Pens had most injuries of any team in the NHL this year
It is no coincidence, and perhaps no surprise, that teams incurring the most injuries generally suffer in the standings, as the Islanders and the Oilers did. And teams with the fewest injuries tend to prosper.
Looking at this season's totals for games lost to injury at the all-star break, the seven clubs with the fewest injuries are almost all in position to make the playoffs. They include Boston (32 games lost), Chicago (49), San Jose (66), Nashville (93), Los Angeles (94) and Detroit (99). Among the top seven, only Phoenix (82) is not currently in a playoff position.
I saw that about Boston the other day as well and was wondering about Marc Savard. Did he retire, or if not, does he not count towards man-games lost?
As for the Pens, I think their depth of grinders matches the system they employ, making them a tough team to play against for teams with superior skill. Credit to Bylsma and especially Shero for fitting such a deep team under the cap despite paying over 17M to two players. I wonder how Chicago would do without Toews or Hossa. Although Philly is doing fairly well without Pronger so far and have survived the loss of Richards and Carter.
I know the Isles ran into injury problems last season, but how the heck do they have 230 man games lost this year? The vast majority of their core roster has played almost a full schedule.
This is the big issue I have with man-games lost, as it's currently reported by the press. It doesn't really take into account who is injured. The Pens have lost players like Crosby, Letang, Michalek, and Staal for a lot of the season. The Isles have lost, who? DiPietro? Jay Pandolfo? Brian Rolston? Trevor friggin' Gillies?
The Pens' injuries are legitimate ones that could very well affect a team's standing. A team like the Isles, who've had the good fortune of all their core guys being healthy, are missing the playoffs because they're not very good, not because they've run into injury problems.
I know the Isles ran into injury problems last season, but how the heck do they have 230 man games lost this year? The vast majority of their core roster has played almost a full schedule.
This is the big issue I have with man-games lost, as it's currently reported by the press. It doesn't really take into account who is injured. The Pens have lost players like Crosby, Letang, Michalek, and Staal for a lot of the season. The Isles have lost, who? DiPietro? Jay Pandolfo? Brian Rolston? Trevor friggin' Gillies?
The Pens' injuries are legitimate ones that could very well affect a team's standing. A team like the Isles, who've had the good fortune of all their core guys being healthy, are missing the playoffs because they're not very good, not because they've run into injury problems.
Yeah I don't get how the Islanders have missed that many as well, are they counting DiPietro like 2x?
I saw that about Boston the other day as well and was wondering about Marc Savard. Did he retire, or if not, does he not count towards man-games lost?
Savard is basically on permanent LTIR which doesn't seem to count.
Some teams have the number on their website, This is the Flyers page for man games lost (apparently hasn't been updated since Jan 21 as both Jagr & Rinaldo are back and Briere has missed at least 6 games with his concussion alone), but as you see it does not include Ian Laperriere who like Savard is most likely on LTIR for good. Apparently because neither player is really expected back, they are not counted.
As for the Islanders Mark Katic has been on IR since September so he's gobbling up games for them just like Markov is for Montreal. I'm shocked Florida isn't higher, but I'm gonna guess they're probably after Columbus and heading up.
Not surprising, but it's surprising how well they've held up. Teams like the Canadiens & Sabres have fallen hard in the standings because of the injuries.
How about the Bruins a good luck, only 32 games? unreal.
Not surprising, but it's surprising how well they've held up. Teams like the Canadiens & Sabres have fallen hard in the standings because of the injuries.
How about the Bruins a good luck, only 32 games? unreal.
Haha, that is crazy. That is about two weeks worth for us.
Anything around 200 games at the halfway point is a lot of games for any team, but as McGuirk said the key is who are the players. That's what makes our situation doubly amazing IMO. We're not only not suffering in the standings so far, we're missing mostly our very best players at different times. Sid obviously but also Letang was huge, Staal, Michalek... it's pretty impressive work by the coaching staff to get these guys mentally prepped to deal night in and night out.
Only question is, does this prove that it's more about hustle than talent. In which case, talent coming back from injury doesn't help us unless the same urgency is there. Maybe we should skip the deadline and stay a one line team. Heh. [added: Or maybe, the hustle only overcomes the losses when you have an all-world C remaining a great sniper and some all-world D and G too? We're pretty damn lucky.]
Anything around 200 games at the halfway point is a lot of games for any team, but as McGuirk said the key is who are the players. That's what makes our situation doubly amazing IMO. We're not only not suffering in the standings so far, we're missing mostly our very best players at different times. Sid obviously but also Letang was huge, Staal, Michalek... it's pretty impressive work by the coaching staff to get these guys mentally prepped to deal night in and night out.
Only question is, does this prove that it's more about hustle than talent. In which case, talent coming back from injury doesn't help us unless the same urgency is there. Maybe we should skip the deadline and stay a one line team. Heh.
Remember several times this year, basically our entire defense was out at the same time.
I think it is a tribute to two things, both attributable to Shero mostly, Bylsma next, ownership third.
1. The borderline NHL signings Shero made in the offseason, like Park, for WBS, giving us a lot of depth.
2. The system we play throughout the organization. Meaning you can plug people into the needed positions almost seemlessly. No, a WBS defenseman of forward is not going to replace a Neal or Letang. But the dropoff is far less precipitous if the guy is already well schooled in how the Pens' play and what is expected of him.
The individual players have stepped up as well, but the two points above have enabled them to far more easily.
I know the Isles ran into injury problems last season, but how the heck do they have 230 man games lost this year? The vast majority of their core roster has played almost a full schedule.
This is the big issue I have with man-games lost, as it's currently reported by the press. It doesn't really take into account who is injured. The Pens have lost players like Crosby, Letang, Michalek, and Staal for a lot of the season. The Isles have lost, who? DiPietro? Jay Pandolfo? Brian Rolston? Trevor friggin' Gillies?
The Pens' injuries are legitimate ones that could very well affect a team's standing. A team like the Isles, who've had the good fortune of all their core guys being healthy, are missing the playoffs because they're not very good, not because they've run into injury problems.
Even though his on-ice performance has been crap in recent years, the salary-cap hit of DiPietro is $4.5 million. That's more money not playing in a game than the $4M the Pens miss when Staal's out.
I haven't really had a chance to think it through, but I wonder if Bylsma's system contributes to the number of injuries.
Certainly, I could understand why an up-tempo, attacking, puck-posession approach would increase the likelihood of injury. All three of those adjectives could be argued to make players more likely to be hit.
2. The system we play throughout the organization. Meaning you can plug people into the needed positions almost seemlessly. No, a WBS defenseman of forward is not going to replace a Neal or Letang. But the dropoff is far less precipitous if the guy is already well schooled in how the Pens' play and what is expected of him..
Bingo. This is really the crux of it IMO, and I expect given our good performances last year and this year despite all the injury abuse, that teams will start emulating this if they're not already. IOW not necessarily OUR system but the system of teaching the same things / plays / strategies at both levels.
It does seem to work really well for us and Shero / Disco deserve a lot of credit for it.
Savard and Laperriere are considered nonroster players since they haven't played yet.
1) It doesn't change the point about the Pens, but I don't think it's fair to exclude Savard for that reason, especially since other teams may treat those players differently (pretty sure Montreal's figure includes Markov for example). Savard's cap hit still counts, he's not even on LTIR (like Laperriere is).
2) Anybody wants to try to figure out how they got to 244 for the Pens? I gave up.
1) It doesn't change the point about the Pens, but I don't think it's fair to exclude Savard for that reason, especially since other teams may treat those players differently (pretty sure Montreal's figure includes Markov for example). Savard's cap hit still counts, he's not even on LTIR (like Laperriere is).
2) Anybody wants to try to figure out how they got to 244 for the Pens? I gave up.
Yeah, the injury report stuff varies from team to team as you pointed out Bruins don't include Savard and Flyers don't include Laperriere, but the Canadiens (pretty sure) include both Markov and Ryan White.
1) Bruins don't need to put him on LTIR yet while the Flyers have been straddling the upper limit as have the Pens the entire season.
1) It doesn't change the point about the Pens, but I don't think it's fair to exclude Savard for that reason, especially since other teams may treat those players differently (pretty sure Montreal's figure includes Markov for example). Savard's cap hit still counts, he's not even on LTIR (like Laperriere is).
2) Anybody wants to try to figure out how they got to 244 for the Pens? I gave up.
My mistake. Savard is not on LTIR, but that is because the Bruins don't need the cap space as of right now, unlike the Flyers. If and when they need that space he'll be moved.
That said, I think Lappy & Savard are basically retired without officially being retired where as Markov is still trying to make a comeback (he has been skating lately, though who knows if he'll really be ready in time before the season ends to play).
As for the Penguins:
Derryk Engellend-2
Arron Asham -~11
Dustin Jeffrey-22
Robert Bortuzzo-9
Ben Lovejoy-19
Matt Niskanen-1
Brian Strait-25
Jordan Staal-~19
Evgeni Malkin-7
Brooks Orpik -8
Kris Letang-21
Richard Park-10
Tyler Kennedy-11
Zbynek Michalek-10
Sidney Crosby- ~45
Paul Martin-7
Simon Despres- ~12
I got help from TSN + Yahoo, but still may have some wrong numbers because I'm bad at math, so, yeah, see any problems let me know. Think that only adds up to 239 though. For the record, I didn't include suspensions
Even though his on-ice performance has been crap in recent years, the salary-cap hit of DiPietro is $4.5 million. That's more money not playing in a game than the $4M the Pens miss when Staal's out.
I'm not really sure what your response has to do with what I was getting at in my post. I was talking about how much impact these players make on their team, not on their cap hit.
The Isles losing DiPietro, if anything, HELPS their on-ice product because he's awful and allows them to use better goalies. What does his salary have to do with his actual impact as a player?
I watch a lot of Islander games, and I'm gonna call shenanigans on that.
Nino missed some games with a concussion as did Ullstrom. Eaton broke his foot or something, but it got better. There was a very short period of time where all 3 goalies went down. Haley got a cup of coffee to inject some energy when the team wasn't working hard and hurt his hand.
Aaaaaand that's about all I can think of. Tavares played through whatever was wrong with him after the Hedman hit and I can't think of anyone else who missed more than, like, one stray game at any point.
