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Season over. Habs lose 3-0

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Old
02-04-2012, 09:54 PM
  #251
patsbury
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Originally Posted by durojean View Post
Ok...

I'd do Plekanec for Carter any day of the week.

I wouldn't trade our 1st this year.

I think Gorges is really not that important... Being the heart and soul of a losing team is not saying much.

I'd try to see what I could get for Price... If #1 center or 80 points winger available I'd do it if no keep Price.

I think Kaberle is not that bad but he can make bad mistakes.

I think Desharnais is doing fine for a guy who's in his first season.

I think signing Markov is not a mistake because let's be honest while injured he doesn't cost us anything.

I think the mistake was to not sign a replacement in case Markov can't play... Hamrlik comes to mind.

I think Cunneyworth is not doing a good job but he was put in a situation to fail.

I still think the Cammalleri trade was a bad trade.

I'm mad about losing Pouliot and Grabovsky and S Kostitsyn for nothing... Ironically that would have been a solid third line.

I think we should have signed Dumont or Kovy this summer because they are two players with different skillset than the rest of our team but that have always been dominant faces on the power play.

I think a complete rehaul is in order for the team this summer. Damphousse could become an excellent dg and Roy an excellent coach... Put everyone in the direction should be fired this summer.

I think a lot of you won't like my opinions but they are what they are and it's just good to voice them somewhere...

Oh and I think Gorges is an effective player in what he is but he will only help you not to lose... You'll never win a game because of him. In a hockey team I want difference makers and I think that, while he is not a liability, he is also not a difference maker so I would never build a team around a guy like him and surely never make him an untouchable.
You think too much, stop reading where in bold.

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Old
02-04-2012, 10:05 PM
  #252
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Habs are 27th in the standings currently. Oil can't pass us tonight because of goal differential...but they can tie us.

With officially 3.9% chance of making the playoffs, our best move is, clearly, to maximize our draft pick. This season will be worth it if we pick Grigorenko or Yakupov.

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Old
02-04-2012, 10:08 PM
  #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
Habs are 27th in the standings currently. Oil can't pass us tonight because of goal differential...but they can tie us.

With officially 3.9% chance of making the playoffs, our best move is, clearly, to maximize our draft pick. This season will be worth it if we pick Grigorenko or Yakupov.
No my friend
If edmonton win
we are 28th

tie breaker
1- game played (equal)
2- ROW (Regular over time win ) both have 18. with Regular or OT win, edmonton will have 19

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02-04-2012, 10:10 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by chewBACHa View Post
No my friend
If edmonton win
we are 28th

tie breaker
1- game played (equal)
2- ROW (Regular over time win ) both have 18. with Regular or OT win, edmonton will have 19
Oh, bad-ass.

Verily, I am not even perturbed.

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Old
02-04-2012, 10:11 PM
  #255
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Than tell me when we won a game because of Josh Gorges... Tell me why last year when he got injured we didn't even felt it.

He's a hard worker I know, he blocks shot I know... He is basically a Steve Begin playing D... Blocking shot and all help you not lose but it certainly doesn't help you win...

Everyone is liking Gorges because he's saying the good things he's a likeable guy and he works hard but really...

When have we won because of Gorges...

Gill was doing his job last year doing as fine as him... Playing with Pk tends to help a defensive defencemen look good like Markov was doing with Komisarek... We all saw what Komisarek was when he stopped playing with Markov.

Gorges is better than Komi... But not that much better... Remember Komi was also a shot blocking machine for the habs... And that's because it's the only thing a hard worker can do when he's way over his head.

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Old
02-04-2012, 10:21 PM
  #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by durojean View Post
Than tell me when we won a game because of Josh Gorges... Tell me why last year when he got injured we didn't even felt it.

He's a hard worker I know, he blocks shot I know... He is basically a Steve Begin playing D... Blocking shot and all help you not lose but it certainly doesn't help you win...

Everyone is liking Gorges because he's saying the good things he's a likeable guy and he works hard but really...

When have we won because of Gorges...

Gill was doing his job last year doing as fine as him... Playing with Pk tends to help a defensive defencemen look good like Markov was doing with Komisarek... We all saw what Komisarek was when he stopped playing with Markov.

Gorges is better than Komi... But not that much better... Remember Komi was also a shot blocking machine for the habs... And that's because it's the only thing a hard worker can do when he's way over his head.
Did not have to think too far and just to add oil to the fire:


Hockey : it is not all about scoring points.

He's a big part as of why we are 1st in league in PK. You trade Gorges, you open wide the doors in front of Price/Budaj, that is scoring chances that will make you loose game.

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02-04-2012, 10:26 PM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by durojean View Post
Than tell me when we won a game because of Josh Gorges... Tell me why last year when he got injured we didn't even felt it.

He's a hard worker I know, he blocks shot I know... He is basically a Steve Begin playing D... Blocking shot and all help you not lose but it certainly doesn't help you win...

Everyone is liking Gorges because he's saying the good things he's a likeable guy and he works hard but really...

When have we won because of Gorges...

Gill was doing his job last year doing as fine as him... Playing with Pk tends to help a defensive defencemen look good like Markov was doing with Komisarek... We all saw what Komisarek was when he stopped playing with Markov.

Gorges is better than Komi... But not that much better... Remember Komi was also a shot blocking machine for the habs... And that's because it's the only thing a hard worker can do when he's way over his head.
When have we won because of ''X'' is not a question suitable for defensemen. When have we lost because of Gorges?

Its much easier to remember goals that are scored than goals that are prevented. His job is to prevent negative things from happening and he does that pretty damn well.

He also has a lot of intangibles that are extremely rare in this team. Gorges is a good top4 defensemen and he should be a fixture on our defense for years to come. Trading him would be a big mistake.

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Old
02-04-2012, 10:27 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by patsbury View Post
Did not have to think too far and just to add oil to the fire:


Hockey : it is not all about scoring points.

He's a big part as of why we are 1st in league in PK. You trade Gorges, you open wide the doors in front of Price/Budaj, that is scoring chances that will make you loose game.
That's the point... You trade Gorges... Nothing changes we are already losing nearly all of our games

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Old
02-04-2012, 10:27 PM
  #259
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On the plus side though, Gomez's anniversary party is on for tomorrow!

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Old
02-04-2012, 10:31 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by durojean View Post
That's the point... You trade Gorges... Nothing changes we are already losing nearly all of our games
Yaaaaaaa right, because we have a bad season, we should trade him knowing we won't be able to find anyone in the near future to replace him? Yeah, great logic here. If PG only see short term, you foresee on even shorter term than him. Go read FlyingKostitsyn post and learn.

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02-04-2012, 10:34 PM
  #261
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You know the fans have gone mad when they start attacking Gorges. Our best defenseman this season... by far I will add. Tonight, even if he got rocked by Ovie, he was still extremely effective. He's not the biggest guy, he will not throw the biggest hit but if you know hockey, you will see that Gorges rarely loses his man. He will always keep his man on the perimeter. For a defenseman that has huge defensive responsibility every game in a team that doesn't score much, his +10 ratio is pretty accurate and impressive.

Some of you guys need to start watching hockey properly. This is getting ridiculous.

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Old
02-04-2012, 10:37 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
You know the fans have gone mad when they start attacking Gorges. Our best defenseman this season... by far I will add. Tonight, even if he got rocked by Ovie, he was still extremely effective. He's not the biggest guy, he will not throw the biggest hit but if you know hockey, you will see that Gorges rarely loses his man. He will always keep his man on the perimeter. For a defenseman that has huge defensive responsibility every game in a team that doesn't score much, his +10 ratio is pretty accurate and impressive.

Some of you guys need to start watching hockey properly. This is getting ridiculous.
I agree with you on Gorges, you are bang on

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Old
02-04-2012, 10:38 PM
  #263
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You trade Kahberle before trading Gorges...since Kahberle produces points but is soft as hell and is prone to stupid, stupid plays that can lead to goals by the opposing team. Case in point: TODAY. Gorges at least tries to play bigger than his size. Kaaaahberle plays SMALLER than his 6-3, 215 frame.

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Old
02-04-2012, 10:38 PM
  #264
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I know he is useful to the team he's in my top four for the habs without a doubt.

I just think he is given way to much credit for what he is really doing.

In my mind he could have been the missing piece in a trade that could have bring us a real good player.

But what's sticks in my head is last year... We lost him last year and it didn't change anything we didn't even have to replace him last year and the team was playing exactly the same as when he was in the line up.

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Old
02-04-2012, 10:39 PM
  #265
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I betted with my brother who was gonna score first this year hal gill or Gomez he took Gomez i took hall gill and i won.

He then said when gomez came back who was gonna score first between him and Darche i took darche and guess what i won again.

Do we have a taker here, who score first Palushaj or Gomez? I'm willing to take the bet on Palushaj. My brother gave up on gomez after it cost him 50 bucks.

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Old
02-04-2012, 10:39 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by durojean View Post
Ok...

I'd do Plekanec for Carter any day of the week.

I wouldn't trade our 1st this year.

I think Gorges is really not that important... Being the heart and soul of a losing team is not saying much.

I'd try to see what I could get for Price... If #1 center or 80 points winger available I'd do it if no keep Price.

I think Kaberle is not that bad but he can make bad mistakes.

I think Desharnais is doing fine for a guy who's in his first season.

I think signing Markov is not a mistake because let's be honest while injured he doesn't cost us anything.

I think the mistake was to not sign a replacement in case Markov can't play... Hamrlik comes to mind.

I think Cunneyworth is not doing a good job but he was put in a situation to fail.

I still think the Cammalleri trade was a bad trade.

I'm mad about losing Pouliot and Grabovsky and S Kostitsyn for nothing... Ironically that would have been a solid third line.

I think we should have signed Dumont or Kovy this summer because they are two players with different skillset than the rest of our team but that have always been dominant faces on the power play.

I think a complete rehaul is in order for the team this summer. Damphousse could become an excellent dg and Roy an excellent coach... Put everyone in the direction should be fired this summer.

I think a lot of you won't like my opinions but they are what they are and it's just good to voice them somewhere...

Oh and I think Gorges is an effective player in what he is but he will only help you not to lose... You'll never win a game because of him. In a hockey team I want difference makers and I think that, while he is not a liability, he is also not a difference maker so I would never build a team around a guy like him and surely never make him an untouchable.
First, we shouldn't touch Carter with a ten foot pole... let alone deal away Pleks for him. Secondly, trading Price would be crazy. Third... Gorges is the least of our problems and would probably make a pretty decent captain for us.

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02-04-2012, 10:43 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
First, we shouldn't touch Carter with a ten foot pole... let alone deal away Pleks for him. Secondly, trading Price would be crazy. Third... Gorges is the least of our problems and would probably make a pretty decent captain for us.
I would touch Carter, but only if Desharnais(he MUST), Bourque/AK, and/or one of our trash Dmen(i.e Kahberle, Crampoli, Hal Gill) are shipped out.

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02-04-2012, 10:44 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
First, we shouldn't touch Carter with a ten foot pole... let alone deal away Pleks for him. Secondly, trading Price would be crazy. Third... Gorges is the least of our problems and would probably make a pretty decent captain for us.
I would trade Plek for Carter in a heartbeat. the ten year contract is scary but, but he has big time talent. Plekanec, well, he is just a player you cant rely on. He always dissapears when big games comes. Always been a dissapointment in the playoff, and now he is regressing, not doing anything during regular season now. Trade while he still has any value

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Old
02-04-2012, 10:45 PM
  #269
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Gorges looks good in a bad team but I'm pretty sure in a winning team we don't notice him or we notice him as the unsung hero.

He's a good player to have without a doubt and I never said he was a problem. I said that I think he is overrated and that's my opinion.

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Old
02-04-2012, 10:55 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
I would trade Plek for Carter in a heartbeat. the ten year contract is scary but, but he has big time talent. Plekanec, well, he is just a player you cant rely on. He always dissapears when big games comes. Always been a dissapointment in the playoff, and now he is regressing, not doing anything during regular season now. Trade while he still has any value
Plekanec' career points-per-game in the playoffs is nearly identical to his regular season. I can see being disappointed in the season he's having but for under Martin he was buried with defensive duties with Gomez out for so long and two young centres in Eller and Desharnais behind him. That and the team-wide PP being horrible are going to affect his offensive totals. While Carter is undeniably better offensively than Plekanec, Plekenc has the edge defensively and the contract has a heck of a lot less risk.

The length of Carter's contract trades me but if there were a bargain to be had I wouldn't mind the Habs getting him. A bargain being not creating a hole in a key position elsewhere (say, by going insane and trading Subban), by swapping the deck chairs (trading Plekanec) for a tiny improvement with greater contract risk, or trading this year's first what with it being a lottery pick.

Now If you'll all allow me to be go overboard with the craziness I would trade Price for Carter if I thought the Habs could acquire a goaltender like Bobrovsky or Vokoun; a guy who's going to give you decent-to-good goaltending for good value on the dollar. It was brought up in the Price thread but the spread of goaltending talent in the NHL isn't as wide as it once was, and with Price's performance this year and in his career so far I'm not convinced he's a top-5 goalie (which is probably worth paying the big $ for) yet. He's only under team control for 2 more years before he can sail into Unrestricted Free Agency. I hope a new GM at least looks at the market for him and for bringing in another goaltender.

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Old
02-04-2012, 11:08 PM
  #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by durojean View Post
Gorges looks good in a bad team but I'm pretty sure in a winning team we don't notice him or we notice him as the unsung hero.

He's a good player to have without a doubt and I never said he was a problem. I said that I think he is overrated and that's my opinion.
The thing is technically, the Habs ARE a good team when Josh Gorges is on the ice. It's when he (and Subban) get off it that we're a bad team. If he was a 3rd pairing D getting 1rst line comps JUST because the team is bad and has no one else to take those comps, he wouldn't be praised since he would look like complete crap.

I'll just be extremely lazy here and quote myself from earlier in this thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
This. I know there is a narrative around defensive players that say they should all hit and be gritty and big or whatever but these things are only one aspect of the defensive game.

Defensive game isn't about how you do it, it's about the result you get.

3rd pairing defenseman are 3rd pairing defenseman because they only have the ability (and by ability I mean ability to do so game after game ) to end up in the + (not only in traditional +- but in scoring chances etc, Corsi etc..) against 3rd-4th liners, 2nd pairing defenseman are 2nd pairing defenseman because they only have the ability end up in the + against 2nd liners and ...

1rst pairing defenseman are 1rst pairing defenseman because of their ability to end up in the + against first liners.

He's not a number 1, can do it all dman, but he's easily a first pairing one due to this ability. I'd say he's the perfect "complementary" part of a first pairing, next to a Subban.
Just in case that part wasn't clear enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
Defensive game isn't about how you do it, it's about the result you get.
Look I don't care how he does it, I don't care that he does it despite not being big and mean, I don't care that he doesn't fit the profile we've given shutdown Dman. If, while he is on the ice, the team has the puck more often then they don't and the team has more scoring chances then they allow and if can do all off that while playing against top lines then he's a top pairing defenceman.

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Old
02-04-2012, 11:48 PM
  #272
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You know things are going really bad when you read a post on the Leafs board from a fan laughing at us and saying that the Habs are painful to watch.. This from a fan of a team that hasn't made the playoffs since the lockout..

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Old
02-05-2012, 12:10 AM
  #273
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The oilers won tonight in SO putting us 29th overall!

Grigorenko! Grigorenko!!

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Old
02-05-2012, 12:28 AM
  #274
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Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
The oilers won tonight in SO putting us 29th overall!

Grigorenko! Grigorenko!!
What really sucks is there is still 30 games to play.. There is plenty of time for the Habs to climb in the standings. Other bad teams might also decided to tank and the Habs will have to out tank the tankers..

I wish there was 3 games left. Not 30. With our luck, the Habs will finish 10th last and miss out of the best forwards...

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02-05-2012, 12:47 AM
  #275
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Lol at the posters saying Gorges is the heart and soul of the team! Wow

You guys represent everything that is wrong with our fan base. A bunch of loud voices who have no clue about the game of hockey, probably never played it except on Xbox.

I don't hate the guy, but I do hate all the tire pumping he has received. His shot is way below average, he does not hit or fight, he never makes a good breakout pass often giving it off to his partner to make the play, and he's not strong enough to clear the front of the net. You're gonna use shot blocking to tell me he's the heart and soul of the team? Really? A perfect comparable to Gorges would be Brent Sopel. Same exact player but Sopel had a better first pass. Sopel played bottom pair of the Chicago Stanley cup team. Sopel was making about 2 million per season. Gorges is getting 4. See where I'm getting at?

What pissed me off today is that again, over and over this season, Gorges comes out after a loss and says everything his team was doing wrong. Someone used the argument that he says "we", but do you think he is talking about his game when he says: we need to go in front of the net, we need to shoot more, etc. No! He's talking about his teammates, and I'm sure his teammates are getting annoyed at hearing him talk. He loves the cameras and is always ready to give nice quotes to the media (which explains why they love him so much) but saying Gorges is the heart and soul???

Let's say we took Gorges out of the game today, what would the final score be? 4-0? Heart and soul players win you games, Gorges is not that!

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