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In Praise Of Wilson

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Old
02-05-2012, 12:57 PM
  #176
indigobuffalo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by number72 View Post
I can flip a coin 14 times and have it come up heads 14 times.
It is rare and it happens.

I wonder if I can convince people that it is 100% skill on my part and not luck driven.
Wow, so now the Wilson haters are breaking into philosophy.

It is not Wilson coaching the team properly, it is just destiny. We are led by fate and don't have any true freedom of will, hence the occurrences of life are merely preordained events like the ripples in a pond.

Or something like that...

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Old
02-05-2012, 01:26 PM
  #177
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Doesn't Versteeg talking about playing with AHL'ers kind of support the "lack of talent Wilson had" argument?

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Old
02-05-2012, 01:48 PM
  #178
Darcy Tucker
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
You seem upset. It's okay that you didn't understand his point and it's okay that you didn't know much about the Wild. Next time you won't make that mistake though..... or at least you shouldn't, but it looks like you did it again on this page.

PS - If you use the quick reply it automatically adds the quote, so if you edit while I'm typing I won't see that response.
now whos trolling

mad? his point was Lemaire led a talentless Wild team to success. outside of a couple decent regular season records what success is there?

also didnt they get swept 4-0 by the Ducks in their only decent playoff run?

after the lockout they had back to back first round exits then nothing after that.


Last edited by Darcy Tucker: 02-05-2012 at 01:54 PM.
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Old
02-05-2012, 01:56 PM
  #179
MajorityRules
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Instead of posting sarcastic one liners you should take your opinion to the main boards and see how others feel about your views .

To be honest i don't think you give a damn about RW , you're are just supporting Burkes decision to keep him as our coach .

Seriously, give your head a shake.

There is no way you'll ever get a fair response on the main board if it has anything to do with the Leafs. NEVER.

Oh and while we're at it, we're now going to put stock in a HF boards poll? Pathetic.

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Old
02-05-2012, 02:03 PM
  #180
eyeball11
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Originally Posted by topched View Post
LOL relax for a minute. Take a deep breath.

I don't know if I would call lemaire "tremendous" or "head and shoulders above RW"

Wilson's got more wins. Sure Lemaire's got a SC but that was practically 2 decades ago.

Why is he great, because he managed to implement a trap system and make the playoffs consistently with the Wild?

There are arguments for Lemaire being a better coach, but he's far from a shoe-in.
Allow me to make this clear to you:

The OP believes that Wilson's only reason for failure was that he didn't have talented players. I stated that I hate this notion as good coaches find a way to get more out of their players than their individual talents and implement systems to allow them to compete despite their talent levels. Not one person is suggesting our 2nd to last team should have won the Cup. Not one person is saying Lemaire won the Cup with Minnesota. That's all just people with weak minded arguments trying to shift goal posts. Over and over again Lemaire took Wild teams that were not very good on paper and made them competitors for playoff berths despite on paper being cellar dwellers. In addition, over his entire career, no matter what team he was with or who the players, he almost always had a top 10 PK. If we want to carry it a step further, how do you explain what happened last season with a team full of the exact same players in New Jersey but two different coaches? Again, you'll try to shift the goal posts with some lame argument about him being retired. Guess what? It has nothing to do with the subject. We aren't asking him to coach the Leafs, we are illustrating that good coaches have repeated success in getting more from their players and implementing strategies to maximize their players assets while minimizing their weaknesses.

If any of you really struggle with these notions, try looking at centuries of warfare. There's a reason some leaders are considered greater than others. Many times the inferior on paper holds their own and it's usually through strategy.

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Old
02-05-2012, 02:05 PM
  #181
MajorityRules
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
I guess only our boards are full of intelligent , bright minded people . I'm just saying you'll get a more objective opinion on the main board .

Judging by your sarcastic response however i'll take it that you already konw what the respones would be and you don't want to humilate yourself by suggesting that Wilson is comparable to Lemaire .
You can't be serious.

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Old
02-05-2012, 02:29 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy Tucker View Post
mad? his point was Lemaire led a talentless Wild team to success. outside of a couple decent regular season records what success is there?
His point was that Lemaire was able to keep his team competetive with little talent on the roster. It wasn't that his team was a huge success and a contender every year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy Tucker View Post
also didnt they get swept 4-0 by the Ducks in their only decent playoff run?
No, Ron Wilson coached the Ducks in the early/mid 90s and had moved on to SJ (with a stop in Washington) by then.

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Old
02-05-2012, 02:30 PM
  #183
number72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveV View Post
I agree, good goaltending is imperative.

#toskala
New Jersey disagrees. There are other team systems that work when you don't have a solid goaltender (not Toskala bad thing you need a miracle then) but Giggy/Monster bad like last year). Wilson never adapted the system to win other coaches would

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzLeaf View Post
I swear, when the Leafs make the play-offs, posters will still mention how long it took Wilson to get them there, if they credit him at all.

For a board full of fans that were saying they could be patient for a rebuild (when Burke came on-board), we sure are impatient for results.
Dineen is looking like he will turn around the panther in one year.
Pat Burns turned the leafs around in one year.

It is not impossible to do, the coach needs help from the GM with solid trades.
Wilson is doing an "average" job. Not terrible nor is he overachieving - just meh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveV View Post
14 games without a goal, only 22 penalties taken, go back in your history book and find the last time that happened. LOL, just can't credit anything.
The team is not as bad as their 75% PK ability (they had a lot of bad luck) nor as good as 100% over the last 14PK. They look better now but not 100% good, I'd say they will average out to 80 to 85% by end of the season Jan 1 onward.

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Originally Posted by SteveV View Post
No they shouldnt have and their play since leaving PROVES it. A bunch of bums! Stajan can barely stay in the league, ditto for Hagman, Poni is marginal, our goalies aren't even in the LEAGUE ANYMORE!

Give me a break, we had a bad, bad, bad team.
What about 2010-2011 season - what is the excuse then? They still missed the playoffs and Burke had full control of the roster including goaltending (save Kaberle). He even benefited from JFJ draft picks in Reimer, Gunnar, Kulemin etc and Fletcher got him Grabbo. Still more excuses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveV View Post
Burns was a great coach, but he also had a great team. Gilmour was MVP, we had an awesome goalie, Clark was perhaps the best grit/skill combo in the league and our defence was stacked with solid players. Hello in there, Burns does jack without players who could EXECUTE.
Fletcher hired Burns, traded for Gilmour, signed Fuhr in his first year of GM.
Burke stayed with Wilson, traded for kessel/Phaneuf, stayed with Toskala and then traded for Giggy and signed Monster.

Only one of them made the playoffs in the second year - give credit to the coach for getting team to perform or the GM for getting the right talent or perhaps a bit of both for Burns/Fletcher. Burke/Wilson have had an average rebuild.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveV View Post
Thank you.

And please let us know ANY Leafs team that has succeeded WITHOUT that type of goaltending. Just one?
Shame on Burke for muffing goaltending for close to 3 years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
John Mitchell is a fine example of a player who was given every chance to succed in Toronto. Good for him that it is finally working out.

I don't think that the worst Leaf hater would tell you that that group of centreman is good but yet we see it here.
Lebda does "ok" on columbus and wings - why? Simple the coach knows not to give the player big and important minutes in a night and overwhelm them by treating them as 4/5 dman. It is Wilson's fault for not using a player of that quality appropriately. Other coaches seem to get how to use lower quality player effectively. That said good on Wilson for benching Komisarek the last 2 games and Burke what were you thinking?

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Old
02-05-2012, 02:58 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by number72 View Post

Lebda does "ok" on columbus and wings - why? Simple the coach knows not to give the player more then 5 minutes in a night and overwhelm them as 4/5 dman. It is Wilson fault for not using a player of that quality well. Other coaches seem to get how to use a #7D. That said good on Wilson for benching Komisarek the last 2 games and Burke what were you thinking?
Lebda played less in Toronto than he did with Detroit but not knowing has never stopped you before.

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Old
02-05-2012, 03:02 PM
  #185
EazyB97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by number72 View Post
Lebda does "ok" on columbus and wings - why? Simple the coach knows not to give the player more then 5 minutes in a night and overwhelm them as 4/5 dman. It is Wilson fault for not using a player of that quality well. Other coaches seem to get how to use a #7D. That said good on Wilson for benching Komisarek the last 2 games and Burke what were you thinking?
Wilson gave Lebda less time than the Wings and Columbus was playing him a ton before the hand injury (20+ minutes a night).

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Old
02-05-2012, 03:06 PM
  #186
Darylman
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You can't blame Wilson for using the "wrong" system given that the sytem is mandated from the GM in our team's case. This year he has much better personnel for it, and its working. Shocker.

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Old
02-05-2012, 03:10 PM
  #187
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It's almost like Burke and Wilson talk to one another.

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Old
02-05-2012, 03:57 PM
  #188
number72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Lebda played less in Toronto than he did with Detroit but not knowing has never stopped you before.
Average coaches achieve average results with average talent.
Great coaches overachieve with average and below average talent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darylman View Post
You can't blame Wilson for using the "wrong" system given that the sytem is mandated from the GM in our team's case. This year he has much better personnel for it, and its working. Shocker.
Then if Wilson is not at fault. Is Burke to blame for not acquiring or signing adequately skilled talent for the uptempo run and gun style.

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Old
02-05-2012, 04:18 PM
  #189
Hero
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Our PK is still brutal.

Our d should be like top 10 in the league imo, but it isn't

Coaching is an issue

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