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Top 5 gm in the nhl in past 5 years and why

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Old
02-04-2012, 03:37 PM
  #101
number72
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This is how I judge Burke on Leafs Overall since 2008:
1. Playoffs or does the team overachieve expectation: C-
2. How quickly weaknesses are addressed (i.e goaltending, truculence, #1C or length of rebuild). B-
His goaltending choices for perhaps the most important team role have been questionable and hurt the young rebuilding team. Phaneuf and Kessel have been solid additions. The lack of a number 1 center, lack of effective shutdown defenders and lack of forward size are also big missings even three years into his rebuild.
3. Ability to attract and/or retain quality UFA talent that achieves/overachieves expectations with reasonable length and salaried of contracts C+
Negatives: Lebda (what was he thinking ), Dupuis, Wallin (), Komisarek (terrible NMC and $ ), Schenn (underachieving), Orr (mistake), Armstrong (overpaid), letting Giguere walk as UFA (ok his groin was broke but Burke still missed this)
Positives: Beuchimen, Liles (resign), Macarthur, Bozak, Connolly (he is hated but I still like the signing), Grabovski (resign him please )
4. Prospect Pool: B+
(Reimer and Frattin (he inherited), Kadri, Colborne, Biggs, Percy all look to be solid additions for the future but still lacking a future top 3 forward (Kessel like) and top 2 dman ( Phaneuf like)
5. Impact and Cost of Trades: B
Positive: Kaberle, Liles, Beauchimen, Phaneuf, Brown, Steckel, Skoula
Neutral: Kessel, Versteeg 2x, Mitchell, Poni, Primeau, Tlusty, Peluso, Lashoff, Voros, Jones, Petiot, Moore, Antropov, Hamilton, May
Negative: Giguere, Stempniak, Exelby

Burke either wins the big trades or receives some value for the trade so he doesn't lose too much (i.e he rarely outright loses big trades but he may be on the lesser side of a few). The small trades are a gamble so who cares but you can see most trades are not won/lost but are neutral for both parties. It is not like Burke pillages every GM - he tends to win on the big trades (except for maybe kessel but I guess you pay for quality but ouch).

I'm not sure how Burke assesses defenceman but trading for Exelby and signing Lebda and Komisarek - what is Burke smoking??? He has been terrible at signing shutdown defenders, fortunately he does better with puck moving defenders like Liles and Phaneuf and Gardiner.

Also with Giguere raises questions on Burke's ability to acquire an average goaltender and assess goaltending talent during his time in Toronto. Toskala and Reimer he inherited but Giguere he traded for and Monster has been inconsistent and hopefully turning it around.
Overall his big muffle as GM has been finding a consistent NHL average leaf goalie. Goaltending is the the most important role on a team and Giggy performance (with monster) likely cost leafs playoffs last year. And he hasn't been successful finding a consistent goalie for the leafs, and in particular in that trade. Terrible goaltending is part of the reason why Boston got high draft picks for the Kessel trade in both years. That is my biggest criticism of him.


Last edited by number72: 02-04-2012 at 06:17 PM.
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Old
02-04-2012, 03:38 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
So basically, they could have went without a GM for a year and somehow he'd still have been named "GM of the Year". Great.

"This year, the Chicago Blackhawks would like to honour this broom and mop for their magnificent job leading our club to the holy grail"!!!

Just wondering what team you're talking about that never made a move?

The GM's make roster moves within the minors and big club, the GM is the boss of the Coach and players. Even if the GM doesn't do anything he still has a strong influence on the team through words. To say that a GM did nothing on his way to winning a cup is illogical.

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02-04-2012, 04:12 PM
  #103
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While Gorton was the actual GM at the time of those moves, he was only there on an interim basis. Chiarelli was signed in May with the expectation that it would be his club going forward. So technically, they were Gorton's acquisitions, but realistically it's fair to say Chiarelli had some influence in those decisions.

That said, I do realize that often there is a transition period with staff turnover from one manager to the next. In Boston's case, a lot of key decisions were made during that transition period, so O'Connell, Gorton, and Chiarelli probably each share some credit for the Bruins Cup Winning team.

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02-04-2012, 04:25 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by SundinOurOnlyChance View Post
Just wondering what team you're talking about that never made a move?

The GM's make roster moves within the minors and big club, the GM is the boss of the Coach and players. Even if the GM doesn't do anything he still has a strong influence on the team through words. To say that a GM did nothing on his way to winning a cup is illogical.
Chicago's Stan Bowman. He made a few minor moves, his biggest pick-up was Nick Boynton who played in 3 of their 22 playoff games. Johnsson would've been a bigger move, but he suffered a concussion 1 month after he was acquired. In fairness the Hawks were tight to the cap, so he didn't have much freedom, but it's tough to say he did much for their cup win.

http://www.prosportstransactions.com...Search&start=0

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02-04-2012, 04:38 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Burke's Leafs record;

2008-09 season - missed playoffs (finished 7th from bottom)
2009-10 season - missed playoffs (finished 29th overall, 2nd from bottom)
2010-11 season - missed playoffs (finished 9th from bottom)
2011-12 season - in progress

I think that 3 consecutive bottom 10 finishes overall is the trend responsible.
Burkes team better be doing something soon. The excuses are running out. Or are the Leafs going to put themselves into a JP Riccardi situation where the GM never is able to deliver the goods but somehow sticks around for 7 years.

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Old
02-04-2012, 05:53 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by hero View Post
TSN said Burke was number 1 with Chia at 2
If you want to look at it solely from a trades standpoint maybe this makes sense but if you include team success then Burke does not desearve such a high placement.

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02-04-2012, 07:10 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
While Gorton was the actual GM at the time of those moves, he was only there on an interim basis. Chiarelli was signed in May with the expectation that it would be his club going forward. So technically, they were Gorton's acquisitions, but realistically it's fair to say Chiarelli had some influence in those decisions.
That said, I do realize that often there is a transition period with staff turnover from one manager to the next. In Boston's case, a lot of key decisions were made during that transition period, so O'Connell, Gorton, and Chiarelli probably each share some credit for the Bruins Cup Winning team.
If he did he should be heavily penalized as it was directly forbidden that he be involved in the draft or FA as dictated by Gary Bettman himself.

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02-04-2012, 07:12 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by SundinOurOnlyChance View Post
Just wondering what team you're talking about that never made a move?

The GM's make roster moves within the minors and big club, the GM is the boss of the Coach and players. Even if the GM doesn't do anything he still has a strong influence on the team through words. To say that a GM did nothing on his way to winning a cup is illogical.
What it is is factual.

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02-04-2012, 07:15 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
You should fact-check. Chiarelli was named GM in May, 2006. Chara, Lucic, and Marchand were all added in June and July 06. All of Lucic, Marchand, and Krejci's pro development was during Chiarelli's tenure. Chiarelli was also responsible for nabbing Rask, and adding Recchi and Seidenberg. All of those guys contributed to Boston's success last year. The Boston team was Chiarelli's.
You be wrong. You be completely wrong. He was forbidden from having anything to do with the draft or FA period under orders from the league.

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Old
02-05-2012, 08:01 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
George McPhee - Rebuilt Washington into a strong team from the ground up
Who've had one of the best players in the world for most of this time and won nothing. I wonder how good Washington is without Ovie?

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Peter Chiarelli - Rebuilt Boston into a Stanley cup champion while still rebuilding with lottery picks
One lottery pick. That they lost a budding superstar 21 year old player (lottery pick himself) to get. Other than that, I agree. Chia is on this list.

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David Poile - Has managed to keep Nashville competitive for the last decade with much less resources.
Can't disagree here, although I wonder if he would become the next Sather in a big market with money?

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Dean Lombardi - Completely loaded up the Kings system and has produced a very strong team in the west that should compete for the next 5 years.
Waiting to see on this one. The Kings have done nothing yet, are not as young as our team, have been rebuilding much longer, and have just as many points as us and we have a game in hand.

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Dale Tallon - Rebuilt and won the cup with Chicago, is now using that method to acquire top notch players with the Panthers.
All he's done in FLA so far is throw money around. That team is in the process of coming back down to earth. If Burke had done that in T.O. we'd all be *****ing about how it's same old same old.



Add to that list
Brian Burke, who has added a budding superstar forward, has built a top line out of cast aways and spare parts (with two players among the league leaders and the other a 24 year old center that we were all ridiculed for ever believing he would reach his rookie season numbers again). ONe of the best second lines in the game (with a center who cost us a second round pick, thank you montreal) and incredible depth at forward. We have a solid defense including our captain (acquired for spare parts) who seems to be coming back into his previous form, a fifth overall pick who seems to be developing at a good pace, a playmaker just into his prime that cost us only a second, another young mobile guy who was a 'throw in', a solid big prospect who was acquired by taking advantage of our team's ability to bury money (say what you want, but the fact that he got the Preds to 'throw in' Franson was impressive) and any number of guys both on the pro and farm who can fill that last spot on the d, usually gunnar. He has built a solid group of goaltenders too, at least three of which have the potential to become NHL starters. All this while being one of the two or three youngest teams in the league (depending on the day and whos dressed).

They are now competing for a playoff spot and can beat any team on any given night. GIven what he started with, I'd say pretty impressive.

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02-05-2012, 08:03 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Christ View Post
If you want to look at it solely from a trades standpoint maybe this makes sense but if you include team success then Burke does not desearve such a high placement.
Why not? He has just as many Cups as Chia.....

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02-05-2012, 08:14 AM
  #112
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Burke either wins the big trades or receives some value for the trade so he doesn't lose too much (i.e he rarely outright loses big trades but he may be on the lesser side of a few). The small trades are a gamble so who cares but you can see most trades are not won/lost but are neutral for both parties. It is not like Burke pillages every GM - he tends to win on the big trades (except for maybe kessel but I guess you pay for quality but ouch).
At this point we still have the best player from that deal.

Quote:
I'm not sure how Burke assesses defenceman but trading for Exelby and signing Lebda and Komisarek - what is Burke smoking??? He has been terrible at signing shutdown defenders, fortunately he does better with puck moving defenders like Liles and Phaneuf and Gardiner.
Komisarek has been fine. I'm not sure what people were expecting from this guy (unless you bought into the Montreal hype and truly believe that Subban is the next Orr and that Markov was the second coming) but Komi has been exactly what he was in Montreal. A slower, defensive defenseman with the occasional big hit. He has been far from our worst defenseman this year. As for the money, thats what free agency does. You overpay. Burke needed veterans to help his young team develop, otherwise you end up with the Edmontons, Columbuses, Atlanta/ Winnipegs etc, young teams full of young talent that never develop or go anywhere.

As for Lebda, he looked good in Detroit. Of course, a lot of people do. They dont do so well outside that system though.
Quote:
Also with Giguere raises questions on Burke's ability to acquire an average goaltender and assess goaltending talent during his time in Toronto. Toskala and Reimer he inherited but Giguere he traded for and Monster has been inconsistent and hopefully turning it around.Overall his big muffle as GM has been finding a consistent NHL average leaf goalie. Goaltending is the the most important role on a team and Giggy performance (with monster) likely cost leafs playoffs last year. And he hasn't been successful finding a consistent goalie for the leafs, and in particular in that trade. Terrible goaltending is part of the reason why Boston got high draft picks for the Kessel trade in both years. That is my biggest criticism of him.

????

He took Giguere basically to get rid of Toskala. How is this a negative? And Monster has been fine. He has never had a fully healthy season in the NHL until this season, and once givena long stretch of games this season to round into form he has been fine. All goalies are going to have a bad game here or there.

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02-05-2012, 09:00 AM
  #113
number72
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
At this point we still have the best player from that deal.
1. If I apply that thinking to explain the Versteeg trade for picks or Kaberle for pick + Colborne then I'd have to argue Burke lost those both, which I don't believe is so.
2. The Kessel trade only makes sense if the team makes a deep playoff run with Kessel before he begins to "decline" in production in 5 years or so. If the leafs don't make a playoff run then 2 firsts and a second is a better rebuild option.

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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
Komisarek has been fine. I'm not sure what people were expecting from this guy (unless you bought into the Montreal hype and truly believe that Subban is the next Orr and that Markov was the second coming) but Komi has been exactly what he was in Montreal. A slower, defensive defenseman with the occasional big hit. He has been far from our worst defenseman this year. As for the money, thats what free agency does. You overpay. Burke needed veterans to help his young team develop, otherwise you end up with the Edmontons, Columbuses, Atlanta/ Winnipegs etc, young teams full of young talent that never develop or go anywhere.

As for Lebda, he looked good in Detroit. Of course, a lot of people do. They dont do so well outside that system though.
Maybe we are saying the same thing, his record at sourcing solid shutdown defenders is poor (or mixed at best). On the other hand his record at sourcing puck moving defence is amazing (especially if I ignore Lebad).


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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
????
He took Giguere basically to get rid of Toskala. How is this a negative? And Monster has been fine. He has never had a fully healthy season in the NHL until this season, and once givena long stretch of games this season to round into form he has been fine. All goalies are going to have a bad game here or there.
Why would a GM set up their team to fail by acquiring a below average and underachieving goalie to play the most important position on team (goal). And if they do that then have the back up plan be an unexperienced rookie goalie (monster). Don't you see the problem? Great he replaced an expiring contract of a terrible goalie in Toskala with a 2 year contract of a better but below average performing goaltender in Giguere. And the below average play of Giguere/Monster (and Toskala) is in large part why the picks for Boston on the Kessel trade were so LOW.

Yes goalies have bad runs. But Burke acquired a longer contract for underperforming goalie (hoping for a rebound) and his back up plan was an inexperienced swedish goalie. That is not smart general management. Especially if his gamble fails, that means Boston (and not the leafs) gets some great draft picks.


Last edited by number72: 02-05-2012 at 09:50 AM.
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