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In Praise Of Wilson

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Old
02-05-2012, 10:52 AM
  #51
donkeyy0
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Originally Posted by SteveV View Post
Yes, when you've missed the playoffs since the lockout, YES, success is making the playoffs. Or did you really expect us to be cup contenders already, and if so, please direct me to your musings on how we should have gotten there already?

I'd also add, PLEASE go back and look at our lineup a couple years back, if that doesn't look like juggernaut, nothing does! So much to work with for Wilson, SO, SO much, AND we had studs like Tlusty comin up too. SO deep!
The 2009-2010 Toronto Maple Leafs iced a team which included such stiffs as Tomas Kaberle, Francois Beauchemin, Mike Komisarek, Carl Gunnarsson and Luke Schenn.

When your team has a plethora of defensively apt players, the coach should know well enough NOT to play a run n' gun style offense. That is NOT a team that should be as bad defensively as they were. Had the coach adapted his playstyle for the strengths and weaknesses on the team, they should not have suffered as significantly as they did.

The team was awful offensively, I'll give you that, which is why RW should have taken a page out of Trotz or Lemaire's playbook. Maybe not the trap, but play to your strengths dammit.

And like it or not, Mike Komisarek and Francois Beauchemin were both very good defencemen before coming here. Beauchemin is once again a very good defenceman AWAY from here. You don't think that maybe the fact that EVERY goalie struggled under his tutelage and EVERY defenceman has struggled playing for him might be because of the style he employs? It seemed obvious to me, and to many people going into that season that the team would struggle to score, but defensively they were good. You know, build from the net out...all that stuff that Burke was preaching. And yet, the coaching style seemed to directly contradict the message which the general manager was trying to put forth.

Not cup contender, but certainly Burke and Leafs Nation had their eyes set on a ranking a little higher up than dead last in the Eastern Conference.

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02-05-2012, 10:53 AM
  #52
eyeball11
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Yes, the amount of skill Wilson inherited, I mean talk about set up for success. LOL.
I hate this argument. If you lack skill, you adapt your strategies to compensate.

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02-05-2012, 10:55 AM
  #53
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I hate this argument. If you lack skill, you adapt your strategies to compensate.
LOL, okay, skill doesn't matter. I hate nonsense. Look at how well Carolina and Calgary are doing with our former players!

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02-05-2012, 10:57 AM
  #54
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Had Mike Komisarek signed his deal with Nashville or Boston rather than Toronto (obviously he wouldn't have signed in Boston, but for arguments sake) he'd look fantastic. I really believe that.

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02-05-2012, 10:59 AM
  #55
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On thing I've noticed now, since you haters have lost your PK arguments, it's pretty weak tea leftover. Now it's about trying to saddle Wilson for having BRUTAL goaltending and marginal NHLers. Can't believe we didn't win with Stajan, Hagman, Poni and Toskala, adjust your system, it would have worked!

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02-05-2012, 11:01 AM
  #56
donkeyy0
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Originally Posted by SteveV View Post
On thing I've noticed now, since you haters have lost your PK arguments, it's pretty weak tea leftover. Now it's about trying to saddle Wilson for having BRUTAL goaltending and marginal NHLers. Can't believe we didn't win with Stajan, Hagman, Poni and Toskala, adjust your system, it would have worked!
The team is still the 2nd worst PKing team in the league.

It was what, last, second last, last, and now 2nd last? PROGRESS!

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02-05-2012, 11:05 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by donkeyy0 View Post
The team is still the 2nd worst PKing team in the league.

It was what, last, second last, last, and now 2nd last? PROGRESS!
14 games without a goal, only 22 penalties taken, go back in your history book and find the last time that happened. LOL, just can't credit anything.

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02-05-2012, 11:07 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by donkeyy0 View Post
The team is still the 2nd worst PKing team in the league.

It was what, last, second last, last, and now 2nd last? PROGRESS!
If we only focus on parts of the whole, then of course. Wilson and by extension, the Leafs are complete failures. Thankfully, the road to the play-offs is measured in pts for wins and not PK%

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02-05-2012, 11:09 AM
  #59
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14 games without a goal, only 22 penalties taken, go back in your history book and find the last time that happened. LOL, just can't credit anything.
Yes. They've played well for the past month and 5 days.

That does not discount the previous 3 and a half years. They have consistently been the worst penalty killing team in the NHL until about 30 days ago. ~1000 days of ineptitude is not just forgotten. He shouldn't have been given the opportunity to succeed in turning the PK around.

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02-05-2012, 11:09 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by SteveV View Post
On thing I've noticed now, since you haters have lost your PK arguments, it's pretty weak tea leftover. Now it's about trying to saddle Wilson for having BRUTAL goaltending and marginal NHLers. Can't believe we didn't win with Stajan, Hagman, Poni and Toskala, adjust your system, it would have worked!
I don't think anyone expected a cup with those guys, but they should've finished higher than 2nd last.

Wilson's had varying results as Leafs head coach. First year he overachieved, next year he underachieved, last year was pretty close to expectations, likely a bit below and this year's team is outperforming most expectations.

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02-05-2012, 11:10 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by donkeyy0 View Post
Yes. They've played well for the past month and 5 days.

That does not discount the previous 3 and a half years. They have consistently been the worst penalty killing team in the NHL until about 30 days ago. ~1000 days of ineptitude is not just forgotten. He shouldn't have been given the opportunity to succeed in turning the PK around.
Oh, let's play that game then. So, we get to include Wilson's last season in SJ, wherein they had the best PK?

Can't believe our PK wasn't great with Toskala in there, man he was SO, SO solid eh?

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02-05-2012, 11:12 AM
  #62
donkeyy0
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Originally Posted by GrizzLeaf View Post
If we only focus on parts of the whole, then of course. Wilson and by extension, the Leafs are complete failures. Thankfully, the road to the play-offs is measured in pts for wins and not PK%
Which is funny, since I was responding to SteveV (who I think is arguing the same point as you), and his comment about how the Wilson "haters" had no point to stand on since the horrid PK was being ignored.

I should have known better than to respond to a comment which was directly pointed at the PK for fear of ridicule.

The team defence was awful till about a month ago. Not simply the PK. The PK is one symptom of a systematic failure by Ron Wilson and friends over the past 280 or so games.

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02-05-2012, 11:13 AM
  #63
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I don't think anyone expected a cup with those guys, but they should've finished higher than 2nd last.
No they shouldnt have and their play since leaving PROVES it. A bunch of bums! Stajan can barely stay in the league, ditto for Hagman, Poni is marginal, our goalies aren't even in the LEAGUE ANYMORE!

Give me a break, we had a bad, bad, bad team.

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02-05-2012, 11:15 AM
  #64
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Oh, let's play that game then. So, we get to include Wilson's last season in SJ, wherein they had the best PK?

Can't believe our PK wasn't great with Toskala in there, man he was SO, SO solid eh?
No. We can't use that argument. San Jose was a better team than Toronto is/was. They also had a better goalie.

These were facts which were known BEFORE the Leafs sucked on defence and on the PK. Knowing this, Wilson should not have thought that the Leafs could recreate the success he had in SJ. Different team, different strengths, different weaknesses. It's the coaches JOB to figure out what works and what doesn't. Not to keep banging his head against a wall till the GM ACTUALLY trades the whole team for him.

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02-05-2012, 11:15 AM
  #65
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Oh, let's play that game then. So, we get to include Wilson's last season in SJ, wherein they had the best PK?

Can't believe our PK wasn't great with Toskala in there, man he was SO, SO solid eh?
Wise money would look at the larger sample size, which doesn't bode well for Wilson.

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02-05-2012, 11:16 AM
  #66
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If wilson is able to keep this team playing this style, we have a very good chance of making the playoffs and maybe even winning a series.

In the new year, this team has had incredible special teams, massive improvement on defense, harder on the forecheck and have been able to capitalize on most opportunities. All good signs of the playoffs. Wilson deserves credit for the recent turnaround, although this may be a fluke. Time will tell.

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02-05-2012, 11:17 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by donkeyy0 View Post
Which is funny, since I was responding to SteveV (who I think is arguing the same point as you), and his comment about how the Wilson "haters" had no point to stand on since the horrid PK was being ignored.

I should have known better than to respond to a comment which was directly pointed at the PK for fear of ridicule.

The team defence was awful till about a month ago. Not simply the PK. The PK is one symptom of a systematic failure by Ron Wilson and friends over the past 280 or so games.
5 on 5 we're 7th in the league on goal ratio. What a terrible system we have!

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02-05-2012, 11:17 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Wilson's record as a coach speaks for its self.....missed the playoffs 9 years out of 17 as a head coach thus far.

The PK is good right now, penalties are down that is coaching......however may I point out that he goal-tending has been great since the new year as well.....all good PK has great goal-tending.

Not a fan of Wilson.
No, your ignorance speaks for itself. Look at the teams he was coaching! Man, where do these people crawl out from?

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02-05-2012, 11:17 AM
  #69
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I don't think anyone expected a cup with those guys, but they should've finished higher than 2nd last.

Wilson's had varying results as Leafs head coach. First year he overachieved, next year he underachieved, last year was pretty close to expectations, likely a bit below and this year's team is outperforming most expectations.
I think this team is talented enough to make the playoffs. And if they manage to miss NYR and BOS they may even win a round or two. They can match up vs. any team in the East and have a good chance at winning. The only two teams that outclass them are the best two teams in the league. Pitt, PHI, whoever. It certainly wouldn't be a forgone conclusion that they win, but the Leafs are certainly talented enough to be where they are in the standings.

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02-05-2012, 11:18 AM
  #70
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LOL, okay, skill doesn't matter. I hate nonsense. Look at how well Carolina and Calgary are doing with our former players!
Look at how Minnesota did. Look at Nashville. Look at Phoenix. Many years they don't have a ton of talent but play a system that allows them to be competitive. That's called coaching.

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02-05-2012, 11:21 AM
  #71
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Wise money would look at the larger sample size, which doesn't bode well for Wilson.
I wasn't playing "memory lane". Wise money looks at what you had to work with, and people who are conveniently trying to turn those TEAMS OF BUMS into decent squads, it is just absolutely laughable, honestly and truly. You can hate the guy all you want, but we had no depth when he came here and we got rid of almost every single guy since Burke arrived. Again, I will bet money the haters were the same guys IMPLORING Burke to ship out all these guys and rebuild, we will take the pain of losing. Now all of sudden, Wilson is on the hook for that crap. AMAZING!

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02-05-2012, 11:22 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by donkeyy0 View Post
Which is funny, since I was responding to SteveV (who I think is arguing the same point as you), and his comment about how the Wilson "haters" had no point to stand on since the horrid PK was being ignored.

I should have known better than to respond to a comment which was directly pointed at the PK for fear of ridicule.

The team defence was awful till about a month ago. Not simply the PK. The PK is one symptom of a systematic failure by Ron Wilson and friends over the past 280 or so games.
Sorry then, there have been so many posters not willing to give Wilson any credit for anything, I saw your posts in that category. Glad I was wrong and that you do indeed think Wilson has done well these last few weeks.

As for focusing on the PK, the coach and by extension the team, have changed what they do to take less penalties and have changed the PK enough to be tops in the league the last 4 or 5 weeks. The PK % was so horrible up to that point, it will take a miracle to boost those numbers past bad, but if they stay the course, and keep killing penalties, how can anyone complain!?

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02-05-2012, 11:22 AM
  #73
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5 on 5 we're 7th in the league on goal ratio. What a terrible system we have!
It's a nice stat but I think you'll be surprised during playoffs. We fail miserably against Boston because they don't allow us to get our free wheeling offense rolling. We'll run into more teams playing like that in the playoffs. That stat hides a fairly obvious issue we have. Until Wilson figures out how to overcome that, we'll struggle in those types of games.

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02-05-2012, 11:22 AM
  #74
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Look at how Minnesota did. Look at Nashville. Look at Phoenix. Many years they don't have a ton of talent but play a system that allows them to be competitive. That's called coaching.
Sure, but it is the type of coaching that Burke has said that he doesn't want. He wants agressive hockey.

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02-05-2012, 11:22 AM
  #75
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No they shouldnt have and their play since leaving PROVES it. A bunch of bums! Stajan can barely stay in the league, ditto for Hagman, Poni is marginal, our goalies aren't even in the LEAGUE ANYMORE!

Give me a break, we had a bad, bad, bad team.
Was that roster better or worse than the one that finished 7th the year before? Looks better to me with healthy/improved goaltending, an upgraded d-core and an elite scorer in Kessel. They shouldn't have been a world-beater, but should have been better than 2nd last.

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