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Is It A Good Idea to Fire Gauthier Now?

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Old
02-05-2012, 12:33 PM
  #301
teh doors
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Originally Posted by Tusk View Post
The Replacements used to say they are going to the middle, the middle of nowhere. But they had much more potential then the current Habs, but they also blew it.

I like music.
i'm so unsatisfied

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02-05-2012, 12:35 PM
  #302
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Kaberle was a desperate move. Taking on that salary was ridiculous - especially for a team that is apparently against burying contracts.
How was Kaberle a desperate move?

A year ago the guy was worth Colborne and a 1st and we get him for Spacek(whom everybody desperately wanted given away) and it's a bad deal?

Kaberle's salary is handly anything crazy. Cripes Toronto just extended Liles who doesn't have his teack record for about the same cap hit. The minute Kaberle is deemed to be expendable he is very moveable. It's not like he is making Gomez money(7+ mil cap hit).

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02-05-2012, 12:47 PM
  #303
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...and yet Molson lets this circus continue, instead of taking hold of his team and making the right decisions for the future. He has a coach, and GM that everyone knows will be gone next year, but he's letting them make important team decisions on the ice regardless.
What would you have him do though? Interim GM? I think the best candidates are currently busy with other teams and is best to wait to hire in the summer ( sadly ) its a ****** situation because we have an opportunity to help the team with deadline moves, but it wont necessarily be the path that the future GM wants

Molson probably has consulted various sources about what should be done with assets, but i dont think it is too hard to trade off future UFA's for draft picks..prospects should be assessed by Timmins for now, ultimately every trade will have to go through Molson, so dont expect to see any drastic changes

Gill, Campoli, Moen should be traded for picks at deadline, maybe ak46 depending on return my personal opinion would be to re-sign, and if he can get anything for : gomez, kabrele then do that, beyond those 6 players ( you could include weber but im on the fence with him) no drastic core changes should be made until off season

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Old
02-05-2012, 12:52 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
From PG of course.

Both made no sense. Then there was the coaching fiascos. There was also NO long term plan at all. All we've seen are reactive moves. This clown needs to go.

It's not just that he made desperate moves it's what he did NOT do...

Or Carter for our 1st. Coming soon to a TV near you.
The was a long term plan, we have 8-9 first or second year players. Sometimes plans fall off the rails. Your best player misses most of the year, your top goalie has an off year. 3 veterans on defense go down. Crap happens.

Nothing that happens is taking from the long term plan.

Cammalleri was unhappy here, would ahve been dumb NOT to move him, especially for that return where we get a more useful player PLUS add a pick and a prospect and almost 3 mil in cap room. How is that NOT a huge win.

There was no coaching fiasco, the fiasco was the separatist clowns. has nothing to do with the team or GM, though I think the owner should tell them to mind theor own business.

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02-05-2012, 01:41 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
The was a long term plan, we have 8-9 first or second year players. Sometimes plans fall off the rails. Your best player misses most of the year, your top goalie has an off year. 3 veterans on defense go down. Crap happens.

Nothing that happens is taking from the long term plan.

Cammalleri was unhappy here, would ahve been dumb NOT to move him, especially for that return where we get a more useful player PLUS add a pick and a prospect and almost 3 mil in cap room. How is that NOT a huge win.

There was no coaching fiasco, the fiasco was the separatist clowns. has nothing to do with the team or GM, though I think the owner should tell them to mind theor own business.
do you remember PG's pre-season press conference about this year?

His main argument/comment, was that our group's biggest strength was that we had very little roster changes since summer of '09, and that it was a competitive advantage since most teams would have undergone much more change in the same time span... I think he even made the point that our roster had the most "longevity" together in the league (or something to that affect).


by the mid-point of the season he had fired 2 coaches (including head coach), and traded away two vets with long tenure.

as for the struggling team's best performers thus far?

- cole (new addition)
- Desharnais (2nd year with big team)
- patches (2nd year with big team)

not too mention that Emelin & Diaz (2 other brand new players) establishing themselves as #3-4 dmen on the team, ahead of Gill & departed Spacek.


if that doesn't highlight how poorly PG's ability to ***** his own roster is, I don't know what else you need.

The guy has no direction or plan, he's a reactionary decision-maker & his arrogance all but ensures that those reactionary moves are ill-thought out.

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02-05-2012, 03:03 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
do you remember PG's pre-season press conference about this year?

His main argument/comment, was that our group's biggest strength was that we had very little roster changes since summer of '09, and that it was a competitive advantage since most teams would have undergone much more change in the same time span... I think he even made the point that our roster had the most "longevity" together in the league (or something to that affect).


by the mid-point of the season he had fired 2 coaches (including head coach), and traded away two vets with long tenure.

as for the struggling team's best performers thus far?

- cole (new addition)
- Desharnais (2nd year with big team)
- patches (2nd year with big team)

not too mention that Emelin & Diaz (2 other brand new players) establishing themselves as #3-4 dmen on the team, ahead of Gill & departed Spacek.


if that doesn't highlight how poorly PG's ability to ***** his own roster is, I don't know what else you need.

The guy has no direction or plan, he's a reactionary decision-maker & his arrogance all but ensures that those reactionary moves are ill-thought out.
You must be talking about Gainey, if anybody was reactionary it was Gainey.

Gauthier is more the calculated and methodical type.

People have been clamoring for more size and younger players, well he's getting the roster younger and bigger but now everybody wants a new direction. Typical HF Boards.

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Old
02-05-2012, 04:14 PM
  #307
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imo the guy is allowed to change his philosophy and adapt without having to make an announcement to the fan and the world that he made some mistakes.

we've gotten bigger and tougher. he balled up and traded halak, got us eller, signed cole, managed to dispose of cammy while not getting fleeced, and saving a bit of cap. getting wiz at the time was a great move and paid off as much as it could. also diaz, who is average, but cost us NOTHING. a small gamble that paid off. even if we don't end up needing him, we created trade value that can be packaged, out of thin air just by signing him and him performing.

he also resigned gorges. sure he could have done it last year, and saved a million dollars by locking him up. but wtv, seriously. he still got him locked and he played it safe. what a ****fest it would have been on here if he signed him a la markov and we had 2 guys out all year with bum knees and fresh contracts...come on, he was at least smart with that one.

he also got emelin here. whether he had a big part in that or not, he gets credit for it. just like obama got osama and ghadaffi. it happened during his tenure, he did it.

sure, we traded some 2nd rounders for rentals, but we also got some picks in those trades, and we prospects we got back were once 2nd rounders themselves. so what's the problem?

in general his moves have been lateral at worst, with a few upgrades and 1 gem.

the only useless move was trading spacek for anything but a pick or AHLer, but at the time there was still a shot at the playoffs and there was and still is an outside chance that kabs can play well. still probably his worst move, if you had to pick one.

and the whole markov debacle and not being prepared on D..

we're also not smurfs anymore. not huge, but not laughably small. and emelin's hits alone kinna pull the team towards the 'huge' side.




still overall, barring what happens from now to the trade deadline, i wouldn't really have a problem keeping him. we'll see what he does with gomez and the offseason. i think he has a plan, i think it's different from his old one, and we should be happy that he has less of a one track mind than we may think. if next season is like this season by january, then can him, but let's see who we get to coach and how our D looks.

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Old
02-05-2012, 10:07 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
The was a long term plan, we have 8-9 first or second year players. Sometimes plans fall off the rails. Your best player misses most of the year, your top goalie has an off year. 3 veterans on defense go down. Crap happens.

Nothing that happens is taking from the long term plan.

Cammalleri was unhappy here, would ahve been dumb NOT to move him, especially for that return where we get a more useful player PLUS add a pick and a prospect and almost 3 mil in cap room. How is that NOT a huge win.

There was no coaching fiasco, the fiasco was the separatist clowns. has nothing to do with the team or GM, though I think the owner should tell them to mind theor own business.
Right, there was a long term plan, no coaching fiasco, everything's fine...

Just move along nothing to see here folks. Nevermind the disaster by the side of the road, nothing to see here at all. Move along, move along...

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02-05-2012, 10:11 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Right, there was a long term plan, no coaching fiasco, everything's fine...

Just move along nothing to see here folks. Nevermind the disaster by the side of the road, nothing to see here at all. Move along, move along...
Honestly though, we're not in a bad position. A bunch of prospects are moving up to the AHL, decent cap room, above-average talent, lots of 1st/2nd year players and no more Jacques Martin.

You want to blow it all up?

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Old
02-05-2012, 10:21 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by HarlemsFinest View Post
imo the guy is allowed to change his philosophy and adapt without having to make an announcement to the fan and the world that he made some mistakes.

we've gotten bigger and tougher. he balled up and traded halak, got us eller, signed cole, managed to dispose of cammy while not getting fleeced, and saving a bit of cap. getting wiz at the time was a great move and paid off as much as it could. also diaz, who is average, but cost us NOTHING. a small gamble that paid off. even if we don't end up needing him, we created trade value that can be packaged, out of thin air just by signing him and him performing.

he also resigned gorges. sure he could have done it last year, and saved a million dollars by locking him up. but wtv, seriously. he still got him locked and he played it safe. what a ****fest it would have been on here if he signed him a la markov and we had 2 guys out all year with bum knees and fresh contracts...come on, he was at least smart with that one.

he also got emelin here. whether he had a big part in that or not, he gets credit for it. just like obama got osama and ghadaffi. it happened during his tenure, he did it.

sure, we traded some 2nd rounders for rentals, but we also got some picks in those trades, and we prospects we got back were once 2nd rounders themselves. so what's the problem?

in general his moves have been lateral at worst, with a few upgrades and 1 gem.

the only useless move was trading spacek for anything but a pick or AHLer, but at the time there was still a shot at the playoffs and there was and still is an outside chance that kabs can play well. still probably his worst move, if you had to pick one.

and the whole markov debacle and not being prepared on D..

we're also not smurfs anymore. not huge, but not laughably small. and emelin's hits alone kinna pull the team towards the 'huge' side.




still overall, barring what happens from now to the trade deadline, i wouldn't really have a problem keeping him. we'll see what he does with gomez and the offseason. i think he has a plan, i think it's different from his old one, and we should be happy that he has less of a one track mind than we may think. if next season is like this season by january, then can him, but let's see who we get to coach and how our D looks.
Excellent post.

If he's kept as GM, he's got some big decisions to take that would determine the direction the club will go in the next couple of years, similar to the Halak/Price decision he had to face a couple of years ago.

Need a new coach.

Need a solid, legitimate top 4 D. 2 if Markov's done.

The world awaits.

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Old
02-05-2012, 10:32 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Honestly though, we're not in a bad position. A bunch of prospects are moving up to the AHL, decent cap room, above-average talent, lots of 1st/2nd year players and no more Jacques Martin.

You want to blow it all up?
Bunch of prospects, top pick, some good young players... that's great. Let's build on it.

The reason my approach seems so crazy to you is that I want us to GO for a cup. I don't want us to continue screwing around with guys who aren't going to take us anywhere. I don't care if that means missing the playoffs next year or even the year after. How you go about building a cup winning team is completely different than how you go about building an 8th place team. I know it's nice to make the playoffs and I know that folks believe that if you make the postseason you might have a chance but we've tried this forever and it hasn't led us anywhere.

That's why I was against Bourque, Kaberle, Cole, Tanguay, Cammy, Gomez, Gionta etc... of those signings panned out okay and some didn't. But the pattern is mediocre teams. It's nice that Eric Cole for example is playing with heart but he's not going to lead this club to a cup. He's 30+ years old... why are we going after these kinds of guys?

We need to adopt a PLAN if we're going to win a cup. Blindly waiting to see who's on the free agent market from year to year is wholly reactive. Moreover, it's led us nowhere. It finally looks like we might get a top pick this year. Great! Let's speed up the process and load up on more prospects. We can play the kids next year (at least those that are ready.) Tinordi, Leblanc, Bealieau, Emelin, Diaz, Max, PK... Give the guys who are ready a shot. Let's see how good they are. Deal away the vets that you can if you can get a good return. If not, then keep whoever's left of Cole, Bourque, Pleks...

I'm just tired of watching us spin our wheels getting mediocre players to pass off as 1st liners. We're just not going to win that way.

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02-05-2012, 10:37 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by m00ks View Post
Excellent post.

If he's kept as GM, he's got some big decisions to take that would determine the direction the club will go in the next couple of years, similar to the Halak/Price decision he had to face a couple of years ago.

Need a new coach.

Need a solid, legitimate top 4 D. 2 if Markov's done.

The world awaits.
that's exactly what I thought going into last offseason...

cap space opening up, big decisions to be made on defense...

we ended up with:
-signed/injured markov
- 1 year deal for Gorges leading to a more expensive long term extension
- Campoli as a failed stop-gap
- 4.25M$ for 2 more years of Kaberle
- Gill anchoring the Pk while struggling in 10-12min/game of ES time


diaz & emelin have worked out well, so kudos there I suppose, otherwise I'd call it a pretty big failure on his part.

absolutely no confidence that he'll get it right this offseason.

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02-05-2012, 10:43 PM
  #313
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We are not a lottery team, a lot of people don't understand this. Have a look at our GF/GA, right now we sit at -8. Now compare it to the teams around us, they range from the -20 to the -54. What this tells me is the habs are losing a lot of very close games and that is the sort of situation that can turn around in an instant depending on confidence alone. I believe this team had its confidence shattered early and never recovered. We should be in a 6th - 9th place right now or better and I fully expect that next year. This is going to be a one year problem.

This was the same problem we had for many years but usually we would win many close games, the tide turned eventually and now we have a lottery shot. Don't expect another because it isn't coming.

Most important move isn't going to be a roster player it is who our coach is. We get the right coach and we could easily win the division next year, all about confidence and respect. Martin/Cunneyworth don't instill those attributes in our players.

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02-05-2012, 10:53 PM
  #314
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
We are not a lottery team, a lot of people don't understand this. Have a look at our GF/GA, right now we sit at -8. Now compare it to the teams around us, they range from the -20 to the -54. What this tells me is the habs are losing a lot of very close games and that is the sort of situation that can turn around in an instant depending on confidence alone. I believe this team had its confidence shattered early and never recovered. We should be in a 6th - 9th place right now or better and I fully expect that next year. This is going to be a one year problem.

This was the same problem we had for many years but usually we would win many close games, the tide turned eventually and now we have a lottery shot. Don't expect another because it isn't coming.

Most important move isn't going to be a roster player it is who our coach is. We get the right coach and we could easily win the division next year, all about confidence and respect. Martin/Cunneyworth don't instill those attributes in our players.
We are a lottery team. At this point we are anyway, no sense trying to deny it. Would we be one next year? If we came back with this roster next year I doubt it. I'm actually surprised that we aren't at least fighting for a playoff spot this year but I guess it is what it is.

The important thing to note here though is that even if we aren't a lottery team next year, we're also not a contender. That's why I think we should take this opportunity to rebuild. We might as well get it over with because if we do, I think we'll be better off in the long term going forward.

That's part of the reason why I want to get rid of Gauthier. I see no vision from him at all. I see a series of reactive moves designed solely for short term benefit. I mean Kaberle? Seriously? What does that do other than try to squeak us into 8th place this year? And how does adding a guy like that with his deal benefit us down the road? It doesn't.

Those kinds of deals might be good enough to squeak into the playoffs sometimes but that's not planning. That is not planning. It is reactive, panic driven moves that are motivated by fear not vision. We need a guy with a plan and he needs to execute. I don't see PG as that guy.

And it scares me to death that he might just be deseperate enough to go and pay top dollar for Jeff Carter. The guy only cares about saving his own skin now and the only way he thinks he can do it is via a window dressing trade. If he can just get 8th place, I'm sure he'll feel his job is safe. And I think he'll do whatever it takes to try to get there. That's why I don't want anything to do with him. I think he cares more about saving his neck than he does about the longterm success of our team. Get rid of this guy.

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02-05-2012, 10:54 PM
  #315
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I can't believe the low management IQ of some people.
Gauthier has moved from situation to situation reacting, digging larger and larger holes along the way. Everything he touches turns to ****.

He's given away talent, given away draft picks , taken on bad players and bad contracts. He's failed to address any shortcoming of the team and driven the team to lottery pick status.

If you think that's the work of a methodical person "with a plan" then you need to learn a thing or 2 about planning.

This guy is now the punch line of hockey jokes and he can't be out of my sight quick enough.

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02-06-2012, 12:14 AM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
that's exactly what I thought going into last offseason...

cap space opening up, big decisions to be made on defense...

we ended up with:
-signed/injured markov
- 1 year deal for Gorges leading to a more expensive long term extension
- Campoli as a failed stop-gap
- 4.25M$ for 2 more years of Kaberle
- Gill anchoring the Pk while struggling in 10-12min/game of ES time


diaz & emelin have worked out well, so kudos there I suppose, otherwise I'd call it a pretty big failure on his part.

absolutely no confidence that he'll get it right this offseason.
Everything else is secondary to be honest. It was an "all-in" with Markov while Campoli/Emelin/Diaz as some sort of insurance. Gutsy move but also calculated and understandable. Ultimately though, it blew up in his face.

That said, I didn't expect him to rebuild a defensive core in one off season. Sometimes the wait and see approach is better since different players become available at different times. So there was some logic in his gamble.

I think nothing has changed and we're still at a wait and see approach regarding Markov's situation.

As for the Kaberle trade, I've echoed where I stand. I liked it and still like it and with the proper support, and I emphasize on proper, it was a finding wallet on the floor. Need a coach who understands player skillsets and dynamics though. I hope Boucher gets canned in Tampa.


Last edited by m00ks: 02-06-2012 at 02:35 AM.
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02-06-2012, 01:09 AM
  #317
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I'm quite happy with the idea of drafting some players that can make the team into a team like the one of the 70's.This season and next isn't much to give up for a Dynasty again!

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02-06-2012, 02:30 AM
  #318
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I can't believe the low management IQ of some people.
Gauthier has moved from situation to situation reacting, digging larger and larger holes along the way. Everything he touches turns to ****.

He's given away talent, given away draft picks , taken on bad players and bad contracts. He's failed to address any shortcoming of the team and driven the team to lottery pick status.

If you think that's the work of a methodical person "with a plan" then you need to learn a thing or 2 about planning.

This guy is now the punch line of hockey jokes and he can't be out of my sight quick enough.
This is what I am missing... which trade for picks deals are you talking about?
Ive seen him add a second for a 5th, & lose a 7th this year.

Last year's Wiz for a 2nd was a good trade.

He hasnt gone crazy dealing high end picks. In fact there isnt a trade I can think of in re: a bad situation to a transaction involving our draft picks.

Furthermore, what talent? Trotter? Cammalleri? Spacek?
Are you saying Halak?

None of those deals do I disagree with.

Trotter for Nokes got us a 4th linr bigger bodied RH Center. When on his game, Nokes is a pest + he's young too...

Cammalleri & his comments were bad. His performance leding up to the comments were even worse.

His 2 goals in 7 games with a -6 in Calgary is showing much more of the same. Rene's 2G 2A -1 in 9GP I will definately take, esp at 1/2 the price, 3 mill a year and a BETTER scoring clip over the past 2 years, and a STRONGER on ice presence. Bourque clearly is involved in the play when he doesnt have the puck. Cammalleri was never getting involved defensively... + He got a second rounder to boot.

Spacek filled a different role than the org thought he would when he first showed up here. His o game seemed to have fallen off big time.Many try to say TOI for Kaberle... But that is the interim coaches decision, close to the deadline, with a handful of guys that are playing to maximize their value on the point. 14 points in 24 games, he's doin allright here. He's doing MORE than Spacek did.

All of them have affordable contracts (Kaberle 4.25, Bourque's 3.33, Nokes league minimum (or at least around it)

Campoli was free, and at worst IMO they are playing him now to increase his value for a draft pick. Same goes for Gill. Ice time now IMO will not reflect the same ice time after trade dealine. Simly because of the fact that some options will likely be gone, and others will likely appear.

Of all people, I dont think he did anything wrong. Furthermore, I like the fact that he is proactive in his dealings with players with contracts, and the fact that he does tinker to try to get better is a positive as well.

I guess it depens how close or far you truly feel we are... I think his moves in the past 9 months or so, put us in a better situation LONG TERM.

We have the buildings of a strong d.
Kaberle, Markov, Gorges, Subban, Emelin, Diaz and Weber.

Out would/will be Campoli, Gill, & possibly one of the 7 above.

What I like about the d he's setting in, is that is a very good crew for puck transition. Lots of options to move that puck forward.
Defensively, 2 shot blockers, a heavy hitter, and a decent 2 way option, along with a general. They arent going to be overtly intimidating, but they IMO will be efficient.

If anything, Id add one more physical d, and I would believe we are set.

Forward wise, he's clearing up the issue with lack of size. Cole and Bourque change the landscape of the top 6. Lose Camm, bring on Patches, Gio... with Kost as back up, and Leblanc, or hopefully a developing Pulashaj to help along... We dont have bad to 6 wingers.

The center.. if anything, is undersized in the top 6 role. Pleks is awesome 2 way C... & Des is smart & talented... Eller is turning out well, and may turn in to a fine option.
Or with a bad showing, we might get a very good selection in the draft...

In another thread, I alluded to the fact that I wouldnt be surprised, or upset that TT would go in the shuffle that loses Gauthier his position. One thing to say here, is if Gauthier is here for another season... I would be willing to bet it ensures TT would be as well. I NEVER did say it would be a bad thing... Only meant that I'd accept it either way.

At the end of the day, this issue is in Molson's hands. He'll ultimately have the final call... Personally, I wont get upset either way. He has his strikes this year as well (poor performance, the coaching fiasco, and the uprising that led to that letter).

There is positives to draw from as well. I know many dont like the guy, but he is not the devil incarnate when it comes to this team's GM duties. Yeah, the wheels fell off this year. But if the chips fall in to place (as I hope they do) I think we could be contending as early as next year.

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02-06-2012, 02:52 AM
  #319
schumway2
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If you have a replacement in mind and ready to take over then yeah but there's no immediate rush. It's not like we have some blue chipper we're dangling and in need of a GM with a plan to make the deal. Gauthier can trade away fodder like Gill, Moen, Campoli on his own just fine.

In response to the people saying we're not as bad as our ranking, that's even more reason to finish at the bottom. No we're not this bad which is why it's a perfect opportunity to land a young stud while we can. We got lucky with the draft in '05 and got Price. Now let's do it again. We have the perfect opportunity to start off in a new direction. Take it!

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02-07-2012, 03:00 PM
  #320
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I can't imagine Pierre having any latitude to do his job right now. For that it must be uncomfortable for him.

Watching TV, listening to radio, listening to fans on the board and call in shows, it's all transitioned from speculating about "if" Gauthier will be fired on to what needs to be done "when" Gauthier is fired.

Social media is also piping in overwhelmingly calling for the GM's head. I can't imagine his escaping his fate like Murray did in Ottawa.

With 29 games to go it's going to be very uncomfortable for Gauthier, just from this perspective it might be best to pull the bandaid and get this over with.

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