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2011-12 All Purpose Kings Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread IV

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Old
02-04-2012, 03:31 PM
  #126
KingPurpleDinosaur
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I don't follow this thread normally, but we should get Kovy! Man, if I saw this video during the year he signed with NJ, i actually would have been a proponent of getting the guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aywypSGFDwo

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Old
02-04-2012, 04:15 PM
  #127
Stupid Sexy Flanders
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I'd offer Bernier, Voynov & Penner for Nash. (CBJ could flip Penner for picks.)

Also D. Jones from COL would be a good fit.

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02-04-2012, 04:19 PM
  #128
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This is a little bit out there but over the last couple of days I have been dealing with a GM from an eastern team buying some equipment from the company I work for his house and as part of the deal I went with I would discount it another 10% percent if he would give up one of his young LW for one of our PMD men,he laughed but said we have a treasure chest bof them and should be able to get some help with them,wouldn't say anything else though

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02-04-2012, 04:25 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
I would love Helm and would add a D prospect along with Stoll if needed....but Helm would probably be the perfect pickme up on the bottom six...
Helm isnt going anywhere for Jarret Stoll, hes not untouchable but it would have to be in a pretty big trade
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Detroit won't trade Emmerton. Period.


a rookie who makes Detroits line up?


yea I doubt the oldest team in hockey trades one of their youthful assets. Doesn't make a lick of sense for them, neither does trading Helm, or Abdelkader, or Kindl, or Tartar, or Nyquist, or Andersson, or Mursak, or Smith. Unless they are getting youth in return.
Detroit wouldnt think twice about trading Emmerton if the right deal came up, he will have a bit of value and they have a surplus of bottom 6 guys right now. Kindl will also more then likely be on the trade block as well. One of Andersson or Emmerton is all the wings need really and they could do without either if the right trade came along

Nyquist and Smith are the only untouchables I would say... you gotta trade young guys a lot to make cup runs, youth doesnt win cups experience does and Detroit looks poised for a deep run in what could be Lidstroms last year

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02-04-2012, 04:52 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur View Post
I don't follow this thread normally, but we should get Kovy! Man, if I saw this video during the year he signed with NJ, i actually would have been a proponent of getting the guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aywypSGFDwo


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Old
02-04-2012, 05:07 PM
  #131
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I have always been a HUGE fan of both Mike Richards and Jeff Carter, so I was so happy when the Kings traded for Richards (even at the expense of Schenn). But I think Jeff Carter has this reputation as a soft, party boy who got his money and doesn't care anymore. That's unfair and could not be any further from the truth.
If you want to question the guy's durability, then okay that is justified because he has been banged up pretty consistently in the playoffs. But the guy is tougher than he's given credit for. And for all the talk of how he's always hurt, he's still played 80, 74, 82, and 82 games in his last 4 seasons. Not bad, eh?

In the 09 playoffs vs Pittsburgh, he played the final few games of that series with a separated shoulder. In 2010, he was coming into the playoffs having just healed from a broken left foot. Then a few games into the Devils series, he breaks his other foot. He was expected to be lost for the playoffs but came back halfway through the Montreal series. In 2011, he sprained his knee pretty badly and still fought his way back for the final couple of games.

The guy broke both his feet in a span of four months. He could've just mailed it in and said see you next year, why risk any long term damage, let me heal up and be fully healthy going into my contract year so I can cash in. Instead, he fought hard to get back, played through pain, and did his best to try to help the team.

And the suggestion that he and Richards were shipped out strictly due to their off-ice partying and locker room issues is garbage in my opinion. Maybe they played a small role, but the major reason they were traded was to improve the team.

Holmgren looked at his roster after another disappointing end to his season and saw a team loaded with top tier centers: Richards, Carter, Briere, and an emerging Giroux. How many 1st/2nd line centers can you have? He also felt the team lacked some size and talent on the wing. He picked two of these 4 centers to go forward with and dealt the other two off to improve the weaknesses of his team -- talent on the wing and goaltending.

How did he come to the decision of Carter and Richards? Well, in Giroux you have a 23 year old center coming off a 75+ point season who is an excellent skater and two way player with a cap hit of $3.75 million for the next 3 years. You're not trading him. Danny Briere has been by far one of the best playoff performers in the league for the past few years, dating back to his days in Buffalo. In 97 career playoff games, the guy has 42 goals and 54 assists for a total of 96 points. Consistent production like that in the playoffs is extremely hard to find. Plus, how much are you truly going to get in return for a 34 year old center who is under contract for 4 more years at a cap hit of $6.5 million? There's no way you're going to get good enough value to trade him, especially when you consider how important he's been in the playoffs for the Flyers.

So then you have Mike Richards and Jeff Carter, both in the prime of their careers and both with their stocks as high as they'll ever likely be. If you trade these guys, you're going to get excellent value. You will for sure get back some great young pieces that you can build with for years, while also clearing some cap space to make a run at Bryzgalov. And Holmgren did just that.

He added some the talent, playmaking, and grit to the wing with Voracek and Simmonds (and also by signing Jagr). He also got Briere's eventual replacement in Brayden Schenn, a future 1st/2nd line center. He also got a few draft picks ranging from rounds one to three over the next two years, one of which he used on another young center in Sean Couturier to continue to restock his talent down the middle.

When you look at what Holmgren did, the trades were more about business and upgrading the team than "cleaning out the locker room." The Flyers finally thought they had their big-time goalie (the thing that has kept them from winning the Cup for so long). They also got younger and better on the wings, while still having an immense amount of talent down the middle with Briere, Giroux, Schenn, Couturier, Talbot, etc.

The only guy you say "How can you trade that guy?" about is Mike Richards. The epitome of a two way center that can shutdown a guy like Datsyuk with his skating and physical play, quarterback a power play, lead a team by example, and score clutch goals for you in the playoffs. It's a combination of the value they were able to get for him (Simmonds and Schenn) as well as the alleged power struggle in the locker room between him and Pronger that had supposedly existed for a while. But even so, it's more about what they were able to get back. A "future Mike Richards" in Schenn who will replace Briere as a top line center as Briere's career winds down and immediate help on the wing in Simmonds.

You can't sit there and say that the Flyers are not better prepared for the future after these trades. You still have your elite top 2 centers in Giroux (24) and Briere (34), and a center that will eventually become a top flight center in Schenn (20) and another promising young center in Courturier (19). You now have some serious young talent on the wings in JVR (22), Voracek (22), Simmonds (23), Read (25). So you took your two "extra centers" in Richards and Carter and turned them into two young and highly talented centers (Schenn and Couturier) and two young, underrated, and talented wingers (Voracek and Simmonds). That sounds like something Dean Lombardi would do -- looking to get better as you get younger.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So any suggestion that the Kings should not go after Carter because he is soft, lazy, or a bad influence on Richards is insane. Lombardi should look to cash in big time on Carter's all-time low value. He is exactly the type of player this team likes to build with and exactly the type of player this team needs. We do not need one of these soft, lazy, enigmatic Russian players like Alex Semin or Kovalchuk whose 40 goals look great on NHL.com but are so overrated and unproductive when the playoffs come. There's a reason Kovalchuk has never been on a team that has won a playoff series and Semin is a big part of why the Caps are upset early in the playoffs each year.

Carter is a sniper who can put the puck in the net but also plays a fairly physical brand of hockey. He's not afraid to mix it up, go into the dirty areas, and bang bodies. He is a mix of a power forward and sniper who has also improved his two way game as he's gotten older. You can put him out in almost any situation and feel pretty confident in him (power play, even strength, penalty kill, last two minutes of a game). A versatile power forward who can play wing or center, immediately help our lackluster scoring, and a guy who has some chemistry from his days of playing with Richards.

I look at the fact that he's very tight with Richards as a positive. You can't tell me that Richards won't have a little extra "pep in his step" if he is reunited with his best friend. I would expect the addition of Carter to elevate Richards' level of play. Carter's adjustment to the LA area would also be an easier transition due to the fact that he can assimilate more easily as he already knows guys like Richards and Gagne.

Carter's value is at an all-time low. There are question marks surrounding his durability, his "attitude," and his level of play. A lot of people bang the "17 points in 30 games" point home. I didn't know that Columbus was a place where you rack up the high point totals year after year. After all, Rick Nash is a perennial 65 point player, yet he's still considered one of the best power forward wingers in the game because his skillset is far greater than his production and his production is average because he's "on Columbus."

So why doesn't Carter get the same benefit of the doubt? He's shown he can be a 30 to 40 goal scorer consistently when he's on a good team. His point total will generally be around 70. He's scored his fair share of game winning goals. It is the perfect time to buy low on him. Columbus wants to move him pretty badly to unload that contract, and I assume they'd want to trade him before his NTC kicks in for the 2012-13 season so they can trade him where-ever they want without him potentially vetoing a deal (although I can't really see him vetoing any deal that would free him from Columbus). Columbus knows they will never get back anything like what they gave up for him (Voracek and 1st and 3rd round picks).

Columbus needs a franchise goalie, as Mason has flamed out. The Kings can offer Bernier. The Kings have a surplus of quality defenseman, something any rebuilding team would like to get their hands on. Yes, as a Kings fan, I'd love to see Rick Nash on this team. I'd love to see Zach Parise on this team. But why go after Rick Nash and his $7.8 million cap hit and pay a King's Ransom for his services and be saddled with a cap hit close to $8 million per year? And are we really going to put all our eggs in the basket of signing Parise when we don't even know if he'd want to come here and when we've been outbid/not chosen consistently over the years for free agents like Kovalchuk or Gaborik?

It just seems much more logical to go after Carter and his reasonable $5.2 million cap hit for the long term. You're getting a versatile forward who can play center or wing, a guy that clearly fits your team's style of play, the elusive "sniper" who can pot 30-40 consistently and stimulate this offense, and you're giving up significantly less assets than you would be if you went after Nash. There are plenty of people who will say Nash is the better player, and in reality, he may be. But is the drop off between Nash and Carter that great that it's worth giving up more assets and clogging the cap with nearly $3 million more per year? I don't think so.

Give me Carter, where we get to keep more of our assets and have greater cap flexibility while still addressing the need of adding an upper echelon sniper/power forward/scorer.

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Old
02-04-2012, 05:46 PM
  #132
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Speaking of Philly, I'd love to have Simmonds back. According to advanced stats he is shoting the puck 13 times and game and is producing. He's not getting the puck on goal enough considering the fact he's shooting as much as Ovechkin and he's not playing the same style as he played in LA but that's all good when you are putting the puck in the net. It just goes to show how stifled the Kings players have been over the last few years is when you have what we considered a straight up grinder who can chip in a bit playing in a huge offensive capasity. I'd like to have him back.

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Old
02-04-2012, 06:11 PM
  #133
Sydor25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cook24 View Post
I would think teams would be a little more desperate at the deadline than they would during the offseason. Teams going for the cup or trying to make the playoffs give up more than they should.
Carter is a long term commitment, not used for a final month cup push. Which cup contender would need the long term commitment for Carter?

I think carter would go to a fringe playoff team, maybe Buffalo.

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Old
02-04-2012, 06:55 PM
  #134
Buddy The Elf
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Carter is a long term commitment, not used for a final month cup push. Which cup contender would need the long term commitment for Carter?

I think carter would go to a fringe playoff team, maybe Buffalo.
The Kings are a fringe playoff team at this point.

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Old
02-04-2012, 07:24 PM
  #135
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Matt Barry reporting Lombardi is taking in the Manch/Bridgeport game tonight.

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Old
02-04-2012, 07:25 PM
  #136
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Speaking of Philly, I'd love to have Simmonds back. According to advanced stats he is shoting the puck 13 times and game and is producing. He's not getting the puck on goal enough considering the fact he's shooting as much as Ovechkin and he's not playing the same style as he played in LA but that's all good when you are putting the puck in the net. It just goes to show how stifled the Kings players have been over the last few years is when you have what we considered a straight up grinder who can chip in a bit playing in a huge offensive capasity. I'd like to have him back.
I'm going to ****ing kill myself.

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Old
02-04-2012, 07:39 PM
  #137
Sydor25
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The Kings are a fringe playoff team at this point.
I know, but others are saying that he would go to a contender. I think he goes to a non-contender too.

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Old
02-04-2012, 07:51 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
I'm going to ****ing kill myself.
Why dude is dead on with the Simmonds stats and comments. He is playing like a monster this year. Richards is invisbile again tonight.

We traded two great young players for an under-rated, undersized player who is 3 years older than Simmonds and makes just over 3 times as much. The deal depleted Manchester, Schenn would either be down there killing it or in LA playing on the left wing to Stoll or Loktionov. Simmonds would look good on that 3rd line as well.

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Old
02-04-2012, 07:53 PM
  #139
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Although our main need seems to be a top six winger, I wouldn't mind if we added a little more grit to the blueline depth, we seem to have a ton of puckmovers, and not many shutdown guys or intimidating Dmen. I'd like to see a trade for depth/ options especially considering Mitchell might get a better offer. How about swapping Martinez for a Peckham like player. Who would be a good pickup?

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Old
02-04-2012, 08:03 PM
  #140
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Simmonds has been the best Flyer since January IMO.

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02-04-2012, 09:11 PM
  #141
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Simmonds has been the best Flyer since January IMO.
he is playing at a level i never thought he could play at. He is amazingly strong for being light.

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02-04-2012, 09:17 PM
  #142
Ziggy Stardust
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Matt Barry reporting Lombardi is taking in the Manch/Bridgeport game tonight.
Good idea to avoid watching his sh!tty NHL team that he's assembled.

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Old
02-04-2012, 09:19 PM
  #143
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he is playing at a level i never thought he could play at. He is amazingly strong for being light.
That's something many Kings fans found out quickly about Simmonds. When he plays his game, he's great. When he tried playing a different style, he suffered. Nice to see he's simplified his game again, it's working out for him.

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02-04-2012, 09:20 PM
  #144
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I hope Lombardi loses his job.

I just took a shower and tried to imagine the line-up without the poor decisions Lombardi has made. I would kill to get the depth back of Teubert, Schenn and picks.

Can you imagine without the Richards deal and the horrible deals of Penner, Purcell and letting go Moulson?

Moulson-Kopitar-Williams
Gagne-Stoll-Brown
Purcell-Schenn-Simmonds
Clifford-Fraser-Richardson/Lewis

And we would still have a 2nd round pick and Teubert in Manchester.

So Gagne is still hurt, fine shift Lewis up or call up Loktionov and move Schenn to 2nd line LW.

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02-04-2012, 09:25 PM
  #145
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That's something many Kings fans found out quickly about Simmonds. When he plays his game, he's great. When he tried playing a different style, he suffered. Nice to see he's simplified his game again, it's working out for him.
The key with him is matching him up with a center that can control the puck and enter the zone with it and just let simmonds battle in the corners and in front of the net.

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Old
02-04-2012, 09:32 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
I hope Lombardi loses his job.

I just took a shower and tried to imagine the line-up without the poor decisions Lombardi has made. I would kill to get the depth back of Teubert, Schenn and picks.

Can you imagine without the Richards deal and the horrible deals of Penner, Purcell and letting go Moulson?

Moulson-Kopitar-Williams
Gagne-Stoll-Brown
Purcell-Schenn-Simmonds
Clifford-Fraser-Richardson/Lewis
That team is worse than what we have now. Well done! Oh yeah and surely you meant first line of Moulson-Kopitar-POS?

I am still laughing at "can you imagine a team like this" and then posting roster like that.

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02-04-2012, 09:33 PM
  #147
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I forgot to mention the 1st round pick in the Penner deal.

That team worse? Um...it would have 5 players with 10 or more goals.

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02-04-2012, 09:39 PM
  #148
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I forgot to mention the 1st round pick in the Penner deal.

That team worse? Um...it would have 5 players with 10 or more goals.
Ummm ummmm.... ummmm which part of "We have 8 20 goal scorers on the team" you don't understand? Sorry to be rude, but people just don't get it, that it is not the same to score 10 goals in Philly and 10 goals in LA. I can not believe that you somehow think that if you take a 20-goal scorer from Philadelphia and put it in LA system, that he would still be producing the same. This is not computer game. This is not fantasy NHL. This is real life! It doesn't work like that.

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02-04-2012, 09:52 PM
  #149
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Ummm ummmm.... ummmm which part of "We have 8 20 goal scorers on the team" you don't understand? Sorry to be rude, but people just don't get it, that it is not the same to score 10 goals in Philly and 10 goals in LA. I can not believe that you somehow think that if you take a 20-goal scorer from Philadelphia and put it in LA system, that he would still be producing the same. This is not computer game. This is not fantasy NHL. This is real life! It doesn't work like that.
Don't waste your time. He doesn't want the truth, he's just wants to be bitter.

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Old
02-04-2012, 10:21 PM
  #150
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Ummm ummmm.... ummmm which part of "We have 8 20 goal scorers on the team" you don't understand? Sorry to be rude, but people just don't get it, that it is not the same to score 10 goals in Philly and 10 goals in LA. I can not believe that you somehow think that if you take a 20-goal scorer from Philadelphia and put it in LA system, that he would still be producing the same. This is not computer game. This is not fantasy NHL. This is real life! It doesn't work like that.
I couldn't have said it better myself.

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