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Old
02-07-2012, 08:16 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Flyers record: 30-16-6
Bruins record on this date last year: 30-16-7

Flyers have no chance. Most Cup champions win the President's trophy and don't have any issues throughout the season, right?
those identical records are pretty misleading.

I don't ever remember BOS having constant defensive breakdowns lead by a defenseman named Matt Carle. I also remember BOS having something pretty good going for them in net. They also didnt lose their best defenseman for the rest of the season/playoffs.

The Flyers a winning because they can outscore opponents and we all know run & gun hockey doesnt work in the playoffs.

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02-07-2012, 08:43 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
those identical records are pretty misleading.

I don't ever remember BOS having constant defensive breakdowns lead by a defenseman named Matt Carle. I also remember BOS having something pretty good going for them in net. They also didnt lose their best defenseman for the rest of the season/playoffs.

The Flyers a winning because they can outscore opponents and we all know run & gun hockey doesnt work in the playoffs.
And yet the Flyers keep winning. Last year the Flyers looked like Cup contenders for most of the season. They won the Atlantic and looked pretty good doing it. Yet they got absolutely crushed in the playoffs by the Bruins, who not only finished below them in the standings, but for most of the year, didn't look like the team they were in the playoffs (not that they were bad, but that they just didn't look like a team people would call Cup champions). See what I'm getting at here? Teams struggle throughout the year in a multitude of ways. Some can't score. Some can't stop a puck. Some get riddled with injuries. Some deal with all at different times, some at the same time. I'm not saying that means the Flyers ARE going to win, but they certainly aren't counted out. How soon we forget 2010. Count them out when they are down in the playoffs or out of contention for the playoffs. That makes sense. But to count them out now is silly.

Just curious, who is a Cup contender this year? Most teams have had their struggles as far as I can tell.

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02-07-2012, 08:46 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
And yet the Flyers keep winning. Last year the Flyers looked like Cup contenders for most of the season. They won the Atlantic and looked pretty good doing it. Yet they got absolutely crushed in the playoffs by the Bruins, who not only finished below them in the standings, but for most of the year, didn't look like the team they were in the playoffs (not that they were bad, but that they just didn't look like a team people would call Cup champions). See what I'm getting at here? Teams struggle throughout the year in a multitude of ways. Some can't score. Some can't stop a puck. Some get riddled with injuries. Some deal with all at different times, some at the same time. I'm not saying that means the Flyers ARE going to win, but they certainly aren't counted out. How soon we forget 2010. Count them out when they are down in the playoffs or out of contention for the playoffs. That makes sense. But to count them out now is silly.

Just curious, who is a Cup contender this year? Most teams have had their struggles as far as I can tell.
Did you even watch the second half of the season? The Flyers were most certainly not a good hockey team.

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02-07-2012, 08:59 AM
  #79
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Did you even watch the second half of the season? The Flyers were most certainly not a good hockey team.
Yea good point. When one half of the season is excellent and the second half isn't, you only look at the bad half. Ignore the good half. Ignore the season as a whole. Bad always outweighs good. The facts that they finished tops in the conference for goals for and top half for goals against and finished third in the conference and won the Atantic are irrelevant. Those are not the markings of a good hockey team. This year's team is always terrible. I can't believe we are going to have to suffer through another year of competing for the division title and going to the playoffs. I wish the Flyers were like those other great teams that win every single game.

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02-07-2012, 09:03 AM
  #80
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They weren't good in the 2nd half, but I'd say they ran out of gas before saying they were a bad team. They were better than most teams who lose in the Finals the year before. Part of that has to do with some of those teams not belonging in the Finals to start with.

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02-07-2012, 09:09 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Yea good point. When one half of the season is excellent and the second half isn't, you only look at the bad half. Ignore the good half. Ignore the season as a whole. Bad always outweighs good. The facts that they finished tops in the conference for goals for and top half for goals against and finished third in the conference and won the Atantic are irrelevant. Those are not the markings of a good hockey team. This year's team is always terrible. I can't believe we are going to have to suffer through another year of competing for the division title and going to the playoffs. I wish the Flyers were like those other great teams that win every single game.
no, you look at the more recent games and they were mediocre the whole 2nd half of the season. If you reversed it, I'd be a lot more excited about a team that struggled the first half and then completely dominated the 2nd half

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02-07-2012, 09:13 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
no, you look at the more recent games and they were mediocre the whole 2nd half of the season. If you reversed it, I'd be a lot more excited about a team that struggled the first half and then completely dominated the 2nd half
So if Bryz is lights out for the next 20 games, the rest of his season is forgotten?

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02-07-2012, 09:22 AM
  #83
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So if Bryz is lights out for the next 20 games, the rest of his season is forgotten?
If he does well in the playoffs, I'd forget it.

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02-07-2012, 09:52 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Yea good point. When one half of the season is excellent and the second half isn't, you only look at the bad half. Ignore the good half. Ignore the season as a whole. Bad always outweighs good. The facts that they finished tops in the conference for goals for and top half for goals against and finished third in the conference and won the Atantic are irrelevant. Those are not the markings of a good hockey team. This year's team is always terrible. I can't believe we are going to have to suffer through another year of competing for the division title and going to the playoffs. I wish the Flyers were like those other great teams that win every single game.
Looks like someone passed Hyperbole 101. Pump the breaks a bit, skippy. Bottom line is that the Flyers team you saw in the second half of last season was not a good one. They appeared disjointed, unmotivated, and exhausted. What does first half dominance matter when you're pooping the bed down the stretch?

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02-07-2012, 10:16 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
no, you look at the more recent games and they were mediocre the whole 2nd half of the season. If you reversed it, I'd be a lot more excited about a team that struggled the first half and then completely dominated the 2nd half
Which is exactly the problem with pronouncing the season dead in February.

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02-07-2012, 11:35 AM
  #86
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LOL at the people who can't recognize that there are SEVERAL better teams not only within this division, but the conference, and the league.

If trading Carle or not is your idea of throwing away the season, then I'm glad you aren't the GM.

EVERYONE on here saying trade Carle has said so, but then take the return and turn it into other D-men, d-men that actually know their goalie on a first name basis, d-men that actually have seen the blue paint, and their own zone.

Stop acting like premadonna's and shooting optimism into your veins and be a realist. This team is what it is. It has defensive problems, and a player that would command a good return on its roster that will not be here next year.

It's that simple, if you are confident you can replace Carle at the deadline with a defensive defenseman for a less price then what you get for Carle, but don't care to sign him, does that not ENHANCE the team's ability to compete?

It does in my books. Trade him, turn his return into someone else, have a little left over. Bonus.

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02-07-2012, 11:42 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
Which is exactly the problem with pronouncing the season dead in February.
I never pronounced the season dead. I said that this team has had defensive problems since the get go and it seems like nothing has changed so far and if things continue this way, this team isnt going to make much noise come playoff time

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02-07-2012, 11:46 AM
  #88
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I never pronounced the season dead. I said that this team has had defensive problems since the get go and it seems like nothing has changed so far and if things continue this way, this team isnt going to make much noise come playoff time
Yep, and "flipping the switch" wont do **** in this case. Problems since September havent been fixed.

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02-07-2012, 11:49 AM
  #89
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LOL at the people who can't recognize that there are SEVERAL better teams not only within this division, but the conference, and the league.

If trading Carle or not is your idea of throwing away the season, then I'm glad you aren't the GM.

EVERYONE on here saying trade Carle has said so, but then take the return and turn it into other D-men, d-men that actually know their goalie on a first name basis, d-men that actually have seen the blue paint, and their own zone.

Stop acting like premadonna's and shooting optimism into your veins and be a realist. This team is what it is. It has defensive problems, and a player that would command a good return on its roster that will not be here next year.

It's that simple, if you are confident you can replace Carle at the deadline with a defensive defenseman for a less price then what you get for Carle, but don't care to sign him, does that not ENHANCE the team's ability to compete?

It does in my books. Trade him, turn his return into someone else, have a little left over. Bonus.
I agree. Holmgren's bottom line is improving this club, and every signing / extension makes this year's trade deadline a huge seller's market for defensemen. If Carle can attract a 1st or a superior prospect, do it, and then flip lesser value for a replacement like Gill going into the playoffs.

But I would be against dealing Carle for the sake of just getting anything. It has to be a significant win for Holmgren, or no deal.

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02-07-2012, 11:58 AM
  #90
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I agree. Holmgren's bottom line is improving this club, and every signing / extension makes this year's trade deadline a huge seller's market for defensemen. If Carle can attract a 1st or a superior prospect, do it, and then flip lesser value for a replacement like Gill going into the playoffs.

But I would be against dealing Carle for the sake of just getting anything. It has to be a significant win for Holmgren, or no deal.
I agree, but I just dont see Homer trading him

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02-07-2012, 12:03 PM
  #91
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I agree, but I just dont see Homer trading him
Fair enough, I am not holding my breath, either. But it would be a failure on Holmgren's part to not assess Carle's value among the other GMs ... in a non-waiving kind of way.

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02-07-2012, 12:20 PM
  #92
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I agree. Holmgren's bottom line is improving this club, and every signing / extension makes this year's trade deadline a huge seller's market for defensemen. If Carle can attract a 1st or a superior prospect, do it, and then flip lesser value for a replacement like Gill going into the playoffs.

But I would be against dealing Carle for the sake of just getting anything. It has to be a significant win for Holmgren, or no deal.
Carle can be spectacularly bad when he plays like he did against NYR, but despite that he is a top four guy. With Pronger out, if we're trading Carle we're gonna need to replace him with one of those if we're being serious about this season.

I wanted to trade Carle last summer, and earlier on in the season I wouldn't have been opposed to one of those three-way trades that never happen, which could turn Carle and some other guy, say Nödl, into two solid defenders. After Pronger's injury though, things have become more complicated.

That said though, I don't think any player is untradeable. If some GM is really, really desperate for a puckmoving dman, but misses out on the few that are out there and comes knocking on Homer's door... I could live with it.

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02-07-2012, 02:11 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amateur Hour View Post
Looks like someone passed Hyperbole 101. Pump the breaks a bit, skippy. Bottom line is that the Flyers team you saw in the second half of last season was not a good one. They appeared disjointed, unmotivated, and exhausted. What does first half dominance matter when you're pooping the bed down the stretch?
First half dominance doesn't matter if you blow it in the end, but that doesn't mean that a rocky (fourth in the East...) start means they are doomed.

What it seems like you are saying is that a team is only as good as their last X number of games. It has nothing to do with the team itself, it is how they are playing. Correct? So right now they are not contenders, but in a month if they go on a tear they might be? Or is it that you just don't think this team has what it takes regardless of how they are playing? If that is the case, I agree that if they stand pat they are not going anywhere, but if they make some smart moves at the deadline, it is a completely different story. This team right now doesn't have all the pieces, but with some added defense on the blueline and even at the forward positions they could be.

I don't know how I would feel about dealing Carle but I think they need to add AT LEAST one veteran defender and a veteran winger in order to make a run. If they do that I see no reason why they aren't at least competing to come out of the East. Not necessarily that they will win if these things happen, but they certainly shouldn't be counted out at this point.

Sorry if this post is all over the map. Brain fried from school.

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02-07-2012, 05:00 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by ORYX View Post
LOL at the people who can't recognize that there are SEVERAL better teams not only within this division, but the conference, and the league.

If trading Carle or not is your idea of throwing away the season, then I'm glad you aren't the GM.

EVERYONE on here saying trade Carle has said so, but then take the return and turn it into other D-men, d-men that actually know their goalie on a first name basis, d-men that actually have seen the blue paint, and their own zone.

Stop acting like premadonna's and shooting optimism into your veins and be a realist. This team is what it is. It has defensive problems, and a player that would command a good return on its roster that will not be here next year.

It's that simple, if you are confident you can replace Carle at the deadline with a defensive defenseman for a less price then what you get for Carle, but don't care to sign him, does that not ENHANCE the team's ability to compete?

It does in my books. Trade him, turn his return into someone else, have a little left over. Bonus.
That's all fine and dandy, but who do you replace Carle with? Everyone seems to think that defensemen can easily be acquired and that signing a replacement isn't going to be a problem. Unfortunately, with the exception being Suter, Carle is probably the second best defenseman available in free agency this year. That's the reality of it. As for Suter, chances are he'll probably end up in one of his uncle's old haunts. Chicago has the cap space this off season to sign him and they probably will.

The best thing the Flyers can do is try to acquire a defenseman on the outs with his current club. As much as people hate the idea of Schenn in Toronto, it's probably the direction they're going to go in. And if Colborne is added into the deal for JVR, then it's something they need to consider.

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02-07-2012, 08:37 PM
  #95
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Another abysmal showing by Carle. We should've traded him last week before he started tanking his value.

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02-07-2012, 09:10 PM
  #96
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I honestly think Carle is regressing in his play.

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02-07-2012, 09:10 PM
  #97
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Another abysmal showing by Carle. We should've traded him last week before he started tanking his value.
im having to reconsider my offer of a strait trade for a bag of pucks..

now its a bag of used pucks.


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02-07-2012, 09:19 PM
  #98
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Shhhh. Let's keep pretending he's "one of the better upcoming UFA Ds in the league" so some other (hopefully Eastern Conference) team can burn the barn down for him and live to regret it.

Ville Leino 2.0.

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02-07-2012, 09:19 PM
  #99
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Carle+ for either JJ, Suter, Schenn, Sbisa, Siemens... something...

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02-07-2012, 09:20 PM
  #100
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I honestly think Carle is regressing in his play.
When MAB looks much better in OT it's concerning.

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