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Is Michalek the new Fisher?

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Old
02-07-2012, 12:10 AM
  #26
Stylizer1
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Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
44th in league scoring in 06-07 and missed 14 games. He was on pace to match Getzlaf's production that year. Note that Getzlaf was Anaheim's #2C. So if you are really telling me that Mike Fisher wasn't a legit #2C the year we went to the Finals, then Anaheim also won the Cup without a #2C.
Mike Fisher is always on pace for a number he never reaches. How many times did Alfie have to go down to and play with Fisher because they they weren't producing? What Getzlaf did for Anaheim down the middle on the second line would have probably won us the Cup too.

Getzlaf's playoff production is what made him a lot better than Fisher.

Fisher was a 3rd line centre for us in the playoffs.

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02-07-2012, 12:15 AM
  #27
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Agree with this but I never saw Fisher as winger. Fisher was/is truly Kesler lite with less offense/skill. So tenacious with a motor that never quits. That's so valuable in the defensive zone and you don't want that guy waiting at the points. Very good puck handler through the neutral too, helped the transition game. He was never a natural playmaker but lots of guys play his style effectively at centre.
Agree 100%... After re reading what I wrote I wasnt as clear as I thought I was....I love Fisher in the middle for his relentless play, defensive ability....

I meant him being on the wing to Maximize his scoring only... Im sure as a winger he could have cheated abit because of his defensive IQ and gotten alot of scoring opportunities...and playing with a true playmaker he could have used his shot alot more....

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02-07-2012, 12:17 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
Or gives him an excuse why his scoring is down. Nothing thus far has shown him to be able to handle pressure and perform.
Well it's me that's suggesting injury is a possibility for why he's been struggling, not Michalek, so I wouldn't say it 'gives him an excuse.'

Michalek's a streaky player, and I think injury is a factor in why he'll suddenly go from playing well to falling off the map. At the same time, he does struggle with consistency. Prior to this season, you see a lot of 0's looking at his Gamelogs (below). I think a big issue he also had prior to this season was a lack of chemistry with a skilled centre (Spezza). For a finisher like Michalek, he needs someone to feed him the puck, even if he's just going to force his way down the wing on his own or head off on a break-away.

With Spezza also cold at the moment (hopefully just due to a passing bout of flu) Michalek's stats have plummeted, just as they always have without a skilled centre (Spezz really does not play well when sick/injured).

If all goes as planned, I think the Sens want to see 9MM pushed out of a top 3 role in the future and have him line-up as a 2nd line winger with Turris. He's not your ideal top-line player, but he has a role on this team.

*Michalek's Gamelogs: http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id...eason=20112012

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02-07-2012, 12:18 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
Mike Fisher is always on pace for a number he never reaches. How many times did Alfie have to go down to and play with Fisher because they they weren't producing? What Getzlaf did for Anaheim down the middle on the second line would have probably won us the Cup too.

Getzlaf's playoff production is what made him a lot better than Fisher.

Fisher was a 3rd line centre for us in the playoffs.
Oh the mysterious "pace" that Michalek never reaches either??

If Fisher was our 3rd line Center who was our 2nd line C????

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02-07-2012, 12:20 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
Mike Fisher is always on pace for a number he never reaches. How many times did Alfie have to go down to and play with Fisher because they they weren't producing? What Getzlaf did for Anaheim down the middle on the second line would have probably won us the Cup too.

Getzlaf's playoff production is what made him a lot better than Fisher.

Fisher was a 3rd line centre for us in the playoffs.
I seem to recall Fisher being one of the few guys actually playing hard in the Finals. Spezza and Heatley disappeared. Stats support this actually.

1Cs:
Spezza: 2A
McDonald: 5G 2A

2Cs:
Fisher: 2G 2A
Getzlaf: 2G 2A

However, yes, Fisher's overall playoff production was lower than Getzlaf's. But Fisher stepped up in the Finals even when Spezza took a step back, and Fish matched Anaheim's 2C scoring in that series.

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02-07-2012, 12:28 AM
  #31
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That reminds me how solid of a checking line Anaheim had, along with Pronger and Neidermayer

or how much of a 1-line team we were in 07

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02-07-2012, 12:28 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by AWJ View Post
Well it's me that's suggesting injury is a possibility for why he's been struggling, not Michalek, so I wouldn't say it 'gives him an excuse.'

Michalek's a streaky player, and I think injury is a factor in why he'll suddenly go from playing well to falling off the map. At the same time, he does struggle with consistency. Prior to this season, you see a lot of 0's looking at his Gamelogs (below). I think a big issue he also had prior to this season was a lack of chemistry with a skilled centre (Spezza). For a finisher like Michalek, he needs someone to feed him the puck, even if he's just going to force his way down the wing on his own or head off on a break-away.

With Spezza also cold at the moment (hopefully just due to a passing bout of flu) Michalek's stats have plummeted, just as they always have without a skilled centre (Spezz really does not play well when sick/injured).

If all goes as planned, I think the Sens want to see 9MM pushed out of a top 3 role in the future and have him line-up as a 2nd line winger with Turris. He's not your ideal top-line player, but he has a role on this team.

*Michalek's Gamelogs: http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id...eason=20112012
I still dont think Michalek and Spezza have "chemistry"... They produce at times but so does Greening, Alfie, etc...Michalek is a solid player but I wouldnt call a guy that has a career high of 26 goals a "finisher" by any means...

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02-07-2012, 12:30 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Philadelphia Collins View Post
That reminds me how solid of a checking line Anaheim had, along with Pronger and Neidermayer

or how much of a 1-line team we were in 07
More or less, their checking line shut Spezza-Heatley down and our checking lines couldn't stop their stars. I forgot how much McDonald exploded in that series.

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02-07-2012, 12:38 AM
  #34
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Fisher is a 3rd line center as Michalek is a second line winger.

Problem? Fisher played on the second line for us while Michalek is on the first.

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02-07-2012, 12:39 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
I seem to recall Fisher being one of the few guys actually playing hard in the Finals. Spezza and Heatley disappeared. Stats support this actually.

1Cs:
Spezza: 2A
McDonald: 5G 2A

2Cs:
Fisher: 2G 2A
Getzlaf: 2G 2A

However, yes, Fisher's overall playoff production was lower than Getzlaf's. But Fisher stepped up in the Finals even when Spezza took a step back, and Fish matched Anaheim's 2C scoring in that series.
The series is becoming pretty foggy for me (I can't believe it's been so long) but as I remember our top-line was shut-down by probably the best defence pairing of the 21st century in Pronger-Neidermayer (maybe rivalled by Lidstrom-Rafalski, Weber-Suter). Sure, Fisher and Alfredsson still had to contend with Beauchemin, but if it had been Alfie-Fisher vs Pronger-Neidermayer and Spezza-Heatley against Beauchemin-X, we would have seen Heatley-Spezza put up far better numbers.

No doubt about it though, Fisher's been great in the playoffs since the lock-out.

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02-07-2012, 12:44 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Legend Killer View Post
I still dont think Michalek and Spezza have "chemistry"... They produce at times but so does Greening, Alfie, etc...Michalek is a solid player but I wouldnt call a guy that has a career high of 26 goals a "finisher" by any means...
Well, I'm not quite sure what to call him really. I guess the best descriptor would be two-way forward.

When I say finisher, I'm saying he's sure as hell not a play-maker, and most of his goals come from him finishing off a scramble, a tip, a tap-in. He's no sniper, he's no play-maker, he's certainly not a finesse player, he's more skilled than a grinder... yeah, I guess he's probably a TWF with a little finish thrown in.

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02-07-2012, 12:45 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by AWJ View Post
The series is becoming pretty foggy for me (I can't believe it's been so long) but as I remember our top-line was shut-down by probably the best defence pairing of the 21st century in Pronger-Neidermayer (maybe rivalled by Lidstrom-Rafalski, Weber-Suter). Sure, Fisher and Alfredsson still had to contend with Beauchemin, but if it had been Alfie-Fisher vs Pronger-Neidermayer and Spezza-Heatley against Beauchemin-X, we would have seen Heatley-Spezza put up far better numbers.

No doubt about it though, Fisher's been great in the playoffs since the lock-out.
I agree, probably should've had different wording. I just get tired of people insinuating that it was Fisher's fault we lost the Cup Finals because he wasn't a #2C. Reality is Anaheim had better depth all around, especially with two HHoFers on the backend.

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02-07-2012, 12:49 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
Fisher is a 3rd line center as Michalek is a second line winger.

Problem? Fisher played on the second line for us while Michalek is on the first.
No they're both 2nd line players who shouldn't be the main offensive cog on their line.

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Originally Posted by AWJ View Post
The series is becoming pretty foggy for me (I can't believe it's been so long) but as I remember our top-line was shut-down by probably the best defence pairing of the 21st century in Pronger-Neidermayer (maybe rivalled by Lidstrom-Rafalski, Weber-Suter). Sure, Fisher and Alfredsson still had to contend with Beauchemin, but if it had been Alfie-Fisher vs Pronger-Neidermayer and Spezza-Heatley against Beauchemin-X, we would have seen Heatley-Spezza put up far better numbers.

No doubt about it though, Fisher's been great in the playoffs since the lock-out.
It was Beauchemin - Niedermayer and O'Donnell - Pronger.

Fisher was definitely a 2nd line centre those playoffs. Schaefer and Comrie weren't exactly lighting it up, not much help for Fisher.

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02-07-2012, 01:02 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by AWJ View Post
The series is becoming pretty foggy for me (I can't believe it's been so long) but as I remember our top-line was shut-down by probably the best defence pairing of the 21st century in Pronger-Neidermayer (maybe rivalled by Lidstrom-Rafalski, Weber-Suter). Sure, Fisher and Alfredsson still had to contend with Beauchemin, but if it had been Alfie-Fisher vs Pronger-Neidermayer and Spezza-Heatley against Beauchemin-X, we would have seen Heatley-Spezza put up far better numbers.
The main thing was that the Sami Pahlsson checking line Spezza had to play against got away with murder in all 5 games. It looked like 1994 with all the uncalled hooking, slashing and interference.

The officiating in general in that series was woefully one-sided. A few examples:
The brutal, obvious Pronger elbow wasn't even called in game. He got absolutely nothing for that until the lame 1 game suspension (despite having just committed a headshot the series prior).
In game 3 on the Alfie goal that ended up being reviewed, Getzlaf had his stick raised holding Alfie's arms up at shoulder height: no call on that either. The refs also waved it off immediately, despite the complete lack of any kicking motion whatsoever.

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02-07-2012, 01:05 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by arglebargle View Post
The main thing was that the Sami Pahlsson checking line Spezza had to play against got away with murder in all 5 games. It looked like 1994 with all the uncalled hooking, slashing and interference.

The officiating in general in that series was woefully one-sided. A few examples:
The brutal, obvious Pronger elbow wasn't even called in game. He got absolutely nothing for that until the lame 1 game suspension (despite having just committed a headshot the series prior).
In game 3 on the Alfie goal that ended up being reviewed, Getzlaf had his stick raised holding Alfie's arms up at shoulder height: no call on that either. The refs also waved it off immediately, despite the complete lack of any kicking motion whatsoever.
That made me rage. Consecutive rounds he throws an elbow to the head of another player and all he got was one game combined.

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02-07-2012, 01:15 AM
  #41
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It's actually kind of hilarious how badly Bob Murray has managed that team since the cup win

The Pronger trade was awful, the Gardiner and Lupul for a guy they let walk that summer trade...lmao

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02-07-2012, 01:51 AM
  #42
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Yes! People are finally getting it.

Our offense goes nowhere unless Michalek is the 3rd or 4th best player on it. Which means that there are clearly 1 or 2 gigantic holes up front after Alfie retires (and NO, they ain't gonna be filled by Andre "****ing" Petersson or Mike "RU kidding me with this ****?" Hoffman).

1/2 = Spezza
1/2 = ???
3/4 = ???
3/4 = Michalek
5-12 = Foligno, Greening, Turris, Smith, Condra, Regin, Neil, Daugavins, Butler, etc

In short, we need a player or two who look a hell of a lot more like Spezza than Michalek/Foligno/Greening/Smith/Neil/Zibanejad/Noeson/etc.

So I guess this means we won't be seeing anymore Tuomu Ruutu requests... bullocks, just checked our Trade thread and lots of proposals for Ruutu. It's not like don't already have a bunch of "Tuomu Ruutu's" coming of out of ***** people; we don't need anymore.

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02-07-2012, 01:56 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Yes! People are finally getting it.

Our offense goes nowhere unless Michalek is the 3rd or 4th best player on it. Which means that there are clearly 1 or 2 gigantic holes up front after Alfie retires (and NO, they ain't gonna be filled by Andre "****ing" Petersson or Mike "RU kidding me with this ****?" Hoffman).

1/2 = Spezza
1/2 = ???
3/4 = ???
3/4 = Michalek
5-12 = Foligno, Greening, Turris, Smith, Condra, Regin, Neil, Daugavins, Butler, etc

In short, we need a player or two who look a hell of a lot more like Spezza than Michalek/Foligno/Greening/Smith/Neil/Zibanejad/Noeson/etc.

So I guess this means we won't be seeing anymore Tuomu Ruutu requests... bullocks, just checked our Trade thread and lots of proposals for Ruutu. It's not like don't already have a bunch of "Tuomu Ruutu's" coming of out of ***** people; we don't need anymore.
So what you're saying is... Yakupov

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02-07-2012, 09:49 AM
  #44
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It's actually kind of hilarious how badly Bob Murray has managed that team since the cup win

The Pronger trade was awful, the Gardiner and Lupul for a guy they let walk that summer trade...lmao
Oh, a team that was in the Final that year has struggled since?? Their GM must suck!!

Bob Murrays take on the Pronger deal.... Sure Pronger had solid years left but he tried to move forward and got a solid return for him...

"At some point in time, this organization is going to be without Scotty and now Chris. Some day neither one of them were going to be there. It’s time we started preparing for that. It was time for us to move forward and that was what I was doing."
-- Ducks GM Bob Murray on his reasoning for dealing Chris Pronger

The Lupul trade got them Beauchemin(who has signed a deal to stay there) and they gave up Lupul and Gardiner... That equates to a player and a prospect(not a crazy overpayment)

Theyve also got a very solid core in Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan, Fowler, Hiller(alot of teams would take that core). Solid 2nd tier players in Cogliano, Sbisa. Theyve also got Emerson Etem and Devante Smith-Pelley on the way...

I would say the future is bright for the Ducks and theyve got a cup to go with it.

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02-07-2012, 09:53 AM
  #45
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Michalek sucks. We should have traded him for Ryan while he was scoring all those goals.

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02-07-2012, 10:33 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Philadelphia Collins View Post
It's actually kind of hilarious how badly Bob Murray has managed that team since the cup win

The Pronger trade was awful, the Gardiner and Lupul for a guy they let walk that summer trade...lmao
??? wasn't it Gardiner and Lupul for Beauchemin? If so, they just resigned him.

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02-07-2012, 10:37 AM
  #47
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Michalek isn't the new Fisher, he's the old Michalek.

I don't know why people are surprised that he didn't keep up his 50 goal pace. He is what he is - he tends to hit 20 goals without much problem, but maxes out at about 25. He could have a good year where he ends up with 30-40 but its not going to be a consistent trend or anything.

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02-07-2012, 10:53 AM
  #48
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Fisher was the perfect 3rd line center. He could never carry a line offensively as a center and imo if the sens had a center that could push him down the chart they would have won a cup. He is a poor man's patrice bergeron not "kesler lite". The sens weren't called a one line team for nothing.

Back on topic: Michalek is streaky as hell but he is a top 6 foward, and I doubt the sens will be able to replace him in the next 2 years.


Last edited by Magix: 02-07-2012 at 11:00 AM.
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02-07-2012, 11:52 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Yes! People are finally getting it.

Our offense goes nowhere unless Michalek is the 3rd or 4th best player on it. Which means that there are clearly 1 or 2 gigantic holes up front after Alfie retires (and NO, they ain't gonna be filled by Andre "****ing" Petersson or Mike "RU kidding me with this ****?" Hoffman).

1/2 = Spezza
1/2 = ???
3/4 = ???
3/4 = Michalek
5-12 = Foligno, Greening, Turris, Smith, Condra, Regin, Neil, Daugavins, Butler, etc

In short, we need a player or two who look a hell of a lot more like Spezza than Michalek/Foligno/Greening/Smith/Neil/Zibanejad/Noeson/etc.

So I guess this means we won't be seeing anymore Tuomu Ruutu requests... bullocks, just checked our Trade thread and lots of proposals for Ruutu. It's not like don't already have a bunch of "Tuomu Ruutu's" coming of out of ***** people; we don't need anymore.
Well to get what you are advocating it will likely cost our 1st & one or two of our best prospects (Silfverberg, Zibanejad or Stone) & likely a good roster player (Foligno, Greening). I'm not necessarily against it, but it will be very expensive. I also assume you are talking about a Parise, Ryan, Nash or Carter type player? You did mention Hemsky who should be a tad less expensive but he comes with his own issues & would cost I assume our 1st or a top prospect as part of the package.

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02-07-2012, 01:24 PM
  #50
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Fisher is arguably the 1st line centre on the 5th place team in the entire NHL. He leads all forwards on his team in TOI/G, is tied for 1st in goals, is 3rd in points despite missing some games, plays with the team's #1 winger, and takes the most faceoffs.

As for the Fisher/Kesler comparison, Fisher has 1G, 4A less than Kesler this year (in 2GP less).

Yes he certainly is at least a 2nd line centre.

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