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Steve Eminger out with separated shouler (2/3: Cleared to play)

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Old
02-07-2012, 02:24 PM
  #226
JoeRangers
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
My suggestion to you would be instead of cherrypicking stats, use your eyes and your brain.
This plus the fact that hes playing with Staal and Eminger was playing with Woywitka, Bell and Erixon.

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02-07-2012, 02:51 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
My suggestion to you would be instead of cherrypicking stats, use your eyes and your brain.
I do. And I disagree that he is a pylon. I must have missed him getting beat on a regular basis and leaving the goalie high and dry. And for a # 6 defenseman who is averaging roughly 9.5 minutes a game, I do not see how he is hurting the team. Or is not doing as much as Eminger to help it. Cherry pickign stats? Does that not mean that I choose some and not others? Did I miss some? Your assertion was that he is a pylon. The facts do not support it. Nor do the eyes.

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02-07-2012, 03:27 PM
  #228
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I do. And I disagree that he is a pylon. I must have missed him getting beat on a regular basis and leaving the goalie high and dry. And for a # 6 defenseman who is averaging roughly 9.5 minutes a game, I do not see how he is hurting the team. Or is not doing as much as Eminger to help it. Cherry pickign stats? Does that not mean that I choose some and not others? Did I miss some? Your assertion was that he is a pylon. The facts do not support it. Nor do the eyes.
I think he was saying that stats dont always tell the whole story. I mean Marek Malik did lead the team in +/- once.

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02-07-2012, 04:31 PM
  #229
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I think he was saying that stats dont always tell the whole story. I mean Marek Malik did lead the team in +/- once.
Yes, I know and personally detest the +/- stat. However, pylongs are typically in the negatives. There are things that stats are good for. And they DO tell a tale. They certainly show that he is not quite the pylon that he is being made out to be nor is his actual contribution all that much less than that of Eminger.

And think about it. Eminger is averaging a little more than 2 shifts a period extra than Bickel is.

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02-07-2012, 05:19 PM
  #230
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I honestly cannot believe all the Bickel love. He's not an NHL caliber defenseman. He can't make a simple outlet pass to save his life. He's made defensive miscues in pretty much every game he's played. And you don't want your defensemen fighting anyway. You want a defenseman hitting. Eminger does that. Eminger does all the toughness things you want in a 5-6 defenseman and he's much better than Bickel defensively.

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02-07-2012, 05:38 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
The better player should take the spot. That's Eminger. Play Bickel in games against Philly or other goon squads.
That is when we should drop a forward and keep Bickel in the game...heck stick him in front of the net on a PP for us...what the heck can it hurt ??? Certainly won't hurt our PP #'s any . I think we could drop a forward for a couple of games and double shift Richards and Gabby and a few of the better guys who always like the extra ice time...just a thought .

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02-07-2012, 06:30 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
I do. And I disagree that he is a pylon. I must have missed him getting beat on a regular basis and leaving the goalie high and dry. And for a # 6 defenseman who is averaging roughly 9.5 minutes a game, I do not see how he is hurting the team. Or is not doing as much as Eminger to help it. Cherry pickign stats? Does that not mean that I choose some and not others? Did I miss some? Your assertion was that he is a pylon. The facts do not support it. Nor do the eyes.
What a wonderful time for you to start waxing poetic about Stu Bickel. Your eyes did not deceive you, he got caught out of position and took a stupid penalty that led to the Devils' opening goal.

Bickel plays for a good team. Part of the reason the Rangers are a good team is because Bickel plays extremely limited minutes. You dont think 4 minutes per night is a big deal - it is. His play has been steadily declining since his first 5 games here. Thats called getting exposed.

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02-07-2012, 09:43 PM
  #233
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we need emi

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02-07-2012, 11:48 PM
  #234
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we need emi
He's ready to go. However, in one of the worst decisions of Torts' tenure here, he chose to play Bickel instead. This, after Bickel took 3 minors against Philly, 2 of which were really bad penalties. He's a clearly inferior player to Eminger and this team has more than enough fighters and toughness without him. Sometimes Torts is so stubborn he needs to be hit over the head to see something. I expect to see Eminger against Tampa, but won't be shocked if Torts keeps Bickel in the line-up and somehow finds a way to justify it.

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02-08-2012, 01:13 AM
  #235
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it would be one thing if his penalties were aggression penalties....roughing, boarding, charging.

they arent. its hooking, holding, interference....

blech.

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02-08-2012, 01:39 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
it would be one thing if his penalties were aggression penalties....roughing, boarding, charging.

they arent. its hooking, holding, interference....

blech.
Yep, that's why I said he took 2 bad penalties against Philly, not 3. I didn't mind the boarding penalty at all, too bad it wasn't on Giroux. He keeps letting go of the stick with one hand and putting it on players. That always gets called in today's NHL.

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02-08-2012, 05:33 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
I honestly cannot believe all the Bickel love. He's not an NHL caliber defenseman. He can't make a simple outlet pass to save his life. He's made defensive miscues in pretty much every game he's played. And you don't want your defensemen fighting anyway. You want a defenseman hitting. Eminger does that. Eminger does all the toughness things you want in a 5-6 defenseman and he's much better than Bickel defensively.
Because he's a "mean guy cleaning the crease", never mind he sucks
Eminger>>>Bickel

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02-08-2012, 07:36 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
I honestly cannot believe all the Bickel love. He's not an NHL caliber defenseman. He can't make a simple outlet pass to save his life. He's made defensive miscues in pretty much every game he's played. And you don't want your defensemen fighting anyway. You want a defenseman hitting. Eminger does that. Eminger does all the toughness things you want in a 5-6 defenseman and he's much better than Bickel defensively.
Conversely, I canot believe all of teh Eminger love. And again, I am just playing devil's advocate. If you do not want your defensemen fighting, then why some of the defensive choices that the Rangers have drafted over the last several years? Fighting is a part of their game. Not sure how Eminger is a big hitter, since I have yet to see him lay a major lick onto anyone.

And as for him being "much" better, that is highly suspect. NONE of the statistics bear out that way.

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02-08-2012, 07:39 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
What a wonderful time for you to start waxing poetic about Stu Bickel. Your eyes did not deceive you, he got caught out of position and took a stupid penalty that led to the Devils' opening goal.

Bickel plays for a good team. Part of the reason the Rangers are a good team is because Bickel plays extremely limited minutes. You dont think 4 minutes per night is a big deal - it is. His play has been steadily declining since his first 5 games here. Thats called getting exposed.
i KNEW that this was going to be brought up. And Stralman's holding penalt was MUCH better? The hounds cannot wait to latch on.

If Bickel plays 4 minutes a night, then why does he average over 9? All I am saying is that it is time to stop cannonizing Eminger into something that he is not. In the end, he is every bit the #6/7 defenseman that Bickel is. And he DOES NOT make the team any better with his play.

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02-08-2012, 09:48 AM
  #240
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
i KNEW that this was going to be brought up. And Stralman's holding penalt was MUCH better? The hounds cannot wait to latch on.

If Bickel plays 4 minutes a night, then why does he average over 9? All I am saying is that it is time to stop cannonizing Eminger into something that he is not. In the end, he is every bit the #6/7 defenseman that Bickel is. And he DOES NOT make the team any better with his play.
Totally disagree with the bolded. While I agree that Eminger is an ideal #6, he has shown the ability to step in and play top 4 minutes when needed. Bickel is not capable of that level of play yet.

EDIT: Also, that holding penalty was Stralman's 3rd minor penalty all season, Bickel had that many on Sunday. Bickel's play has fallen off, Eminger deserves to be playing.

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02-08-2012, 11:19 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
i KNEW that this was going to be brought up. And Stralman's holding penalt was MUCH better? The hounds cannot wait to latch on.

If Bickel plays 4 minutes a night, then why does he average over 9? All I am saying is that it is time to stop cannonizing Eminger into something that he is not. In the end, he is every bit the #6/7 defenseman that Bickel is. And he DOES NOT make the team any better with his play.
I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Eminger has played games this year in the top 4. Bickel has not. Your eyes may be telling you that Bickel is just as good as Eminger, but let's look at it logically for a moment.

Eminger played in 30 games averaging 13:32 TOI. Only 4 times did he play less than 10 minutes in a game, and one of those was the game in which he got hurt. He averaged 1:32 short-handed per game.

Bickel has played in 21 games averaging 9:29 TOI. He has only played over 10 minutes in 8 of those games, none in the last 9 games. He averages 0:09 short-handed per game.

So regardless of what your eyes are telling you, it's clear that Torts trusts Eminger more than he does Bickel. Having Bickel play instead of Eminger means more minutes and more pressure for our other dmen, which I hope you would agree is a bad thing.

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02-08-2012, 11:43 AM
  #242
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
i KNEW that this was going to be brought up. And Stralman's holding penalt was MUCH better? The hounds cannot wait to latch on.

If Bickel plays 4 minutes a night, then why does he average over 9? All I am saying is that it is time to stop cannonizing Eminger into something that he is not. In the end, he is every bit the #6/7 defenseman that Bickel is. And he DOES NOT make the team any better with his play.
Eminger is a legitimate #6/7 guy. Stu Bickel is not. I think you better reassess who is getting cannonized here.

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02-08-2012, 11:50 AM
  #243
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I still think this is a silly argument.

At the deadline you ideally add another veteran defenseman or two. Rendering both extras..

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02-08-2012, 12:27 PM
  #244
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Totally disagree with the bolded. While I agree that Eminger is an ideal #6, he has shown the ability to step in and play top 4 minutes when needed. Bickel is not capable of that level of play yet.

EDIT: Also, that holding penalty was Stralman's 3rd minor penalty all season, Bickel had that many on Sunday. Bickel's play has fallen off, Eminger deserves to be playing.
Bad penalties get taken by everyone. Bickel has not been tipping the wagon with them. i agree that Bickel is not anything higher than a 6/7, but he can also be coached and has a place in the league. There is a reason why most think that he would not pass through waivers.

I do not agree that Eminger has proven that he can play #4 on an extended basis. I am not an eminger hater, but I think that he is a limited player and absence has made the heart grow fonder.

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02-08-2012, 12:28 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Eminger is a legitimate #6/7 guy. Stu Bickel is not. I think you better reassess who is getting cannonized here.
Sorry, to me, Bickel is also a 6/7. and the team is not necessarily any better or worse with him or Eminger. Emiger's "betterness" does not translate into making the Rangers a better team.

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02-08-2012, 01:02 PM
  #246
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Put Avery on defense and he brings everything that Bickel brings, plus more.

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02-08-2012, 01:08 PM
  #247
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Emiger's "betterness" does not translate into making the Rangers a better team.
Big picture

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02-08-2012, 01:18 PM
  #248
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After the first period last night, it was 4 periods in a row Bickel had taken a minor to give the other team a PP.

I'm ready for Eminger to slot back in.

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02-08-2012, 01:24 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Sorry, to me, Bickel is also a 6/7. and the team is not necessarily any better or worse with him or Eminger. Emiger's "betterness" does not translate into making the Rangers a better team.
It's not about Eminger making the team a better team. It's about him preventing the team from becoming a worse team through fatigue.

What don't you get?

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02-08-2012, 02:57 PM
  #250
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eminger is a marginal improvement on bickel. Eminger isn't nearly as good as ppl are making him out to be. Neither is bickel. Frankly neither should be regulars on your D. Nor should Woywitka.

Stralman has some excellent instincts. he picks his spots VERY well to join the offensive play. just wish he had a better shot. I like Stralman a lot.

Sauer can't get healthy quick enough, because truth be told, SAUER is the guy who will help this D more than anyone else. We need him, he's such a damn good, smart, subtle player. RARELY makes mistakes, and makes nice outlet passes. pair him and staal together for a borderline elite top 6 defense.

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