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Steve Eminger out with separated shouler (2/3: Cleared to play)

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02-07-2012, 11:26 AM
  #201
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Originally Posted by JoeRangers View Post
Hes definitely not gonna be getting more than 15 and I would be surprised if he got that much. He was getting around 13 before he got hurt and thats probably what he'll get when he comes back.
Well, you're really only looking at the game he actually got hurt and didn't play the whole game.

But even if he gets 11-15 minutes, how is that not an improvement over what Bickel's getting? At the very least, it will give some of the Rangers D less PK time, which Bickel does not play but Eminger can.

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02-07-2012, 11:32 AM
  #202
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Im shocked At the Eminger love . He was a spare part last year and sat eventually to perennial whipping boy Gilroy . He can't stay on his skates and besides playing a Garnet Exelby banging game does little else . He is as much if a 6 /7 d man as Stu
Gilroy playing over Eminger had more to do with Matt's perceived offensive ability than anything. The team needed offense from the back end, not Eminger's defense. Regardless, Eminger stepped up and played some great, 20+ minute games in Staal's absence. Do you think Bickel could do that? To say that Eminger and Bickel are on the same level is a joke.

Bickel is a spare defenseman. Eminger has become a legitimate regular bottom pairing defenseman on a good defensive team.

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02-07-2012, 11:33 AM
  #203
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Well, you're really only looking at the game he actually got hurt and didn't play the whole game.

But even if he gets 11-15 minutes, how is that not an improvement over what Bickel's getting? At the very least, it will give some of the Rangers D less PK time, which Bickel does not play but Eminger can.
Game he got hurt he only played 6 min. He was averaging 13+ minutes a game before that. That was also when Staal was still out. It will definitely give the top 4 some relief on the PK though I agree with you on that

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02-07-2012, 11:34 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by JoeRangers View Post
His 12 minutes gives McD and Girardi more rest.
Come on now. Do you really see Eminger playing important minutes in teh 3rd? Torts is going to clamp down no matter what.

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02-07-2012, 11:37 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Gilroy playing over Eminger had more to do with Matt's perceived offensive ability than anything. The team needed offense from the back end, not Eminger's defense. Regardless, Eminger stepped up and played some great, 20+ minute games in Staal's absence. Do you think Bickel could do that? To say that Eminger and Bickel are on the same level is a joke.

Bickel is a spare defenseman. Eminger has become a legitimate regular bottom pairing defenseman on a good defensive team.
No one is saying that. However, teh fact is that both are bottom-6 defenseman. And let's not forget that Eminger has been been crucified on this board as well. The fact of the matter is that Bickel has NOT hurt the overall defense. He can have value as a # 6 defenseman. And frankly, I think that he did more in Sunday's game than Eminger could have to make an overall impact.

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02-07-2012, 11:38 AM
  #206
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Come on now. Do you really see Eminger playing important minutes in teh 3rd? Torts is going to clamp down no matter what.
If he plays 12 minutes prior to the third, rather than Bickel's 9, that's still three more minutes of rest for the other defensemen. Doesn't sound like a huge amount, but it can make a big difference.

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02-07-2012, 11:40 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
No one is saying that. However, teh fact is that both are bottom-6 defenseman. And let's not forget that Eminger has been been crucified on this board as well. The fact of the matter is that Bickel has NOT hurt the overall defense. He can have value as a # 6 defenseman. And frankly, I think that he did more in Sunday's game than Eminger could have to make an overall impact.
The guy I quoted said that.

I don't care if Eminger has been crucified here. I was a fan of his acquisition and think he's a good player. I also like Stu Bickel and think he's a player worth keeping around. However, Eminger is the better all-around player by a good margin and should get the majority of the starts.

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02-07-2012, 11:43 AM
  #208
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Only thing I'd argue between Bickel and eminger is that Bickel does have a toughness that Emmy doesn't ad for that matter maybe no other d man on our team has.

We can debate who should take that spot all day

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02-07-2012, 11:46 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
If he plays 12 minutes prior to the third, rather than Bickel's 9, that's still three more minutes of rest for the other defensemen. Doesn't sound like a huge amount, but it can make a big difference.
This is the right argument. Look, there isn't a top defensive team in the league who plays their #6 defenseman a lot during the 3rd period of a close game. It's whether or not your #6 can handle taking a regular shift during the first two periods and pulling in around 30% of the available ice time during those 2 periods. Then you make an assessment on how much to put him out for the 3rd.

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02-07-2012, 11:47 AM
  #210
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The better player should take the spot. That's Eminger. Play Bickel in games against Philly or other goon squads.

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02-07-2012, 11:48 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
And let's not forget that Eminger has been been crucified on this board as well.
As far as I'm concerned, he was crucified unjustly. Eminger was a pleasant surprise to me from the moment he came to the team. I don't expect a lot out of him to begin with though, which is where most of the criticism really came from.

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02-07-2012, 11:53 AM
  #212
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Come on now. Do you really see Eminger playing important minutes in teh 3rd? Torts is going to clamp down no matter what.
He was before he got hurt and more than held his own. He's gonna get his 12-13 min which is still double what Bickel was getting and is that much less the other 5 guys have to play

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02-07-2012, 12:08 PM
  #213
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He was before he got hurt and more than held his own.
Only because of injuries

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02-07-2012, 12:12 PM
  #214
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I don't expect a lot out of him to begin with though, which is where most of the criticism really came from.
Emingeri is what he is. a #6/7 defenseman. As is Bickel. I expect them to play their game. While I agree that Eminger is better overall, I also do not see him making the team that much better. And parcing out his 6 extra minutes to 5 defenseman over the course of an hour, does not make as much of a difference as people are making it out to be. I will admit to believing that Bickel has an element which is needed more than Eminger's. Every night? No. But in many more games than people think.

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02-07-2012, 12:14 PM
  #215
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Only because of injuries
Girardi and McDonagh only made this team in the first place because of injuries (and Bickel too, for that matter), so I'm not really sure what your point is. Hell, McDonagh made Rozsival expendable because he showed that he could handle the minutes.

I'm not saying Eminger is as good as either of those guys. The question is how he performs when he gets the opportunity, not how he got the opportunity.

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02-07-2012, 12:15 PM
  #216
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They should have a fall down count like they do for Hartnell for SE . Not saying Stu is better he's a squid on skates also but Eminger is swimming on the ice a lot . I like Stu in games which are physical better and some of those calls the other night were borderline . How Ronald McDonald aka Ronny the Rat even gets a call for is laughable . Both are bottom pair guys with the edge to SE because of experience . He's nit exactly Paul Coffey with the puck either or Larry Ribinson in his own zone after all .

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02-07-2012, 12:23 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Emingeri is what he is. a #6/7 defenseman. As is Bickel. I expect them to play their game. While I agree that Eminger is better overall, I also do not see him making the team that much better. And parcing out his 6 extra minutes to 5 defenseman over the course of an hour, does not make as much of a difference as people are making it out to be. I will admit to believing that Bickel has an element which is needed more than Eminger's. Every night? No. But in many more games than people think.
I agree. The point of 6/7 defensemen is that you can interchange them as needed, anyway. I don't expect Eminger to make us better in terms of the outcome of games. I just would rather have him in the lineup because I worry about the wear on the bodies of our best defensemen. Once we get to the playoffs, wear does become a factor. If you can give those guys even a tiny bit more of a break now, with Eminger in the lineup, you do it.

And by the way, it's not taking his 6 extra minutes and spreading it among 5 guys. Having a guy who can play 6 extra minutes paired with another player already capable of playing the same amount means less double shifting of the first pair. If you are playing Eminger more, it means you are playing Girardi less. But that also means that you'e playing McDonagh less and, for example, Staal more.

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02-07-2012, 12:26 PM
  #218
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Eminger is a bottom pairing defenseman who can fill in on the second pair. He has done an admirable job of this in the past.

Bickel is a spare defenseman who can play on the bottom pairing. That's not the same thing as Eminger.

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02-07-2012, 12:33 PM
  #219
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Only because of injuries
He was playing anywhere between 12-16 min a game at the beginning of the season and the only injury was Staal. With Sauer out and Eminger in now it should be around the same especially if hes paired with Staal. That pair would be good defensively and can give some rest to Girardi, McD, and even MDZ.

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02-07-2012, 01:15 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Eminger is a bottom pairing defenseman who can fill in on the second pair. He has done an admirable job of this in the past.

Bickel is a spare defenseman who can play on the bottom pairing. That's not the same thing as Eminger.
Utterly debateable just how admirable of a job Eminger has done. He an fill in a pinch, but I certainly would not want for him to be a #4 for 10 games.

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02-07-2012, 01:19 PM
  #221
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Utterly debateable just how admirable of a job Eminger has done. He an fill in a pinch, but I certainly would not want for him to be a #4 for 10 games.
In my opinion, its not very debatable when comparing him to Bickel, who simply cant play regular NHL minutes. Eminger is better than him.

Bickel looks like an asset against big/tough teams, but he looks like a pylon against teams with any speed at all. Can't play a regular shift throughout the game against either team.

Eminger is not a longterm top 4 option as you stated....and he doesnt have to be. 10-12 minutes to take some of the milage off of Girardi/McDonagh should be just fine. I also think, before too long, Staal will be up to the big minute totals we've come to know.

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02-07-2012, 01:58 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Eminger is a bottom pairing defenseman who can fill in on the second pair. He has done an admirable job of this in the past.

Bickel is a spare defenseman who can play on the bottom pairing. That's not the same thing as Eminger.
Agreed. Eminger did a good job of filling in the top 4 last season when Rozy got injured. It's certainly not something he is capable of doing for the majority of the season, but for a 5-10 game stint, he can play on the second pairing and not look out of place.

I'm not sure I can say the same for Bickel. Torts barely plays him in the 3rd period as it is, I'm not sure he can be trusted in such a role.

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02-07-2012, 02:04 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
In my opinion, its not very debatable when comparing him to Bickel, who simply cant play regular NHL minutes. Eminger is better than him.

Bickel looks like an asset against big/tough teams, but he looks like a pylon against teams with any speed at all. Can't play a regular shift throughout the game against either team.

Eminger is not a longterm top 4 option as you stated....and he doesnt have to be. 10-12 minutes to take some of the milage off of Girardi/McDonagh should be just fine. I also think, before too long, Staal will be up to the big minute totals we've come to know.
Why can he not play regular NHL # 6 defensemen minutes? A pylon? I would like to know what stat you are pointing to to refer to that? let's see. A stat I hate, but just for discussion, he is currenlty a +3, whereas Eminger was a +2. Bickel has currenly 5 points while in 10 more games, Eminger had 4. In 10 more games, Eminger averaged a whole .13 shots on game more than Bickel. Which basically, comes out to nothing. So again, please point to some emipirical evidence to support your statement. Becuae do you know how much worse he made the Rangers defense? The answer is not one iota. This team is not worse off with him in the lineup as opposed to Eminger.

Oh, and Eminger averaged 13:32 minutes again, whereas Bickel is at 9:27. A difference of 4:05. I am not beating the drum about Bickel being a better player, but let's not get ridiculous in how we laud Eminger. This talk of him being a second pairing defenseman is ludicrous. In the end, there is really not that much difference. Not when you look at the numbers. And for those that are suddenly lumping him into the 15-16 minute range, the question that I would have is that if he did nto play those minutes before, why would he now?

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02-07-2012, 02:08 PM
  #224
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Agreed. Eminger did a good job of filling in the top 4 last season when Rozy got injured. It's certainly not something he is capable of doing for the majority of the season, but for a 5-10 game stint, he can play on the second pairing and not look out of place.

I'm not sure I can say the same for Bickel. Torts barely plays him in the 3rd period as it is, I'm not sure he can be trusted in such a role.
No one is saying that Eminger cannot fill in. I jsut want to see what evidence people point to when they claim that he makes teh Rangers defense better. And what how it is that Bickel is a pylon who does nothing but takes stupid penalties.

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02-07-2012, 02:11 PM
  #225
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Why can he not play regular NHL # 6 defensemen minutes? A pylon? I would like to know what stat you are pointing to to refer to that? let's see. A stat I hate, but just for discussion, he is currenlty a +3, whereas Eminger was a +2. Bickel has currenly 5 points while in 10 more games, Eminger had 4. In 10 more games, Eminger averaged a whole .13 shots on game more than Bickel. Which basically, comes out to nothing. So again, please point to some emipirical evidence to support your statement. Becuae do you know how much worse he made the Rangers defense? The answer is not one iota. This team is not worse off with him in the lineup as opposed to Eminger.

Oh, and Eminger averaged 13:32 minutes again, whereas Bickel is at 9:27. A difference of 4:05. I am not beating the drum about Bickel being a better player, but let's not get ridiculous in how we laud Eminger. This talk of him being a second pairing defenseman is ludicrous. In the end, there is really not that much difference. Not when you look at the numbers. And for those that are suddenly lumping him into the 15-16 minute range, the question that I would have is that if he did nto play those minutes before, why would he now?
My suggestion to you would be instead of cherrypicking stats, use your eyes and your brain.

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