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Mike Richards playing injured ? [All Posts re: the Mike Richards Debate Go in Here]

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Old
02-06-2012, 06:51 PM
  #101
damacles1156
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People are that upset, that Simmer gets feed easy tap in's by a world class Puck handler in Giroux ?

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02-06-2012, 06:56 PM
  #102
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It's not just the Richards trade, it's the Penner trade, the Cammalleri trade. Everything Lombardi has done in the past 1-2 years has really pissed me off. Halpern, Moulson, Purcell......etc.......

He hasn't made a move recently I have liked and it sucks seeing all his mistakes succeed elsewhere or fail in LA.

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02-06-2012, 07:05 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
People are that upset, that Simmer gets feed easy tap in's by a world class Puck handler in Giroux ?
Wait, I thought Richards was supposed to be a world class puck handler and make other players better...? Let's ask Dustin and Jarrett....

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02-06-2012, 07:22 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
It's not just the Richards trade, it's the Penner trade, the Cammalleri trade. Everything Lombardi has done in the past 1-2 years has really pissed me off. Halpern, Moulson, Purcell......etc.......

He hasn't made a move recently I have liked and it sucks seeing all his mistakes succeed elsewhere or fail in LA.
The issues are both separate and related all at once. Just because they lit things up elsewhere doesn't mean it would have worked here, but at the same time this is part of the problem with this organization right now, players are not producing to their potential here, why? Well, the answer isn't entirely the players. The way our team is set up, it seems very few players can excel here playing the type of hockey we do. It really speaks volumes about a player like Kopitar who does it all, is able to produce at a decent rate, but also be out there in every single situation with this team under this system, but even his stats are suffering terribly. Literally no one on the team is performing well offensively. Things need to change. You can't point the finger at every single player on the team.

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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Wait, I thought Richards was supposed to be a world class puck handler and make other players better...? Let's ask Dustin and Jarrett....
I thought Kopitar was supposed to be too, let's ask Dustin and Justin... There is more wrong with the team than just individual production. You can't look at point totals and say "those are low, therefore the players suck".

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02-06-2012, 07:22 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Wait, I thought Richards was supposed to be a world class puck handler and make other players better...? Let's ask Dustin and Jarrett....
I don't think anyone claimned Richards makes other players better. I sure didn't, Very few players actaully make that happen in the league.

Richards is a better Center than any King not named Kopitar though.

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02-06-2012, 07:35 PM
  #106
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http://lakingsinsider.com/2012/02/06...ed/#more-20349

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SUTTER: “I think he [Richards] played hard in St. Louis, which was a tough game to play in. He played hard, and then the other night (in Carolina) he did a really good job for us. Other than that, I’m not looking too far back. He’s got his work cut out tomorrow, with Vinny (Lecavalier) and (Steven) Stamkos, or whoever he’s against. We know that.

“He’s a real honest player. He shows up 99 percent of the time. If you’re just measuring it with stats, well, his wingers have to got to score. It doesn’t matter where he’s been. He’s been a 20-some goal scorer, and that’s what he’s going to do again. But a lot of his productivity has been in making plays, and it still is. In some situations you say, `Well, he should have shot,’’ but that’s not where he normally shoots. He’s looking to make a play, and he’s making it but he needs guys to finish for him. I said, right from day one, if you look at it on paper, you’ve got to like our centermen. You can critique all you want, but it’s hard not to like those young guys. They’re going to get better, and they’ve got something to offer now.’’

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02-06-2012, 07:57 PM
  #107
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For the last time. Richards did not play with Carcillo, Powe and Nodl majority of the time. I don't know where the **** that information comes from. Are you saying that Richards centered the 4th line cause that is where those players played on Philly. and Nodl is a center.

Having seen all of his games, I can tell you that Nodl was the winger he spent the most time with last year, for most of the games. . Carcillo was the other wing some games, JVR briefly, Zherdeve a hand ful of games (and should have been more, he was very good with Ricahrds, but Lavvy didn't like Zherdev and he was benched for a large part of the season on and off)
Versteeg came in the deadline trade and played wing from that point thru the end of the Boston series.
You have to understand that last Oct in training camp, Lavvy made Richards 'my shutdown center, offense will not be his first priority'
And that is the job he had al l year, his first and primary priority was to shut down the top lines on the other team, which is what he does best.
And he did it very well, I've seen him win games just by keeping the top line off the score board.
I know some Kings fans are frustrated by his lack of scoring and he has never had a slump of this length in his entire career, but he will rebound.
And the best part of MR is what he does in the playoffs, he's amazing...he elevates his game to a whle other level.
And again, some of you keep forgetting that Simmonds is playing in Lavvy's agressive offense systesm and spending a lot of time with Giroux and Jagr, Richards isn't. TM''s system is about as far in the other directoin as you can get.
I like Simmoinds, he's all heart and hustle, but he could break a leg this week and he wouldn't be missed. Pronger, Giroux, Briere, Jagr all went down and the Flyers kept winning. It's the system that does that and their rookie corp and depth.
MR went down Dec 1 and the Kings dropped 5 in a row and fell apart, winning only 2 in the 9 he was out.
If you can't see by now that what he brings in some many areas of the game is so much more valuable that goals...you aren't a student of the game.

The head injury did affect his play and Stoll and Penner or the lack of wingers haven't helped.

There is a reason he's won championships every level he's played at (and the only player in he NHL to do that (Calder, Memorial Cups, World Juniors and olympic gold and took his team within 2 of the Cup), he's about as complete a player as you'll find, a terrific leader and 100% about his team and esp. defending them on the ice.

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02-06-2012, 08:03 PM
  #108
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Nicely put Deeshamrock !!

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02-07-2012, 07:02 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Richards is playing awful. Simmonds is now an emerging star and Schenn has 4 goals now.

This deal is awful. Another blunder by Lombardi. He hasn't made a good deal since the POS-Williams deal.

I would gladly take back Teubert, a 1st, Schenn, Simmonds and a 2nd and give back Penner, Richards and 10 million.

Flyers fan here and I have to admit to being really upset when the flyers dealt Richards to the kings. Richards was my favorite flyer and thought he was going to be a life-long flyer. I did think that the Carter deal was needed but it took me about week to get the look of astonishment off my face after seeing the richards deal. Althought Richards hadnt developed into the consisitent offensive player I thought he would be after an 80 point season a few years ago, I would have never predicted in a million years that he would be traded away since his intangibles were just as valuable as his points.

As for the trade, I had read the hype on schenn and seen the type of player simmonds was so i thought that it potentially could be equal value for richards at the very best. But after watching the flyers and kings so far this season i have to admit to being dead wrong about this trade. The deal favors the flyers and I never thought that was going to be the case. Schenn so glimpses of being a phenomonal player, much more then richards did at 20 years old in my opinion, so we will see what happens down the road with that. Simmonds is going to be a 20-25 goal scorer that is a pain in the butt for opponents to play against for the next decade.

As for Richards, in my opinion, something is missing. I cant put my finger on it but he just isnt the same player he was a few years ago. I dont know if he is always injured or if there are off ice issues, like the ones always reported. But he had an 80 point season in 08-09 and was a finalist for the selke trophy. He hasnt had more then 66 points since and he might not break 45-50 this season. But his points totals are the least of the issues in my opinion, he is far less physical then he use to be, his hit totals has gone down every year along with his points. I feel like when he is physical the rest of his game follows suit. Maybe it was the hit on Booth a few years ago that is always in the back of his mind when he is out there on the ice?

I wish I had a better reason for richards game going down but I just cant come up with anything substantial. But I do hope that he finds his game and resumes what i thought was going to be a very successful career. I wish him success in every game, well, except when he plays the flyers...

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02-07-2012, 10:00 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
The Doughty that has 2g, 14a in his last 22gp +7 (a 7g, 52a, +26 pace over a full season)?
Those stats aren't bad, that would be considering he does make it to 60 some points this year. I expect more from someone making the amount he does now though. Hopefully this doesn't turn into a Brian Campbell scenario...

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02-07-2012, 11:08 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Reaper1097 View Post
Flyers fan here and I have to admit to being really upset when the flyers dealt Richards to the kings. Richards was my favorite flyer and thought he was going to be a life-long flyer. I did think that the Carter deal was needed but it took me about week to get the look of astonishment off my face after seeing the richards deal. Althought Richards hadnt developed into the consisitent offensive player I thought he would be after an 80 point season a few years ago, I would have never predicted in a million years that he would be traded away since his intangibles were just as valuable as his points.

As for the trade, I had read the hype on schenn and seen the type of player simmonds was so i thought that it potentially could be equal value for richards at the very best. But after watching the flyers and kings so far this season i have to admit to being dead wrong about this trade. The deal favors the flyers and I never thought that was going to be the case. Schenn so glimpses of being a phenomonal player, much more then richards did at 20 years old in my opinion, so we will see what happens down the road with that. Simmonds is going to be a 20-25 goal scorer that is a pain in the butt for opponents to play against for the next decade.

As for Richards, in my opinion, something is missing. I cant put my finger on it but he just isnt the same player he was a few years ago. I dont know if he is always injured or if there are off ice issues, like the ones always reported. But he had an 80 point season in 08-09 and was a finalist for the selke trophy. He hasnt had more then 66 points since and he might not break 45-50 this season. But his points totals are the least of the issues in my opinion, he is far less physical then he use to be, his hit totals has gone down every year along with his points. I feel like when he is physical the rest of his game follows suit. Maybe it was the hit on Booth a few years ago that is always in the back of his mind when he is out there on the ice?

I wish I had a better reason for richards game going down but I just cant come up with anything substantial. But I do hope that he finds his game and resumes what i thought was going to be a very successful career. I wish him success in every game, well, except when he plays the flyers...
This will not sit well with the purple colored glasses crowd...

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02-07-2012, 12:07 PM
  #112
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This will not sit well with the purple colored glasses crowd...

At least you'll have more negative speculation about the Kings to enjoy. So, there's that for consolation.

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02-07-2012, 12:09 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by deeshamrock View Post
Having seen all of his games, I can tell you that Nodl was the winger he spent the most time with last year, for most of the games. . Carcillo was the other wing some games, JVR briefly, Zherdeve a hand ful of games (and should have been more, he was very good with Ricahrds, but Lavvy didn't like Zherdev and he was benched for a large part of the season on and off)
Versteeg came in the deadline trade and played wing from that point thru the end of the Boston series.
You have to understand that last Oct in training camp, Lavvy made Richards 'my shutdown center, offense will not be his first priority'
And that is the job he had al l year, his first and primary priority was to shut down the top lines on the other team, which is what he does best.
And he did it very well, I've seen him win games just by keeping the top line off the score board.
I know some Kings fans are frustrated by his lack of scoring and he has never had a slump of this length in his entire career, but he will rebound.
And the best part of MR is what he does in the playoffs, he's amazing...he elevates his game to a whle other level.
And again, some of you keep forgetting that Simmonds is playing in Lavvy's agressive offense systesm and spending a lot of time with Giroux and Jagr, Richards isn't. TM''s system is about as far in the other directoin as you can get.
I like Simmoinds, he's all heart and hustle, but he could break a leg this week and he wouldn't be missed. Pronger, Giroux, Briere, Jagr all went down and the Flyers kept winning. It's the system that does that and their rookie corp and depth.
MR went down Dec 1 and the Kings dropped 5 in a row and fell apart, winning only 2 in the 9 he was out.
If you can't see by now that what he brings in some many areas of the game is so much more valuable that goals...you aren't a student of the game.

The head injury did affect his play and Stoll and Penner or the lack of wingers haven't helped.

There is a reason he's won championships every level he's played at (and the only player in he NHL to do that (Calder, Memorial Cups, World Juniors and olympic gold and took his team within 2 of the Cup), he's about as complete a player as you'll find, a terrific leader and 100% about his team and esp. defending them on the ice.
Thanks for the info!

So basically to my point, JU is wrong, and Richards did not play a majority of his games with Powe and Carcillo. He played a lot with Nodl, and the other wing was a mixture of guys like Zherdev, JVR, and Versteeg.

That's a HUGE difference from playing with Nodl and CARCILLO for 82 games.

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02-07-2012, 12:36 PM
  #114
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Thanks for the info!

So basically to my point, JU is wrong, and Richards did not play a majority of his games with Powe and Carcillo. He played a lot with Nodl, and the other wing was a mixture of guys like Zherdev, JVR, and Versteeg.

That's a HUGE difference from playing with Nodl and CARCILLO for 82 games.
Go back and read my posts....I said exactly that, I said he played with guys like Carcillo, Powe and Nodl and then posted articles where he played with Zherdev....

Either way, none of those guys are that different than Stoll and Penner...1 is out of the NHL and the other 3 are 4th liners on 3 different teams.

Just google Mike Richards linemates and you will see yourself or click on my links....


Last edited by Johnny Utah: 02-07-2012 at 12:40 PM. Reason: keep that first thing out of it please
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02-07-2012, 01:45 PM
  #115
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02-07-2012, 03:39 PM
  #116
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Recently registered Flyers-Kings fan here. I've been a lurker for quite some time and decided to sign up when I came across this topic.
I've had the good fortune of seeing Mike Richards play live, since his Kitchener Rangers days up through his years as a Flyer and now as a King.
Now I'm no expert and certainly will not pretend to be, so take my theory for what it's worth.

Ever since his time with the Rangers Richards was a very special player. He could swing the momentum of a game with one hit, one defensive play or one goal. Case in point, the hit on David Krejci in 09-10 which turned the entire series around. Richards has incredible hockey sense, and is definitely one of the top 3 best defensive fowards I have seen in the past decade. At the same time however, he was never an elite scorer, playmaker, skater or any of those things that standout to untrained eye. The problem is, when Richards stops doing the little things that go unnoticed, he basically becomes a non-factor, especially because he lacks high end talent in many facets of the game. A Semin or Ovechkin type of player may play a horrible game, but he still puts up a couple points while doing so.
What many of you saw through the first 20 or so games of this season, was really only a shadow of Richards from 2008-09. The following year he was a big factor in the playoff run, but was not the best Flyer. I would say that would be a toss-up between Briere, Pronger and Giroux. He's declined since then, and I'm not sure if it's the combination of receiving a huge contract and becoming too comfortable, injuries, partying or what.

If it's either the 1st or 3rd, he can bounceback in a big way. But the biggest worry for me is that Richards lacks the strength to be able to overcome so many injuries. I've met him in person, and he is about 5'10, 185 at the most. With the amount of hits he has layed, and received, I would say his body is hurting at this point of his career. Certainly means he won't be as great of a factor, when he is not playing the way he needs to. Still, the trade is basically even right now. For as good as Simmond's starts are, he really isn't playing extraordinary, he's just benefitting from PP time and an offensive style of play. Schenn has been better of late, and hopefully is just scratching the surface in his potential.

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02-07-2012, 03:50 PM
  #117
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That's what bothers me. Richards has never been in shape. We traded a lanky and strong 6'2" 209 pound Simmonds and a 6'0" 196 pound Schenn for a 5'10" 185 pound player, who for some reason now, if he isn't scoring or throwing big hits, just isn't making a difference.

Reaper1097 and PJStock are both Flyer fans echoing my sentiments exactly. For some reason, he isn't the player he used to be and that is troubling considering his age, his size and his contract.

Considering the age, size and contract of the kids we gave up...it is even more unsettling. Simmonds and Schenn are proving they are on the upside of there career and for some reason Richards, even at 26-27, is already looking to be on the downside.

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02-07-2012, 04:02 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
That's what bothers me. Richards has never been in shape. We traded a lanky and strong 6'2" 209 pound Simmonds and a 6'0" 196 pound Schenn for a 5'10" 185 pound player, who for some reason now, if he isn't scoring or throwing big hits, just isn't making a difference.

Reaper1097 and PJStock are both Flyer fans echoing my sentiments exactly. For some reason, he isn't the player he used to be and that is troubling considering his age, his size and his contract.

Considering the age, size and contract of the kids we gave up...it is even more unsettling. Simmonds and Schenn are proving they are on the upside of there career and for some reason Richards, even at 26-27, is already looking to be on the downside.
Agree completely. By the time Richards is 28 or 29, his remaining contract will be a huge anchor tied to the neck of the next Kings GM. Meanwhile, Schenn and Simmonds will be in their prime and playing lights out in Philly. Thanks Deano.

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02-07-2012, 04:08 PM
  #119
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I am convinced that if Lombardi gets canned it is because of the Richards and Penner deals.

If you Richards was really a game changer the Kings offensive would be better and the coach wouldn't have been fired....this deal was supposed to make us better, not worse...same with Penner....gave up a ton of assets and essentially set us back...

Now Manchester, minus Muzzin, Hickey and Deslauries is devoid of any NHL talent...our chips to bargain with are gone and there is not one forward ready to step in and contribute. There is also a lack of size of the wing and the thing that set the Kings apart the past couple years was big forwards cycling and now with Simmonds, Zeus, and Poni gone that element of success is gone as well.

I would trade Richards and Penner for Schenn, Simmonds, a 2nd rounder, Teubert and a 1st rounder and just re-signed Handzus in a HEARTBEAT.

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02-07-2012, 04:17 PM
  #120
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I am convinced that if Lombardi gets canned it is because of the Richards and Penner deals.

If you Richards was really a game changer the Kings offensive would be better and the coach wouldn't have been fired....this deal was supposed to make us better, not worse...same with Penner....gave up a ton of assets and essentially set us back...

Now Manchester, minus Muzzin, Hickey and Deslauries is devoid of any NHL talent...our chips to bargain with are gone and there is not one forward ready to step in and contribute. There is also a lack of size of the wing and the thing that set the Kings apart the past couple years was big forwards cycling and now with Simmonds, Zeus, and Poni gone that element of success is gone as well.

I would trade Richards and Penner for Schenn, Simmonds, a 2nd rounder, Teubert and a 1st rounder and just re-signed Handzus in a HEARTBEAT.
To be fair though, I think Richards is still a 55-65 point player with excellent two way sense. Even when he is not hitting people, or making big plays, the guy is easily a
2nd or 3rd center on contending teams. If not worth his contract, then at least close to it. And who knows, he might rebound big time next year with a better offseason training regime.

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02-07-2012, 04:24 PM
  #121
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Better off season training regime?

This is his 7th NHL season and he still hasn't figured it out?

If my job was only to be in shape and play hockey while making millions I would hire the best trainer in the world. Right now I am a working professional working a 9am to 6pm job and still have a trainer and make about 1% of what Richards does.

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02-07-2012, 04:34 PM
  #122
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Perhaps better as in different (focusing on different parts of the training compared to what he did when he was younger?).

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02-07-2012, 04:38 PM
  #123
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Wonder what the people who bash the Richards trade said when it was made? Not going to look that far back

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02-07-2012, 04:53 PM
  #124
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SFKingshomer. Go ahead. I have been against it from the beginning. The dudes on here that know me know that as well. I was hesitant and sketical from the beginning, now I am just pissed and frustrated.

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02-07-2012, 05:09 PM
  #125
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I wasn't too pleased with the Richards trade right from the very beginning (I've always considered him to be one of the more overrated players in the league). I was willing to reserve judgement though.

Right NOW: Simmonds + Schenn > Richards

And it's not even about stats. You can watch the games and see how much impact each player has on the ice.

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