ONE friggin 20 goal scorer (two if Brass picks up his pace). On a team that averages 2 goals per game, you don't think a guy like Carter who can score 30-40 a season helps fix the scoring problem? Talk about hyperbole !
Carter certainly helps with the potential improvement to the offense but without a 5 man unit working in possession of the puck it doesn't matter who we have on offense. I think Carter and Nash on separate lines helps the offense much more than them playing together. However, the confidence of this team with the defense and goaltending has limited any offensive effort/success.

At this point if the value is there to upgrade the back end (Defense and Goaltending) I think moving Carter is a good option. Given his effort against the Ducks (very good I thought) I would love to see this all fall by the wayside and have him stick. Unfortunately, if that's the case where does the upgrade to the back come from?

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02-05-2012, 01:05 PM
  #100
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I tend to agree here. if you factor in that missing two long stretches had to affect his timing and any chemistry that might exist, I think he might be viewed as a 30+ goal scorer IF he stays healthy.

Also if he is a shoot first guy, why not just make him a wing and have RyJo and Brass or Grigerenko be the top two centers?
I don't agree with the former, but STRONGLY agree with your latter point (props to you). He's not doing what he was brought here to do, but could be part of the solution in another role if his attitude improved. Separating him from Nash might also keep him from taking scoring opportunities away from Nash.

The problem is I also agree with Xoggz22. We need improvement on defense and in goal more than we need Carter.


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