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The Webs/Suts Rose Ceremony - All Ryan Suter/Shea Weber FA talk

View Poll Results: Do you think that we should trade Ryan Suter at the deadline?
Yes, we need to get something for him rather than nothing. 18 30.51%
No, he's more valuable than any return that we would get for him. 41 69.49%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-03-2012, 11:27 AM
  #726
deanwormer
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Woh..... I can't fathom Sutes putting up 15-20 goals playing with KK instead of Weber. He plays great D; he handles the puck well, he skates well, he's a good passer but he's not an elite PP QB by any stretch. He's capable of putting the puck in the net, but more likely as he did last night in Philly than with his "shot".

Top 10 Dman probably, top 5 probably not.

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02-03-2012, 11:42 AM
  #727
token grinder
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Suter has always had one of the weaker shots for a dman. While it has imporved, it is not great. The guy can flat out move the puck and seperate man from puck. Those are his two greatest strengths.

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02-04-2012, 04:06 PM
  #728
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Weber related RFA CBA questions.. I've seen that a number of posters are well versed in the CBA and I had. Few questions:

1. What will Nashville's minimum "qualifying offer" need to be? Must we offer more than $7.5 M or could the team offer less (say $6m) to encourage Weber to negotiate and not just sign the Q Offer?

2. If Weber selects arbitration, could the team select two years (it had been reported that Weber could have selected one or two this past offseason)?

Thanks.

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02-04-2012, 04:15 PM
  #729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmack4 View Post
Weber related RFA CBA questions.. I've seen that a number of posters are well versed in the CBA and I had. Few questions:

1. What will Nashville's minimum "qualifying offer" need to be? Must we offer more than $7.5 M or could the team offer less (say $6m) to encourage Weber to negotiate and not just sign the Q Offer?

2. If Weber selects arbitration, could the team select two years (it had been reported that Weber could have selected one or two this past offseason)?

Thanks.
You bring up some good points

1. Qualifying offers must be the same (or more). Can't be less.

2. Yes, Nashville would get to choose 1 or 2 years. I don't see Weber taking this route though.

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02-04-2012, 04:50 PM
  #730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmack4 View Post
Weber related RFA CBA questions.. I've seen that a number of posters are well versed in the CBA and I had. Few questions:

1. What will Nashville's minimum "qualifying offer" need to be? Must we offer more than $7.5 M or could the team offer less (say $6m) to encourage Weber to negotiate and not just sign the Q Offer?

2. If Weber selects arbitration, could the team select two years (it had been reported that Weber could have selected one or two this past offseason)?

Thanks.
The arbitration ruling is if he goes to arbitration and the team accepts the award it is a one year deal if the team doesn't accept the arbitors award he walks as a UFA.

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02-04-2012, 06:44 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
Suter has always had one of the weaker shots for a dman. While it has imporved, it is not great. The guy can flat out move the puck and seperate man from puck. Those are his two greatest strengths.
I agree with all of this.

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02-04-2012, 11:02 PM
  #732
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I agree with all of this.
oh god. something is wrong if we see eye to eye on something hockey related.

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02-04-2012, 11:06 PM
  #733
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Mr. Suter, I might be wrong, but you may not have the luxury of someone to save you or teammates from mistakes like that big guy who will be here the next 7 years. Just something to be thinking about......

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02-05-2012, 09:16 AM
  #734
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
He' like Scott Niedermayer with WAY less offense.
Do the stats, especially at this stage of their careers playing for D first teams, really support that assertion?

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02-05-2012, 11:26 AM
  #735
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Suter made two phenomenal plays on I believe Oshie last night (both in the 3rd period) ... Where he was literally able to separate him from the puck with one hand on his stick while stuck against the board... Sign the man

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02-05-2012, 12:14 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
Do the stats, especially at this stage of their careers playing for D first teams, really support that assertion?
When he was 24, Nidermayer scored 14g and 57 points on a defensive devils team. Niedermayer rarely scored less than 10 goals a year, usually only because of injury and when he had less ice time as a younger player. Suter has scored 4 goals the last 2 years playing opposite Weber for 25 min a night.

Beyond stats, Nidermayer could control things offensively. He dictated the powerplay. Suter just does not have the high-end offensive ability like that.

He's a great player, but not the complete package, elite of the elite dman.


Last edited by dulzhok: 02-05-2012 at 12:23 PM.
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02-05-2012, 12:17 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by Hoarding Assets View Post
Suter made two phenomenal plays on I believe Oshie last night (both in the 3rd period) ... Where he was literally able to separate him from the puck with one hand on his stick while stuck against the board... Sign the man
Remember when he completely smothered D.Sedin against the boards in the playoffs last year? Almost the same play. If we keep winning important games like this, he can't say no.

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02-05-2012, 12:26 PM
  #738
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I almost feel bad for Suter. The poor guy is stuck in a market with fans who, on the 16th sellout of the season, give him and the team an impromptu standing ovation. He has some scrub named Shea Weber as a D partner. And how the hell is he supposed to stay competitive with a perennial back-up like Rinne in net? Too bad this team isn't good enough to compete. Losing 2 of our last 16? Unacceptable. I can see where he's coming from. I pity him for being on a crappy team in a crappy market that can't be a contender.

Why is he not signing again?


Last edited by Top 6 Spaling: 02-05-2012 at 12:34 PM.
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02-05-2012, 12:32 PM
  #739
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Why is he not signing again?
I honestly don't know what he wants. Does he not realize how consistent the team has been the last few years? Vezna finalist goalie behind you, norris candidate defenseman to play with, and goals seemingly coming from every line. He must want the fame and fortune of playing in a larger market or something. I can't figure this guy out.

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02-05-2012, 12:34 PM
  #740
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Why is he not signing again?
He hasn't said that he's not. He only said that he won't ink a deal in the next 22 days.

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02-05-2012, 12:35 PM
  #741
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I honestly don't know what he wants. Does he not realize how consistent the team has been the last few years? Vezna finalist goalie behind you, norris candidate defenseman to play with, and goals seemingly coming from every line. He must want the fame and fortune of playing in a larger market or something. I can't figure this guy out.
Switch it and you got it right... Suter is the better of the two defensemen, imho, just Shea gets all the publicity

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02-05-2012, 12:52 PM
  #742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
I almost feel bad for Suter. The poor guy is stuck in a market with fans who, on the 16th sellout of the season, give him and the team an impromptu standing ovation. He has some scrub named Shea Weber as a D partner. And how the hell is he supposed to stay competitive with a perennial back-up like Rinne in net? Too bad this team isn't good enough to compete. Losing 2 of our last 16? Unacceptable. I can see where he's coming from. I pity him for being on a crappy team in a crappy market that can't be a contender.

Why is he not signing again?
haha well played

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02-05-2012, 01:42 PM
  #743
token grinder
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He isn't worried about this year, or maybe next. I think he is worried about getting stuck here if we continue being a cap floor team, i.e. not keeing guys like wilson, smith, amongst others around when it comes time to pay them too.

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02-05-2012, 01:47 PM
  #744
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Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
Why is he not signing again?
Seems he wants something bigger and better.

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02-05-2012, 02:35 PM
  #745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
When he was 24, Nidermayer scored 14g and 57 points on a defensive devils team. Niedermayer rarely scored less than 10 goals a year, usually only because of injury and when he had less ice time as a younger player. Suter has scored 4 goals the last 2 years playing opposite Weber for 25 min a night.
It's a bit disingenuous to hold up that season as the statistical proof he's "way" better. That was by far the best season he had in his 20s. Only twice in a Devils uniform did he exceed 50 points and only twice more did he exceed 40. It wasn't until the incredibly high scoring seasons right after the lockout that he was ever 'way' better.

And your point about Weber is a non-sequitur. Very little of Weber's game suggests he'd boost Suter's goal totals, especially at even strength.

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02-05-2012, 04:20 PM
  #746
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Originally Posted by Hoarding Assets View Post
Switch it and you got it right... Suter is the better of the two defensemen, imho, just Shea gets all the publicity
Shea gets all the publicity because he's currently the better dman no mind tricks or conspiracies happening here

I think Suter will have a longer, more stable career though. His offensive game needs to continue to improve (which it has). Weber's career will be a little more of a rollercoaster: highs are higher, but lows are lower

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02-05-2012, 08:46 PM
  #747
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Originally Posted by deanwormer View Post
Woh..... I can't fathom Sutes putting up 15-20 goals playing with KK instead of Weber. He plays great D; he handles the puck well, he skates well, he's a good passer but he's not an elite PP QB by any stretch. He's capable of putting the puck in the net, but more likely as he did last night in Philly than with his "shot".

Top 10 Dman probably, top 5 probably not.
I have a problem with using offensive stats to rank defensemen. To me, just because a defenseman has a lot of points doesn't make him amazing. Scoring is sexy and much appreciated, but mostly I want the defensemen to prevent goals and break the puck out of our zone well. Suter usually does a pretty amazing job at that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
I almost feel bad for Suter. The poor guy is stuck in a market with fans who, on the 16th sellout of the season, give him and the team an impromptu standing ovation. He has some scrub named Shea Weber as a D partner. And how the hell is he supposed to stay competitive with a perennial back-up like Rinne in net? Too bad this team isn't good enough to compete. Losing 2 of our last 16? Unacceptable. I can see where he's coming from. I pity him for being on a crappy team in a crappy market that can't be a contender.

Why is he not signing again?


I will laugh if he pulls a Kariya and signs with a "contender" then never sees the playoffs again. Doesn't he know how lucky he is to participate in the post-season every year? And we are thisclose to really threatening for a Cup...with players who are young enough to stay around for a good long while!

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02-05-2012, 10:56 PM
  #748
token grinder
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I have a problem with using offensive stats to rank defensemen.

!
agreed. otherwise mike green would have a closet ful of norris trophies

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02-05-2012, 11:54 PM
  #749
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Originally Posted by AEM6729 View Post
I have a problem with using offensive stats to rank defensemen.
I don't see anyone saying offensive stats are the way to rank D-men

Simply, the best of best dman are the complete package-- great d, great transition, great offense.

As for Suter's stats not benefiting from playing next to Weber... I don't see how anyone could make that argument. Weber is the highest goal scoring defensemen the league the last 4 years combined. He has the best point shot in the league. Many of Suter's assists come from Weber goals, as well as Weber shots that lead to rebound or tip goals. Not to mention, with everyone gaurding Weber's shot it opens up serious lanes for Suter, which he rarely capitalizes on.

I'm not trying to bash Suter. I just don't think he's the best of best, because his offensive game is less than elite. He has his moments, but he doesn't dictate the play like Lidstrom, Pronger, others.


Last edited by dulzhok: 02-06-2012 at 12:00 AM.
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02-06-2012, 12:29 PM
  #750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
I'm not trying to bash Suter. I just don't think he's the best of best, because his offensive game is less than elite. He has his moments, but he doesn't dictate the play like Lidstrom, Pronger, others.
I just don't see how this is true at all. When Suter is out there, the game slows down for us. We become MUCH less of a "scramble" team in the defensive zone when trying to retain possession. He controls the play and calms it down for us. We break out of the zone and up the ice SO much better when he is out there. No one else on our team does that...

Oh, btw, Lidstom has ALWAYS had an average shot. He doesn't have a booming shot and he definitely doesn't try and blast them from the point (ala Pronger, Chara, etc). I'd actually say Suter and Lidstrom's shots are very comparable -- but Lidstrom's is a lil better.

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