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Timonen on difference between Flyers and Rangers: “The goalie”

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Old
02-06-2012, 09:34 PM
  #26
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Saves can be made on deflections?

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02-06-2012, 09:35 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
ok, not his fault you say. It is a teams game? Right?

Still, **** this type of goaltending. We had Boucher doing this type of **** for nothing. What are we doing here. I do not understand.
Bryz has cost the Flyers games this season but yes that is what I am saying in regards to this game. The loss can't be placed squarely on Bryz because the Flyers were overmatched all over.

Rangers were superior in goals, shots, scoring chances, hits, faceoffs, blocked shots, and takeaways.

As far as signing Bryz goes hindsight is 20/20. Statistically this is the worst season of his career. When he was brought in we got a goalie with a rich history of success who was expected to compete for the Vezina every season. A guy who carried teams with far less talent then the Flyers. Unfortunately he is a headcase but the Front Office had the right idea.

If he doesn't turn it around at least the Flyers are the best team in the NHL when it comes to burying bad contracts and finding loopholes in the system.

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02-06-2012, 09:43 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
so you are saying turnovers, bad defense is ok? what planet are you on? anything to blame goalies, it's a team game, blaming one player wont change anything. the problem is you want a cup and they pay him all this money just to be superman in your delusional mind, well great goalies have bad years, both goalies are struggling so what's your solution? get another one? no!!! it will not solve anything, they need to stop turning the puck over and tighten the d, great goalies cant play with bad defense. what's your issue, do you hate him or something?

look it doesnt matter what goalie comes here, it's the same problem.
So if it doesn't matter what goalie comes here, then why are we paying this guy 5.6 million a year?

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02-06-2012, 09:46 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Tim Tebow View Post
Bryz has cost the Flyers games this season but yes that is what I am saying in regards to this game. The loss can't be placed squarely on Bryz because the Flyers were overmatched all over.

Rangers were superior in goals, shots, scoring chances, hits, faceoffs, blocked shots, and takeaways.

As far as signing Bryz goes hindsight is 20/20. Statistically this is the worst season of his career. When he was brought in we got a goalie with a rich history of success who was expected to compete for the Vezina every season. A guy who carried teams with far less talent then the Flyers. Unfortunately he is a headcase but the Front Office had the right idea.

If he doesn't turn it around at least the Flyers are the best team in the NHL when it comes to burying bad contracts and finding loopholes in the system.
Hindsight argument is BS considering how many people questioned the contract initially.

Bryz also didn't carry the coyotes. They've had a pretty good team for a few years that no one acknowledges.

I never bought that bryz was an elite goalie. But I also never fathomed he was this bad

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02-06-2012, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
So if it doesn't matter what goalie comes here, then why are we paying this guy 5.6 million a year?

im talking about another top notch goalie that comes here, if you want bryz gone, like thomas, price, quick etc, ok if bryz didnt come here, what goalie would you want here? boucher, leighton are not starters, neither is bob, so if they stuck it out with bob and boucher and pronger got hurt, you think it would be different? do you watch the playoffs last year? they are not starters!

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02-06-2012, 09:53 PM
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That's the point. If it's no different, why are we paying twice what we paid Boosh and Bob combined?

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02-06-2012, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
So if it doesn't matter what goalie comes here, then why are we paying this guy 5.6 million a year?
thats what ive been getting at.

if were getting crap results we might aswell be paying crap wages in that position.

to get worse stats then last year but paying out what we are this year in net. its simply not acceptable.

and completly a waste of cap space.

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02-06-2012, 10:00 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
im talking about another top notch goalie that comes here, if you want bryz gone, like thomas, price, quick etc, ok if bryz didnt come here, what goalie would you want here? boucher, leighton are not starters, neither is bob, so if they stuck it out with bob and boucher and pronger got hurt, you think it would be different? do you watch the playoffs last year? they are not starters!
If bob isn't a starter with near .920 save percentage playing on the same team, then what does that make bryz? Objectively, there's little difference between bob and bryz this season. Difference is the expectations are far, far, apart

As far as playoffs go, Did you watch bryz last year in the playoffs? He was horrible.

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02-06-2012, 10:01 PM
  #34
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How many of you arguing for Bryz actually watched the full game? The goalies were the difference in this game, so much so that the post game crew practically blamed the game on Bryzgalov. They usually just blame it on poor defensive play and leave Bryz alone, but that was not the case after the Ranger game.

I'm all for Bryz and I'm still pulling for him, but a big reason why we brought him in here was so he could save our *** when our defense would breakdown.Right now he can't consistently make the saves we need from him to stay in games, he makes routine saves look 100 times harder than they need to be and his rebound control is awful. In my opinion Bryz is nowhere close to the goalie "upgrade" we thought he would be.

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02-06-2012, 10:06 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
thats what ive been getting at.

if were getting crap results we might aswell be paying crap wages in that position.

to get worse stats then last year but paying out what we are this year in net. its simply not acceptable.

and completly a waste of cap space.
it's not a waste unless he never wins a cup in nine 9 years, this fanbase has no patience with this team and goaltending, bottom line it will not happen with the way the defense is playing and turnovers. that cant happen, say if bryz goes to another team with great defense and plays great, it makes flyer fans look like idiots.

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02-06-2012, 10:08 PM
  #36
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As bad as we played, we came back and tied the game.
Gaborik scored that **** kicking soft goal. I was patient and gave Bryzgalov credit
Guess what, we came back and tied it 45 sec into 2nd period on PP goal by Simmonds
Only to get scored on by Del Zotto 36 sec later. Now I was pissed. You can not give up 2 soft goals against NYR or any other team in the league.
Carle classic turnover and Dubinsky's goal was icing on the cake.

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02-06-2012, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ICAPNASTYI View Post
How many of you arguing for Bryz actually watched the full game? The goalies were the difference in this game, so much so that the post game crew practically blamed the game on Bryzgalov. They usually just blame it on poor defensive play and leave Bryz alone, but that was not the case after the Ranger game.

I'm all for Bryz and I'm still pulling for him, but a big reason why we brought him in here was so he could save our *** when our defense would breakdown.Right now he can't consistently make the saves we need from him to stay in games, he makes routine saves look 100 times harder than they need to be and his rebound control is awful. In my opinion Bryz is nowhere close to the goalie "upgrade" we thought he would be.


with all due respect, good teams dont have breakdowns, it's almost like it's ok for a team to play crap defense like the flyers are and expecting bryz to bail them out every time, that cant happen, that's why bob was struggling against the devils and islanders. you cant excuse breakdowns, they cant happen.

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02-06-2012, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
As bad as we played, we came back and tied the game.
Gaborik scored that **** kicking soft goal. I was patient and gave Bryzgalov credit
Guess what, we came back and tied it 45 sec into 2nd period on PP goal by Simmonds
Only to get scored on by Del Zotto 36 sec later. Now I was pissed. You can not give up 2 soft goals against NYR or any other team in the league.
Carle classic turnover and Dubinsky's goal was icing on the cake.

i cant believe that goalies that come here have to be god savers, for a crap defense, they can only do what they can, eventually they will breakdown. both goalies on this team are struggling, it's evident that it's the defense and turnovers, how can you not see that?

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02-06-2012, 10:20 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
with all due respect, good teams dont have breakdowns, it's almost like it's ok for a team to play crap defense like the flyers are and expecting bryz to bail them out every time, that cant happen, that's why bob was struggling against the devils and islanders. you cant excuse breakdowns, they cant happen.
I'm not expecting Bryz to bail them out every time they screw up, but every now and then it would be nice. I can't remember the last time Bryz "stole" a game for us or kept us in it.

And ALL teams have breakdowns, even the good ones.

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02-06-2012, 10:20 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
with all due respect, good teams dont have breakdowns, it's almost like it's ok for a team to play crap defense like the flyers are and expecting bryz to bail them out every time, that cant happen, that's why bob was struggling against the devils and islanders. you cant excuse breakdowns, they cant happen.
Every team has breakdowns, including good teams. Otherwise, they'd never get scored on. The difference is that teams like New York and Boston have goaltenders who can bail out their team.

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02-06-2012, 10:21 PM
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, say if bryz goes to another team with great defense and plays great, it makes flyer fans look like idiots.
i disagree. i wish all players that get traded away good fortune.

sometimes things just dont work out between a player and a team.

so be it.

if Bryz gets shipped id wish him good luck where ever he lands.

nothing embaressing about a player going on to good things elsewere.

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02-06-2012, 10:38 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
i cant believe that goalies that come here have to be god savers, for a crap defense, they can only do what they can, eventually they will breakdown. both goalies on this team are struggling, it's evident that it's the defense and turnovers, how can you not see that?
Same coach, same defense, same team except a few new players defensively and a goalie. How come Bob/Boosh could play behind this "crap defense" but Breezy cant? Unless your telling me Richards and Carter made Boosh and Bob look better than Breezy.

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02-06-2012, 10:51 PM
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Hindsight argument is BS considering how many people questioned the contract initially.

Bryz also didn't carry the coyotes. They've had a pretty good team for a few years that no one acknowledges.

I never bought that bryz was an elite goalie. But I also never fathomed he was this bad
I am not talking about his contract I am talking about his performance. If Bryz was playing like he did in years past it would be a different story.


Seriously? On Your planet a team that finishes in 29th of 30 NHL teams impresses you?

The Coyotes the season before Bryz.
NHL Rank: 29th of 30
Conference: 15th of 15
Let me also include the fact that this teams defense was ranked 28th in the NHL.

But I guess someone with a brain can see those are clearly pretty good numbers... lol

And as you recall they claimed Bryz off waivers so they were once again at the bottom of the NHL. They finished that season 23rd of 30 NHL teams and 12th of 15 in the conference.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/PHX/2008.html
^Link to that teams end of season stats. Feel free to look at the goalies stats and records and tell me Bryz wasn't huge for that teams turnaround.

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02-06-2012, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
i cant believe that goalies that come here have to be god savers, for a crap defense, they can only do what they can, eventually they will breakdown. both goalies on this team are struggling, it's evident that it's the defense and turnovers, how can you not see that?
I think our goalie was broken from the start and i do not mean the start of the game but the start of this season.

I want to scream: I want my money baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack and I want it noooooooooow.


Edit: yes Flyers D turns the puck over. Guilty!

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02-06-2012, 11:12 PM
  #45
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To those under the impression that Bob's numbers are good because he's played against "weaker" teams, you are wrong. He's looked a thousand times better and more confident than Bryz has at any point this season. He was the single reason we beat the underestimated Isles 2/3 times this season, and nearly all the other games he's started as well.

He works his *** of and continues to get better at his game every day. Remember the Bob last season who couldn't handle the puck to save his life? Compare that to now and I'd put him in the top 3 puck handling goalies. Every game Bob looks alert and ready to go, looks all around traffic and his ability to pick up the puck on a re-direct is incredible.

I actually feel bad for him. The amount of improvement in his game compared to last season shows how hard he worked in the off-season and the Flyers rewarded him by signing an under skilled and over-rated goaltender.

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02-06-2012, 11:26 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Tim Tebow View Post
I am not talking about his contract I am talking about his performance. If Bryz was playing like he did in years past it would be a different story.


Seriously? On Your planet a team that finishes in 29th of 30 NHL teams impresses you?

The Coyotes the season before Bryz.
NHL Rank: 29th of 30
Conference: 15th of 15
Let me also include the fact that this teams defense was ranked 28th in the NHL.

But I guess someone with a brain can see those are clearly pretty good numbers... lol

And as you recall they claimed Bryz off waivers so they were once again at the bottom of the NHL. They finished that season 23rd of 30 NHL teams and 12th of 15 in the conference.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/PHX/2008.html
^Link to that teams end of season stats. Feel free to look at the goalies stats and records and tell me Bryz wasn't huge for that teams turnaround.
PHX got decent when they got Bryz, and Bryz played fairly well. Bryz then started playing at a Vezina level in 09-10 and 10-11 to an extent. Coincidently, 09-10 is also the year they hired Dave Tippett. Bryz won over 40 games, posted 8 shutouts, had his GAA drop almost .70 points, and his save pecentage went up noticeably as well once Tippett came in in 09-10.

I still can't believe people are saying that the system doesn't matter.

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02-06-2012, 11:31 PM
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To those under the impression that Bob's numbers are good because he's played against "weaker" teams, you are wrong. He's looked a thousand times better and more confident than Bryz has at any point this season. He was the single reason we beat the underestimated Isles 2/3 times this season, and nearly all the other games he's started as well.

He works his *** of and continues to get better at his game every day. Remember the Bob last season who couldn't handle the puck to save his life? Compare that to now and I'd put him in the top 3 puck handling goalies. Every game Bob looks alert and ready to go, looks all around traffic and his ability to pick up the puck on a re-direct is incredible.

I actually feel bad for him. The amount of improvement in his game compared to last season shows how hard he worked in the off-season and the Flyers rewarded him by signing an under skilled and over-rated goaltender.
He let up 5 against WPG twice, and just let up 6 to the Devils. He's certainly more confident and competitive than Bryz, but he's not always playing a lot better. He's certainly not one of the top 3 puck handling goalies. Not even close.

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02-06-2012, 11:31 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by ICAPNASTYI View Post
To those under the impression that Bob's numbers are good because he's played against "weaker" teams, you are wrong. He's looked a thousand times better and more confident than Bryz has at any point this season. He was the single reason we beat the underestimated Isles 2/3 times this season, and nearly all the other games he's started as well.

He works his *** of and continues to get better at his game every day. Remember the Bob last season who couldn't handle the puck to save his life? Compare that to now and I'd put him in the top 3 puck handling goalies. Every game Bob looks alert and ready to go, looks all around traffic and his ability to pick up the puck on a re-direct is incredible.

I actually feel bad for him. The amount of improvement in his game compared to last season shows how hard he worked in the off-season and the Flyers rewarded him by signing an under skilled and over-rated goaltender.

well said and 100% agreed.

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02-06-2012, 11:37 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by ICAPNASTYI View Post
To those under the impression that Bob's numbers are good because he's played against "weaker" teams, you are wrong. He's looked a thousand times better and more confident than Bryz has at any point this season. He was the single reason we beat the underestimated Isles 2/3 times this season, and nearly all the other games he's started as well.

He works his *** of and continues to get better at his game every day. Remember the Bob last season who couldn't handle the puck to save his life? Compare that to now and I'd put him in the top 3 puck handling goalies. Every game Bob looks alert and ready to go, looks all around traffic and his ability to pick up the puck on a re-direct is incredible.

I actually feel bad for him. The amount of improvement in his game compared to last season shows how hard he worked in the off-season and the Flyers rewarded him by signing an under skilled and over-rated goaltender.
Bob is okay. I am not sure what your logic is behind this though. Bob may have improved with his puck handling but he certainly is not a top 3 puck handling goalie yet. Not even close.

On top of that statistically Bob's stats are all down this season. His GAA, his save percentage, still no shutouts. All worse then last season.

When you look at his splits they are erratic. Strong on the road, terrible at home. Not so hot vs the division and honestly he really has had a weaker schedule then Bryz that isn't an opinion it is an actual fact.

I am not defending Bryz on this but Bob isn't exactly doing anything special. He's been average.

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02-06-2012, 11:42 PM
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PHX got decent when they got Bryz, and Bryz played fairly well. Bryz then started playing at a Vezina level in 09-10 and 10-11 to an extent. Coincidently, 09-10 is also the year they hired Dave Tippett. Bryz won over 40 games, posted 8 shutouts, had his GAA drop almost .70 points, and his save pecentage went up noticeably as well once Tippett came in in 09-10.

I still can't believe people are saying that the system doesn't matter.
Systems matter but you can't put so much stock into them. If it was that easy to make any terrible goalie a Vezina finalist why doesn't everyone do it?

I know you didn't say this but it reminds me of when Flyers fans used to yap about how Broduer wasn't a good goalie and he was just a product of the system. A system can help a goalie but they still have to have the talent to post those numbers.

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