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Defence is Better than we Thought?

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Old
02-04-2012, 10:47 PM
  #26
Patty Lee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyThoughts View Post
Maybe because we believe a few isolated games against the reigning Stanley Cup champions is indicative of who we are as a team?

Against Boston we are:
0-4-0 6GF & 23GA

Against the rest of the league we are:
27-15-6 155GF & 129GA

Do you really not see the wide discrepancy between these? Against Boston we have the tendency to perform like an AHL squad often looking nothing like the speedy, resilient, offensively dangerous club we have entrenched ourselves as. Against the rest of the NHL we arguably perform like an an elite team and a legitimate playoff threat with our overwhelming speed and depth.

Considering we have only had two blowout losses the entire season -- both at the hands of the Bostonians, I think it's fair to dismiss those games as an anomaly when judging our teams performance rather than taking that small sample size against one dominant team as the norm.
but that doesn't fit his agenda

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Old
02-04-2012, 10:50 PM
  #27
Kessely Snipes
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From what I saw of the game tonight, the defense did a really nice job of clearing the pucks from the crease after a save.

Although Reimer looked on his game.

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Old
02-04-2012, 10:52 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by calcal798 View Post
I think Gardiner has been the largest improvement lately, man he is awesome out there.
Last season, he was hardly noticable on the team, so he sure has come a long way.

A bit of credit should clearly go to the coaching staff for making some major adjustments. I do wish they would have done it two months ago. Let's not get carried away quite yet, though, the Sens looked absolutely horrible tonight.

I do have to say, defense not leaving our goalie(s) out to dry is definately a nice change.

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Old
02-04-2012, 10:54 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pucky View Post
50 shots against is a good defence? Must be a new system I'm unaware of. :-/
Notice how they didn't give up ANY second or third chances. Any coach worth his salt will tell you you can give up as many shots as you want, as long as you contain real scoring chances.

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Old
02-04-2012, 10:57 PM
  #30
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Scoring chances are more important than shots, and the Sens did not have many even though they apparently had 50 shots, it felt like they shot 20.

Our team defense has been a lot better in 2012, I find myself not yelling at the TV as much about getting the puck out of our zone or making easy, easy clears. We moving our feet, covering lanes, have active sticks, and our pk has aggressive and solid. We get hemmed in here and there but thats hockey, thats going to happen.

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Old
02-04-2012, 10:58 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTouchIcing View Post
Notice how they didn't give up ANY second or third chances. Any coach worth his salt will tell you you can give up as many shots as you want, as long as you contain real scoring chances.
The whole reason there were so many shots on Reimer in the first place is because of how tight the Toronto defense was defending in their zone. When you can't drive the puck to the net or make plays around the net the first thing the coach says to try to get something going is "Just get some shots on net", the Senators were pretty much stuck using this strategy the entire game due to how the Leafs dominated the play.

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Old
02-04-2012, 11:08 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pucky View Post
50 shots against is a good defence? Must be a new system I'm unaware of. :-/
lol it's amazing some ppl post here without watching the games

after letting in some questionable goals against them last game, the sens were throwing EVERYTHING at the net

their gameplan was very simple- throw it in the corner, retrieve, pass to point and throw on net or throw on net from the corners

i didn't see much creativity out of the sens, they were just shooting everything as soon as they could

the leafs gave almost no 2nd shot chances or odd man rushes

it was a solid defensive effort

reimer was solid, didn't have to stand on his head

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Old
02-04-2012, 11:13 PM
  #33
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Gardiners puck poise is amazing.

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Old
02-04-2012, 11:19 PM
  #34
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To be fair, if you take away the Bruin blowouts this season, our GA is actually pretty solid considering our mediocre goaltending early on.

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Old
02-04-2012, 11:22 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTouchIcing View Post
Notice how they didn't give up ANY second or third chances. Any coach worth his salt will tell you you can give up as many shots as you want, as long as you contain real scoring chances.
The leafs defence was good at clearing the crease tonight though Reimer made a few outstanding saves. And you are sort of minimizing Reimer stopping 49 shots.

Also it should be said that Ottawa did play last night - they looked flat out there.

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Old
02-04-2012, 11:26 PM
  #36
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With the young up-and-coming guys on our blueline in Gunnarsson, Schenn, Gardiner and even in a sense Franson it's looking like the Leafs have a bright future. Liles is a solid vet and Phaneuf is still young as well.

As most young defenseman are the Leafs are prone to inconsistency but I think its safe to say the Leafs having a promising future on the backend.

Gardiner is looking better and better lately and Gunnarsson does so much for this team. Franson lately has been very solid and Schenn has been picking it up as well too.

As far as the cupboard goes the Leafs don't have any really flashy defenders in the system but guys like Aulie, Holzer, Blacker and Percy could become decent NHLers.

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Old
02-04-2012, 11:29 PM
  #37
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i recall RW saying after the allstar break about wanting to get the team to play better defense .
so i guess theyre clamping it down now
they did last yr at this time as well - esp after the trade deadline

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Old
02-04-2012, 11:36 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pucky View Post
50 shots against is a good defence? Must be a new system I'm unaware of. :-/
Lots of ****** perimeter shots to inflate the total.

Or wasn't that the argument used to deride the Leafs when we'd put 50 up in a game?

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Old
02-04-2012, 11:42 PM
  #39
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It's been okay, still not great.

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Old
02-04-2012, 11:48 PM
  #40
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Liles

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Old
02-04-2012, 11:50 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawi View Post
Liles

He helped the transition with quick paces. And Ottawa had no legs after playing last night to apply an aggressive forecheck. The leaf defenders fold under an aggressive forecheck.

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Old
02-04-2012, 11:50 PM
  #42
lebdafor norris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawi View Post
Liles
Leafs has not allowed a goal since he came back, he must be the reason. But seriosly I though this guy was suppose to be below avg defensively, he is actually pretty good in his own end, probably has the highest hockey IQ out of all the Leafs D.

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Old
02-05-2012, 12:02 AM
  #43
ForSpareParts*
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"we"?

speak for yourself.

look:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...e=6&highlight=

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Old
02-05-2012, 12:02 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Around in 67 View Post
case in point, this point. you can be articulate and still make no sense.
Or you can attempt to be articulate as well as make sense, and do neither. Both of which, are not me. That previous post made complete sense, though perhaps you were still living in 67'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyThoughts View Post
Maybe because we believe a few isolated games against the reigning Stanley Cup champions is indicative of who we are as a team?

Against Boston we are:
0-4-0 6GF & 23GA

Against the rest of the league we are:
27-15-6 155GF & 129GA

Do you really not see the wide discrepancy between these? Against Boston we have the tendency to perform like an AHL squad often looking nothing like the speedy, resilient, offensively dangerous club we have entrenched ourselves as. Against the rest of the NHL we arguably perform like an an elite team and a legitimate playoff threat with our overwhelming speed and depth.

Considering we have only had two blowout losses the entire season -- both at the hands of the Bostonians, I think it's fair to dismiss those games as an anomaly when judging our teams performance rather than taking that small sample size against one dominant team as the norm.
I don't care about the 'wide discrepancy'. It's irrelevant if the team won or loss the game. Point is, you don't do what the OP did, or what a lot of people here enjoy doing i.e., manipulate facts. They lost to Boston, it counts towards the GAA, and instead of eliminating the games because they were so bad and the Leafs play like another team against the rest of the NHL, they could, you know... just continue to progress defensively.

Also, I have never said the Boston games are the 'norm'. I actually did not even introduce the 'wide discrepancy' between Boston and against the rest of the NHL, you did. To which you then went ahead to prove your anomaly. I simply maintained, that you don't dismiss stats because they don't go with your own agenda, i.e., in this case, proving that the Leafs are good defensively. If someone were to argue the Leafs were good offensively, the same logic would be to remove all the games in which they were outplayed by a great goaltender. You simply, do not do commit such a fallacy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Around in 67 View Post
but that doesn't fit his agenda
Another brilliant post.

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Old
02-05-2012, 12:10 AM
  #45
Erza Scarlet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epictetus View Post
Or you can attempt to be articulate as well as make sense, and do neither. Both of which, are not me. That post made complete sense, though perhaps you were still living in 67'.



I don't care about the 'wide discrepancy'. It's irrelevant if the team won or loss the game. Point is, you don't do what the OP did, or what a lot of people here enjoy doing i.e., manipulate facts. They lost to Boston, it counts towards the GAA, and instead of eliminating the games because they were so bad and the Leafs play like another team against the rest of the NHL, they could, you know... just continue to progress defensively.

Also, I have never said the Boston games are the 'norm'. I actually did not even introduce the 'wide discrepancy' between Boston and against the rest of the NHL, you did. To which you then went ahead to prove your anomaly. I simply maintained, that you don't dismiss stats because they don't go with your own agenda, i.e., in this case, proving that the Leafs are good defensively.



Another brilliant post.

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Old
02-05-2012, 12:10 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafTroll View Post
Leafs has not allowed a goal since he came back, he must be the reason. But seriosly I though this guy was suppose to be below avg defensively, he is actually pretty good in his own end, probably has the highest hockey IQ out of all the Leafs D.
Id so say too, but yeah, was not expecting him to be as good as he is in his own end, not that he is perfect, but from the way avs fans talked i expected worse.

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Old
02-05-2012, 12:13 AM
  #47
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Can't believe Sens had ~70 shots directed towards Reimer (we had 20 blocked shots). They didn't get many good scoring chances.

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Old
02-05-2012, 12:22 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pucky View Post
Point is, regardless of whether you think the quality was low, against a good team, that would be a different story. Obviously, they were hemmed in their own zone too long on one too many occasions. But, oh well....
That is due to the wingers not being strong on the wall not the defense and it's the Achilles heal to this team defensively. If you've noticed the Leafs don't sustain a long pressure on the cycle offensively either and it's due to the same reason.

It's these situations where this team has improved mightily. Even though they're being hemmed in they're not loosing there cool caught running around and they're keeping there sticks down to not pick up penalties. They're much more poised in these situations and staying DISCIPLINE on there positional form as units keeping teams on the out side and protecting the front of the net rather it be the defense men clearing rebounds or checking the opposition in the front of the net and the forwrds espescially the wingers not named MacArthur have improved immensely in dropping down low in front of the net in helping the D pick up rebounds. It helps that the goalies have stepped up too the soft back breaking goals have been far and in between from both goalies from what was going on early in the year espescially on the PK they're making saves now that wasn't the case espescially with Reimer in the month of December

You don't get 6 shutouts in 13 games if your not playing solid defense hemmed in or not.


Last edited by dimi78: 02-05-2012 at 12:27 AM.
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Old
02-05-2012, 12:33 AM
  #49
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we have 5 Shut-Outs in 13 games, not 6

sorry for correcting

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Old
02-05-2012, 01:32 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rask View Post
The defense is better than we thought because we haven't let in a goal in two games. Once we lose a game everyone will again resort to "This guy's a piece of ****! I've had enough of Burke! How much longer do we have to watch him overpay for these overrated defenseman!? **** this team!"
Rask = genius.

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