What the fans think and what the GM thinks are not generally ever in tune. They have no chance at the cup this year, and they've clearly got some 'core issues'. Downie is certainly not untouchable in that climate.
They're one year removed from being probably the best team in the Eastern Conference and a lot of that was built on forward depth. Particularly the play of Thompson and Hall who have fallen off a cliff this season but guys like Gagne (when he was in the lineup) and Bergenheim were important pieces. IMO they can ill afford to let another forward go and Downie's value would probably cost a lot to replace through free agency if it's even possible.
I've been trying to stay out of these discussions, but I wanted to address this point. The problem is that you do not understand how statistics work. When talking about stats there is cause, correlation, and noise. For example, when you say things like:
You are confusing a fact, that the fourth line was outshot 29-13 without Murray; to a cause that that reason that the fourth line was outshot was because Murray was not on the ice. The fact is that you simply have no basis for that causal statement.
In order to have any statistical validity in saying that the absence of Murray was directly the cause of the fourth line being outshot the situation in ALL of the games this season, both with and without Murray, would have to be the same. That means the exact same teams playing, with the exact same rosters, with all the players in the exact same condition of health, at exactly the same time, on exactly the same ice surface, with exactly the same penalties called at the same time to same players, etc. To prove CAUSE, you must have the some conditions in a testable manner.
But the problem is that you can't even really infer a solid correlation relationship with those stats. Are those shot counts adjusted depending on opposition, line mates, time on ice, health of the players, and other factors that might skew the numbers one way or another? No, they aren't. And even if could infer a correlation relationship, you might be drawing the wrong one. You seem to saying that Murray is so defensively sound that his presence on the ice reduces the oppositions ability to get shots on net. I could just as easily say that the correlation instead is that Murray is so bad defensively that the defensive pairs are more careful when he is on the ice, effectively reducing the shots against. And that when he is off the ice, they trust the remaining forwards defensive abilities more allowing more shots on goal knowing they have additional defensive support to help clear the rebounds.
So basically, you are quoting all these stats that are basically just noise. An individual stat like shooting %, shots against, or any other stat may have some correlational relationship to player impact when looked at over a broad sample size to a generic player. So I might be able to say that in general, over hundreds of NHL players measured over thousands of NHL games, that when a player is on the ice and the opposition gets more shots than the players team gets shots for, that that represents a correlation to the players defensive skills. The broad sample size helps moderate out factors like player improvement or declines in skills; injuries; differences in teams skills, etc. But the statistics simply do not support drawing those same conclusions on a causal basis when looked for an individual player over a particular (especially a small) period of time.
At best, the statistics can help identify trends that MAY be applicable to certain players at certain times, and provide coaches, scouts, fans, and others things to look for to see if they may be true at a particular time. But in the end, individual observation (as subjective as it is) and memory (as faulty as that is) are more likely to support relevant analysis of an individual players impact that trying to apply such specific stats as you are.
While LW's counter-argument that one can never have a controlled game has merit, the core of this post is great.
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2011: Outcoached by Vigneault. 2012: Outcoached all season and postseason by Hitch.
2013: Outcoached by most coaches in the NHL. Who's left? 12 year olds on Xbox Live? SACK T-MAC NOW
Whitney will probably stay in Phoenix, they are beginning to turn it around. If they win tonight (they are up 4-1 in the 3rd), they will crawl into the playoff picture.
I'm hoping the Lightning will struggle down the stretch. Would love to have one of Downie, Malone, Purcell, Moore. Brassard, Vermette or Umberger would be solid too.
having a player re-sign with a team doesnt mean trades wont happen
see: Setoguchi
It doesn't really bode well for the organization if you extend an UFA only to trade him. It's a bit different with Setoguchi considering his rights belonged to the Sharks regardless.
It doesn't really bode well for the organization if you extend an UFA only to trade him. It's a bit different with Setoguchi considering his rights belonged to the Sharks regardless.
and it is also much different then trading a streaky 3rd line player who can fill in on the top 2 lines, for what could be in the future a norris candidate.
As players are re-signed our window to acquire anyone gets worse and worse. If it comes down to deadline day I assure you we are going to end up with 3rd rate guys at best (like Moen). At which point, honestly, I wouldn't waste the assets. Sharks will not win the cup with 3rd rate depth.
As players are re-signed our window to acquire anyone gets worse and worse. If it comes down to deadline day I assure you we are going to end up with 3rd rate guys at best (like Moen). At which point, honestly, I wouldn't waste the assets. Sharks will not win the cup with 3rd rate depth.
Sucks that we're waiting on other teams to fall put of the race so we can fill out our team. Hopefully DW fills the roster in the offseason so this doesn't happen again. It feels like he's waiting a long time to make his move, again.
If Moen is the best available, I hope he keeps the pick, but I'm worried he's going to make a trade anyways.
As players are re-signed our window to acquire anyone gets worse and worse. If it comes down to deadline day I assure you we are going to end up with 3rd rate guys at best (like Moen). At which point, honestly, I wouldn't waste the assets. Sharks will not win the cup with 3rd rate depth.
This.
The part that sucks is that we dont get to hear much about this trade talk till the trade has already happened. So who knows whats going on.
Sucks that we're waiting on other teams to fall put of the race so we can fill out our team. Hopefully DW fills the roster in the offseason so this doesn't happen again. It feels like he's waiting a long time to make his move, again.
If Moen is the best available, I hope he keeps the pick, but I'm worried he's going to make a trade anyways.
Yah, so much for "making moves earlier" eh? Though I don't totally blame him for that, I think parity has made the market abysmal. Even if he we had valuable assets, the price is likely too high. I haven't really seen any moves this year so far that I though "Man, I wish we had the assets to have made that move!" or "Why didn't DW make a better offer than that?!"
But waiting for teams to fall out is exactly what is going on. As more players become available, prices go down, however as prices go down, teams with more to offer will make their move. Hopefully DW surprises us, but I'm really, really, worried we are going to end up with (at best) a rental 3rd rate player :\
Rumors starting up about Nash wanting out. Would be awesome for the Sharks to pick him up, plus I hear he is good friends with JT.
Sharks would have to give up alot to aquire him though.Dont know if it woule be worth it
Huge pass on Nash. Would destroy our cap / salary structure. Was discussed here a few weeks ago.
Regarding trades, thing is other than Detroit, every team seems to have holes and I'm not really convinced the Wings have what it takes to go far in the playoffs. We'd all love for DW to make a trade now but it takes two to tango and there are a lot of potential buyers right now.
Rumors starting up about Nash wanting out. Would be awesome for the Sharks to pick him up, plus I hear he is good friends with JT.
Sharks would have to give up alot to aquire him though.Dont know if it woule be worth it
We simply don't have the assets or the moveable contracts. We can't afford a nearly $8m (overpaid) Nash unless we move one of JT (NMC, couterproductive), Marleau (NMC, lateral move), or Havlat (NTC, injury concerns). Even Havlat really doesn't clear enough cap space and we end up right back where we started. Overloaded on top-6, no bottom-6 depth.
So no on Nash, don't want that contract, don't see how he makes us better.
