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Will Bryzgalov ever be worth his contract? All Bryz Discussion Here. Part Three

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02-06-2012, 06:04 PM
  #126
sa cyred
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Since you seem to cant quote yet again @Bernie Parent 1974.

When do you start to question if he SHOULD stay those 9 years? Say we all call this season a fluke. What if he does the same the next season. Is that still ok? What if we changed the defense and he still does it? What about Lavy gets fired but he STILL plays 3.00 GAA, <.900 sv%. I guess the question is, if you say its too early, when is it ok to start to question him?

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02-06-2012, 06:08 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
Lundqvist is 15-20 in the playoffs .. has never been past round 2 [pretty sure].

hasn't been past rd 1 since 2007.

numbers are not everything. if Bryz lives up to his career numbers over the 9 years, i'll be happy. give us a CUP = exstatic
I'm not willing to wait 9 games or 9 years for him to figure it out. If he can't get his play together, I'd cut him the second you get an amnesty clause or get a third goalie. The Flyers can't keep wasting years off of talented young players' contracts to let him come around. Put up or shut up. This isn't PeeWee.

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02-06-2012, 06:52 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Scoopyten View Post
Bryzgalov has struggled, sometimes mightily.

I wasn't aware that I made any excuses for him. He absolutely needs to play better. I doubt anyone, even his most ardent fan would admit that.

As far as others making excuses for him, that's on them. I think that he's had the worst case of luck I have seen a goalie have and it's really affected his game. It has him guessing rather than using fundamentally strong approaches. A questionable goal immediately has him feeling off his game.

That run of bad luck, combined with the shaky defense and lack of familiarity has really snowballed on the guy. He didn't suddenly forget how to play at a high level, but he needs work on his mental approach and fundamentals
Bad luck? He doesn't cover the post and gets scored on repeatedly, doesn't put the paddle down, same thing, plays too deep in his net, can't save a deflection because his reaction time is too slow. No luck there, just bad fundamentals. You sound like the broadcast crew who constantly makes excuses for him.

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02-06-2012, 06:53 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
What if he does the same the next season.
next season ? i can't look past tomorrow. the Flyers are gonna keep him for a good long time, so our opinions mean zero.

i do want to see him to get better, but i can't label goals 3 and 4 awful. [has been very good in 2012, but still needs more confidence]

i also want people to lay off him

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02-06-2012, 06:56 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by MsWoof
He doesn't cover the post and gets scored on repeatedly, doesn't put the paddle down, same thing, plays too deep in his net, can't save a deflection because his reaction time is too slow. No luck there, just bad fundamentals.
absolutely covered the post since WC, had paddle properly down vs NYR, he has challenged well [more since WC], and on deflections like goal #1 vs NYR, NO goalie 'reacts' to that

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02-06-2012, 07:01 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Bad luck? He doesn't cover the post and gets scored on repeatedly, doesn't put the paddle down, same thing, plays too deep in his net, can't save a deflection because his reaction time is too slow. No luck there, just bad fundamentals. You sound like the broadcast crew who constantly makes excuses for him.
Part of it is his play, part of it is luck. He's had more than his share of goofy deflections. If you think that he simply forgot how to play goal after being one of the better goalies in the NHL for the past three or four years, then I really don't know what to say to you.

It's seems obvious that you're not looking at it objectively and that you're ignoring the prior 300+ games of his career that got him the big contract.

Unfortunately, the bad luck, the poor play and the shaky defense has combined to shake his confidence, which has hurt his game. His fundamentals are off. He's not out challenging shooters, and he's been caught cheating, expecting to have to be ready for a quick pass to an uncovered opponent standing all alone at the side of the net.

The level of play has been poor. Anybody that disputes that is a fool or completely biased themselves. But to ignore the other factors is just as bad and just as short sighted

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02-06-2012, 07:01 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Since you seem to cant quote yet again @Bernie Parent 1974.

When do you start to question if he SHOULD stay those 9 years? Say we all call this season a fluke. What if he does the same the next season. Is that still ok? What if we changed the defense and he still does it? What about Lavy gets fired but he STILL plays 3.00 GAA, <.900 sv%. I guess the question is, if you say its too early, when is it ok to start to question him?
I don't speak for BP1974 but I think there is no real answer to your question, it's more of an "I know it when I see it" kind of thing. It is 100% certainly too early right now to call this experiment a failure. As much crap as he is getting (deservedly so, for the most part), he could easily get red hot at any second. Next year probably is too early as well. In year three if he hasn't turned you probably start really wondering what is going on.

People have to remember it is a nine year contract. If he was awesome this year but sucked next year do you start to call for his head at that point? Guys have down years. I'm not saying that means he is going to rebound, but people are going nuts over this because of his play in half a season. That being said, if there is some sort of amnesty deal in the next CBA I think you do consider ditching him.

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02-06-2012, 07:06 PM
  #133
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When the only luck you have is bad luck...I don't think it comes down to luck anymore. The problem is you. Good goalies make their own luck.

I agree with DFF: If this fabled amnesty comes to pass this summer, the organization needs to think long and hard about whether they want Bryz's contract or Pronger's; that will be an interesting dilemna.

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02-06-2012, 07:10 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
When the only luck you have is bad luck...I don't think it comes down to luck anymore. The problem is you. Good goalies make their own luck.

I agree with DFF: If this fabled amnesty comes to pass this summer, the organization needs to think long and hard about whether they want Bryz's contract or Pronger's; that will be an interesting dilemna.
What would be interesting to see is if the amnesty clause would trump the NMC. Could be some interesting dilemmas with the coming CBA (if this clause actually goes down).

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02-06-2012, 07:11 PM
  #135
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I did. I don't think any of those goals by the 'premier' goalies was as bad as Bryz's second. Fleury got pulled after the third goal, but that was still an awful goal for Johnson to give up. I still think it's a bad goal because it's easily preventable for him. That goal from behind the net that Vokoun gave up -- he lost that puck because it was up in the air and landed in front of the goal; Bryz saw Gaborik get the puck and tracked it the whole time. He was a little lazy there and it cost him.
Not sure how laziness comes into play there.

At any rate, both of those close-in goals would be labeled "awful" by the Bryz Haterz. I know that label doesn't apply to you, just sayin'.

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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
I agree that it's easy to blame the goalie. However, I've watched and played enough hockey to know when someone's not carrying his weight. Bryz isn't the only one, but when you play goalie and you don't play up to your contract and ability, you're going to have to face the music. I don't think Laviolette is perfect at all. However, given the roster that he has and the turnover that the team has had, I'd say he's doing a pretty good job.
Fair enough.

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I think hung out to dry is overstating it. The team as a whole played well yesterday.
38 shots allowed to a team that is in the lower half of the conference in offense is not "pretty well".

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There were plenty of plays where the Rangers were out of position and let up a good opportunity. Difference was that their goalie bailed them out.
I think that's bunk. Bryzgalov faced as many quality chances in the first half of the game as Lundqvist faced all game.

I sure would like to see Chances and Odd Man Rushes but I cannot find the numbers.

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02-06-2012, 07:11 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
When the only luck you have is bad luck...I don't think it comes down to luck anymore. The problem is you. Good goalies make their own luck.

I agree with DFF: If this fabled amnesty comes to pass this summer, the organization needs to think long and hard about whether they want Bryz's contract or Pronger's; that will be an interesting dilemna.
I don't think anyone is saying that it comes down to luck, again, it's one of the many factors that have contributed to the whole.

A big part of it, the biggest part of it, is his play. That has to improve. By and large it has been getting better. Yesterday was a setback. The key is staying on track from here on out.

There's going to be bad deflections and fluke goals. To say that Bryzgalov has been afflicted with more than his fair share of them this year isn't an exaggeration in the least. It's a cause and effect that could well hurt his confidence and have him ignoring his fundamentals and trying to do too much.

I wish it was as simple as him being awful. That makes the decision an easy one.

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02-06-2012, 07:12 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
What would be interesting to see is if the amnesty clause would trump the NMC. Could be some interesting dilemmas with the coming CBA (if this clause actually goes down).
NMC only affect movement to another team/league/waivers. In the summer, the NMC can't stop a regular buyout. I doubt an amnesty buyout would differ.

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02-06-2012, 07:12 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Scoopyten View Post
Part of it is his play, part of it is luck. He's had more than his share of goofy deflections. If you think that he simply forgot how to play goal after being one of the better goalies in the NHL for the past three or four years, then I really don't know what to say to you.

It's seems obvious that you're not looking at it objectively and that you're ignoring the prior 300+ games of his career that got him the big contract.

Unfortunately, the bad luck, the poor play and the shaky defense has combined to shake his confidence, which has hurt his game. His fundamentals are off. He's not out challenging shooters, and he's been caught cheating, expecting to have to be ready for a quick pass to an uncovered opponent standing all alone at the side of the net.

The level of play has been poor. Anybody that disputes that is a fool or completely biased themselves. But to ignore the other factors is just as bad and just as short sighted
Well-stated.

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02-06-2012, 07:13 PM
  #139
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i cant fathom how much slack is being cut to Brzy compared to any other goalie we've had recently.

i remember when i was asking for Leights to get even 1/2a seasons worth of games to see how he did.

but with only 1 preseason game,1 reg. game and 1 playoff game. the overriding demand here was to throw him on the fire.

yet somehow were now paying a guy a retardely larger amount of money who us putting up worse results yet people still seem fine to wait out years to see results.

it boggles my mind.

was Leighton ever gunna be the "guy" here ??? prolly not. but i would have liked to have seen a 1/2 season to really find out

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02-06-2012, 07:13 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Scoopyten View Post
NMC only affect movement to another team/league/waivers. In the summer, the NMC can't stop a regular buyout. I doubt an amnesty buyout would differ.
Good point. Forgot about regular buyouts. Haha.

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02-06-2012, 07:16 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
i cant fathom how much slack is being cut to Brzy compared to any other goalie we've had recently.

i remember when i was asking for Leights to get even 1/2a seasons worth of games to see how he did.

but with only 1 preseason game,1 reg. game and 1 playoff game. the overriding demand here was to throw him on the fire.

yet somehow were now paying a guy a retardely larger amount of money who us putting up worse results yet people still seem fine to wait out years to see results.

it boggles my mind.

was Leighton ever gunna be the "guy" here ??? prolly not. but i would have liked to have seen a 1/2 season to really find out
How much slack is cut for Bryzgalov? You should see my twitter feed after he allows any goal-good, bad or indifferent. It's a litany of Bryz Sucks, back in the woods, Humongus bad...

The difference between Leighton and Bryzgalov in terms of "slack" is, Bryzgalov has been one of the better goalies in the NHL for the past four years. Leighton was a guy grabbed off recall waivers who had never been a starter before.

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02-06-2012, 07:37 PM
  #142
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Flyers scouts are at another Leafs game according to twitter. One has got to think if there are any trades in the future, one might be the leafs. What or who we are going after is another question.

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02-06-2012, 07:39 PM
  #143
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Flyers scouts are at another Leafs game according to twitter. One has got to think if there are any trades in the future, one might be the leafs. What or who we are going after is another question.
I read that there's 28 scouts or GM's in Toronto...that press box spread is getting demolished.

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02-06-2012, 07:39 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
i cant fathom how much slack is being cut to Brzy compared to any other goalie we've had recently.

i remember when i was asking for Leights to get even 1/2a seasons worth of games to see how he did.
that's because Leighton was a waiver acquisition & didn't sport a .914 sv % 2.57 GAA and get a 9 year 51million $ deal.

i just don't feel Bryz is the Biron, Esche, Boucher - like sieve. time will tell

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02-06-2012, 07:44 PM
  #145
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As I've stated before I think Bryzgalov is a great goalie. But at this point, he's not doing well. Goals 2, 3, and 4 were bad goals. It does happen every once and a while to ALL good goalies, but its happening over and over and over again to bryz.

As much as I like bryz, I can't look past his bad play. Do I think he'll improve? Yes I do, but like most flyer fans, my patience is thin because he's getting paid to have I together by now.

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02-06-2012, 07:56 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Scoopyten View Post
I read that there's 28 scouts or GM's in Toronto...that press box spread is getting demolished.
Quote:
20 teams have scouts/reps at EDM/TOR game. These teams DON'T have anyone, not counting 2 clubs playing: BUF, CBJ, LA, MTL, NJ, NYI, NYR, SJ
-David Pagnotta

Meh..

EDIT: I didnt notice I posted this in the wrong thread. Meant to go in the JVR thread. Oh well.

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02-06-2012, 07:58 PM
  #147
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For those complaining about the shots on net....

You guys do realize that he let in two of his four goals in the third period which featured the LEAST amount of shots against him out of all three periods. Just nine shots that period compared to 14 with the previous two.


Last edited by hckyplayer8: 02-06-2012 at 07:59 PM. Reason: grammar
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02-06-2012, 08:09 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Devastate View Post
As I've stated before I think Bryzgalov is a great goalie. But at this point, he's not doing well. Goals 2, 3, and 4 were bad goals. It does happen every once and a while to ALL good goalies, but its happening over and over and over again to bryz.

As much as I like bryz, I can't look past his bad play. Do I think he'll improve? Yes I do, but like most flyer fans, my patience is thin because he's getting paid to have I together by now.

The bottom line is, he's going to have to be the one that starts the turnaround by stepping up and getting his game worked out. The team in front of him is missing pieces and relying heavily on rookies and expecting them to suddenly turn into the 1995 Devils isn't realistic.

So, he's got to step it up and start playing better. He had been playing better, and stumbled yesterday. He should get another chance tomorrow night to continue the process.

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02-06-2012, 08:15 PM
  #149
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Marty Biron was hardly a sieve when he played for the Flyers .

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02-06-2012, 08:37 PM
  #150
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Marty Biron was hardly a sieve when he played for the Flyers .
You just knew he would give up a backbreaking goal or two per game.

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