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Boychuk and future with Bruins

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Old
02-07-2012, 01:28 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Have many times have you heard the phrase "pen someone in?" Or "permanent marker someone in?" "Pencil someone in" doesnt always suggest not permanently, especially on a message board. And how the hell am i supposed to know what u mean? People are spewing crap like "Hamilton is gonna be so friggin nasty next to Chara on the first unit next year! Yeah!" Be clearer next time.

My point remains, Hamilton might not be ready so before we go into camp we need a top six that woudl be competitive if Hamilton WASNT ready. Not sure Corvo or Aucoin does that.
Not seeing a big drop from Boychuk to Aucoin, honestly. Aucoin is smarter defensively while Boychuk throws bigger hits. I just think Aucoin could probably be had for smaller money and much fewer years than Boychuk can. As for improving the top 6, getting a guy like Whitney or Visnovsky would do that already. Whitney & Aucoin instead of Boychuk & Corvo is a positive, IMO. Hamilton being the wildcard, along with maybe a surprise like Chudinov, Cross or Warsofsky (although I'm not counting on them for a thing). Maybe Aucoin can convince Ray Whitney to take a one-year deal to come to Boston, too (imagine Jack Edwards having 2 R. Whitney's on the team)

As for Corvo, I honestly think that a healthy training camp and good off-season puts Kampfer at the same level as Corvo, and that's not saying much.

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02-07-2012, 01:33 PM
  #52
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3 is as high as I go for a guy who`s never hit 20pts in the NHL, and that, to me, is probably too high

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02-07-2012, 01:37 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by nycbruins View Post
Not seeing a big drop from Boychuk to Aucoin, honestly. Aucoin is smarter defensively while Boychuk throws bigger hits. I just think Aucoin could probably be had for smaller money and much fewer years than Boychuk can. As for improving the top 6, getting a guy like Whitney or Visnovsky would do that already. Whitney & Aucoin instead of Boychuk & Corvo is a positive, IMO. Hamilton being the wildcard, along with maybe a surprise like Chudinov, Cross or Warsofsky (although I'm not counting on them for a thing). Maybe Aucoin can convince Ray Whitney to take a one-year deal to come to Boston, too (imagine Jack Edwards having 2 R. Whitney's on the team)

As for Corvo, I honestly think that a healthy training camp and good off-season puts Kampfer at the same level as Corvo, and that's not saying much.
I think Ryan Whitney is interesting, although I just saw he might be put on waivers, so not sure.

I think Boychuk is significantly better than Aucoin, especially since he has more time in Juliens system. I also dont think we can count on a 37 year old to play the 20+ minutes Boychuk plays every night. I wouldnt mind him if he was a bottom pairing guy, but still not a fan of him in the top four.

I agree that Corvo needs to be upgraded, but I also believe hed be a more than capable 7th defensman. My point was to sign six vets (Chara, Seids, Boychuk/UFA, Ference, McQUaid, Corvo/Aucoin/Vis/UFA) that would be competitive enough to play significant time early next season should Hamilton not be ready. If Hamilton shows hes ready, then we have a good vet for depth. If the unit proves to not be good enough, then we can address it and not be completely screwed when Kampfer (IMO not as good as Corvo), is our sixth d, and Bart is our 7th D

We want to give Hamilton EVERY opportunity to make the top six, but we certainly should not put him in a situaion he most definitely isnt ready for.

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02-07-2012, 01:44 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
I think Ryan Whitney is interesting, although I just saw he might be put on waivers, so not sure.

I think Boychuk is significantly better than Aucoin, especially since he has more time in Juliens system. I also dont think we can count on a 37 year old to play the 20+ minutes Boychuk plays every night. I wouldnt mind him if he was a bottom pairing guy, but still not a fan of him in the top four.

I agree that Corvo needs to be upgraded, but I also believe hed be a more than capable 7th defensman. My point was to sign six vets (Chara, Seids, Boychuk/UFA, Ference, McQUaid, Corvo/Aucoin/Vis/UFA) that would be competitive enough to play significant time early next season should Hamilton not be ready. If Hamilton shows hes ready, then we have a good vet for depth. If the unit proves to not be good enough, then we can address it and not be completely screwed when Kampfer (IMO not as good as Corvo), is our sixth d, and Bart is our 7th D

We want to give Hamilton EVERY opportunity to make the top six, but we certainly should not put him in a situaion he most definitely isnt ready for.
I`m a total fence sitter on the Dougie subject, I think he could learn a ton (which I don`t think he`ll be able to do in Junior, he`ll play a ton down there but I believe the better lessons would come from the Pro`s) from being around vets, especially guys like Z/Ference/Seids on the back end, but I think another year in Junior wouldn`t hurt nor set him back one bit.

IMO, CJ could easily insulate him in this system, not feed him 18-20 mins a game, similair to how Kaberle was used in the playoffs, and how I think Corvo will be used this one if he`s still a Bruin.

Again, Hamilton has the potential to be special, a talent on the back end that we haven`t seen as fans drafted by the Bruins in a loooooooooooong time, if the GM/Coaches/Player Dev`p guys think he`ll be better served in either or, I`m with them, they are far better evaluators of talent than I, if that means we have to wait a year, so be it, JUST DON`T TRADE HIM!!!

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02-07-2012, 01:48 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
I think Ryan Whitney is interesting, although I just saw he might be put on waivers, so not sure.

I think Boychuk is significantly better than Aucoin, especially since he has more time in Juliens system. I also dont think we can count on a 37 year old to play the 20+ minutes Boychuk plays every night. I wouldnt mind him if he was a bottom pairing guy, but still not a fan of him in the top four.

I agree that Corvo needs to be upgraded, but I also believe hed be a more than capable 7th defensman. My point was to sign six vets (Chara, Seids, Boychuk/UFA, Ference, McQUaid, Corvo/Aucoin/Vis/UFA) that would be competitive enough to play significant time early next season should Hamilton not be ready. If Hamilton shows hes ready, then we have a good vet for depth. If the unit proves to not be good enough, then we can address it and not be completely screwed when Kampfer (IMO not as good as Corvo), is our sixth d, and Bart is our 7th D

We want to give Hamilton EVERY opportunity to make the top six, but we certainly should not put him in a situaion he most definitely isnt ready for.
That was based on an article about fantasy leagues and how he's available on waivers in most leagues, not in reality.

But, that being said, his price in trade is probably lower than it should be because of the ankle issues.

A gamble, no doubt.

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02-07-2012, 01:56 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by nycbruins View Post
That was based on an article about fantasy leagues and how he's available on waivers in most leagues, not in reality.

But, that being said, his price in trade is probably lower than it should be because of the ankle issues.

A gamble, no doubt.
Oh haha, didn't even check it.

Again, interesting IMO. Would need to do more research if hes available.

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02-07-2012, 01:57 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by nycbruins View Post
That was based on an article about fantasy leagues and how he's available on waivers in most leagues, not in reality.

But, that being said, his price in trade is probably lower than it should be because of the ankle issues.

A gamble, no doubt.
Ankle injuries are tough for all players (see Looch) but I would be ultra careful when it comes to a D-man with history of issues when it involves the ankles

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02-07-2012, 02:02 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post
I`m a total fence sitter on the Dougie subject, I think he could learn a ton (which I don`t think he`ll be able to do in Junior, he`ll play a ton down there but I believe the better lessons would come from the Pro`s) from being around vets, especially guys like Z/Ference/Seids on the back end, but I think another year in Junior wouldn`t hurt nor set him back one bit.

IMO, CJ could easily insulate him in this system, not feed him 18-20 mins a game, similair to how Kaberle was used in the playoffs, and how I think Corvo will be used this one if he`s still a Bruin.

Again, Hamilton has the potential to be special, a talent on the back end that we haven`t seen as fans drafted by the Bruins in a loooooooooooong time, if the GM/Coaches/Player Dev`p guys think he`ll be better served in either or, I`m with them, they are far better evaluators of talent than I, if that means we have to wait a year, so be it, JUST DON`T TRADE HIM!!!
Pretty much agree on all counts. The people going on about him playing in the top four out of the get go are just 100% off though. There is absolutely no guarantee he'll be in the NHL next year, let alone the top four.

Like I've been saying, we need to have a Plan B shoudl Hamilton not be ready, and signing stop gap vets like Corvo/Aucoin/whomever could be that plan.

I think Corvo would be a great 7th defensman, which is one of the reasons I want him around. Hes been in the system, can play some PP if need be, and could be insulated at 12-14 mins a night if theres some minor maintennance days/suspensions.

Bottom line though, we NEED to prepare as if Hamilton wont be making the team next year, because if we dont and he proves raw and not ready, we'll have Kampfer as our sixth defensman, and dip into our bevy of Providence d men for 7th.

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02-07-2012, 02:59 PM
  #59
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Ankle injuries are tough for all players (see Looch) but I would be ultra careful when it comes to a D-man with history of issues when it involves the ankles
Very careful. Also have to be careful giving up the farm or tons of money and years for a d-man with that skill-set.

NOBODY is going to be a slam dunk in that slot, except maybe Ryan Suter (who will cost probably $7 million/year for 10 years to sign.)

Getting a GM to give up on a PMD is like pulling teeth in this market. So maybe you take a 1-year gamble on a local boy with ankle issues who is what the team needs when healthy.

So we can say everything's a risk. And if you don't take any risks, you end up with Joe Corvo as your premier PMD.

Edit: It can go the other way, and you take a big risk giving up a lot for a guy like Visnovsky to come in and not fit in the system and fail like Kaberle kind of did.

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02-07-2012, 03:04 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Pretty much agree on all counts. The people going on about him playing in the top four out of the get go are just 100% off though. There is absolutely no guarantee he'll be in the NHL next year, let alone the top four.

Like I've been saying, we need to have a Plan B shoudl Hamilton not be ready, and signing stop gap vets like Corvo/Aucoin/whomever could be that plan.

I think Corvo would be a great 7th defensman, which is one of the reasons I want him around. Hes been in the system, can play some PP if need be, and could be insulated at 12-14 mins a night if theres some minor maintennance days/suspensions.

Bottom line though, we NEED to prepare as if Hamilton wont be making the team next year, because if we dont and he proves raw and not ready, we'll have Kampfer as our sixth defensman, and dip into our bevy of Providence d men for 7th.
Were on the same page here too, another scenario that I am not expecting one bit, but it also wouldn`t surprise me, is that Dougie absolutely earns a starting spot based on play outta training camp<< to be clear, I`m not talking 2nd D spot, 5-6th is more realistic

Either way, like I said, he was an absolute gift at #9 and "could" be exceptionally special, I`ll wait a year if I have to if it means he`ll be even stronger, more mature if that`s what those who know far more than I feel is best for him by sending him back to Junior. Every prospect is different, the B`s may be anticipating another year in Junior for him but he comes in, shows he`s comfortable enough, mature enough, and strong enough to handle the NHL with some insulation in CJ`s system.

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02-07-2012, 03:08 PM
  #61
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Very careful. Also have to be careful giving up the farm or tons of money and years for a d-man with that skill-set.

NOBODY is going to be a slam dunk in that slot, except maybe Ryan Suter (who will cost probably $7 million/year for 10 years to sign.)

Getting a GM to give up on a PMD is like pulling teeth in this market. So maybe you take a 1-year gamble on a local boy with ankle issues who is what the team needs when healthy.

So we can say everything's a risk. And if you don't take any risks, you end up with Joe Corvo as your premier PMD.

Edit: It can go the other way, and you take a big risk giving up a lot for a guy like Visnovsky to come in and not fit in the system and fail like Kaberle kind of did.
Yup, fans here will remember the damaged goods that Fernandez was, and Zhamnov for those who`ve been here a touch longer, Chia won`t make the Fernandez kind of mistake again. Boston is no longer a city that has to overpay for jack squat, it looks like they are setting themselves up nicely to be a very legit contender for a few yrs down the road, they have a Prez who is well respected, a coach who from all accounts, is very much respected by those who are playing for him, and a GM who is fair.

Pretty attractive list of reasons why UFA`s would entertain Boston as a destination that they and their families if they have one would have to take seriously.

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02-07-2012, 03:35 PM
  #62
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However, I have a feeling that Johnny takes a home town discount to stay a Bruin. Just a hunch
That's what I'm really hoping for. Love Johnny B

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02-07-2012, 03:35 PM
  #63
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Competition breeds excellence

The more dmen in camp the better. If Dougie pans out & makes the roster, Im pretty confident Chiarelli can find a taker for a surplus dman or two (just look at the dman market right now!)

If the capspace is available, Chia should use it up wisely (1yr deals) on a few NHL capable dmen who could be traded off or waived if Hamilton impresses.

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02-07-2012, 03:51 PM
  #64
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3 years
1st year 2.75
2nd year 3
3rd 3.25

Dougie and Boychunk play two totally different games. Dougie is a very offensive minded d-man and need to work on his defense. Boychuck is a Defensive d-man while some offensive skill and a hard shot. They are not interchangalble. Corvo and Dougie are Corvo is gone.

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02-07-2012, 04:04 PM
  #65
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In a perfect world these are the pairings I'm hoping for next season.

Chara/Hamilton
Seidenberg/Boychuk
Ference/McQuaid

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02-07-2012, 04:11 PM
  #66
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If I'm the Bruins I either let Boychuk walk in the offseason or trade him before the deadline. Here's my argument:

- This team won the Cup last season relying heavily on a Chara-Seidenberg pairing. Both of those guys logged BIG minutes, and are even more prone to injury/fatigue than they'd otherwise be. another long playoff run would add even more mileage. Since those guys are clearly our #1 and #2, I think this team needs to consider an investment in another top pairing gy, or fringe top pairing guy, and Boychuk isn't one. Just because he manages to be decent next to the league's best defensive d-man doesn't make him a top 2 d-man.

- The team has cap space and Hamilton knocking on the door next year or the year after. They probably need to replace Corvo. I'd think they'd be better off adding $2m-$3m to the $4m they'd need for Boychuk to sign/trade for a far better defenseman than Boychuk himself.

Put simply, if they have $8m for d-men and need two next season, I'd rather split that $6/$2 or $7/$1 then go with Boychuk and another $4m man. They need some insurance for the top 2.

I agree with your reasoning. I like Boychuk but feel that the money he will likely get should be spent on a high end, LH shot defenseman who has the ability to play the top pairing. The caliber of player should include Suter and Jack Johnson.

This would more likely happen after the season. If they can get lucky and find a player who makes it to free agency (Suter) that would be great, but unlikely.

If they have to go the trade route I think they should consider moving almost any combination of players/picks to get it done.

2012

Chara - Seidenberg
Suter/Johnson - Hamilton
Ference - McQuaid
Solid veteran

If Hamilton isn't ready to play put him at the #7 spot until his game comes around and he can move up.

This defense will set the Bruins up for a long time.

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02-08-2012, 09:48 AM
  #67
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There are some lesser known d,s that maybe good additions for next year. like another boychuk but cheaper. hamilto. imo will make the team as the 6th guy, and get a chanc to qb the pp. boychuk resigning is slim i feel hopefully campbell and pailledont ask alot either

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02-08-2012, 10:03 AM
  #68
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The good and the bad for Boychuk this year, as I see it, is that he isn't playing himself up to a massive contract. I hate the numbers games, I really don't care for accountants' hockey fan stuff (leave that business to the suits, I say), but I've noticed with some chagrin how very quietly Johnny's been playing lately. His biggest asset is his physical game and it's been very subtle so far this year.

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02-08-2012, 10:15 AM
  #69
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The good and the bad for Boychuk this year, as I see it, is that he isn't playing himself up to a massive contract. I hate the numbers games, I really don't care for accountants' hockey fan stuff (leave that business to the suits, I say), but I've noticed with some chagrin how very quietly Johnny's been playing lately. His biggest asset is his physical game and it's been very subtle so far this year.
I think the reason for this is the big hits take him out of the play especially when he misses.
I think he's trying to cut down on mistakes which actually improves his game while drawing less attention to himself.
I just wish he could figure out how to move or aim or whatever to get that shot thru to the goal in a way that's productive.
But maybe he should figure all that out AFTER re-signing with the Bruins for less

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02-08-2012, 10:16 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by 8spokesontheB View Post
The good and the bad for Boychuk this year, as I see it, is that he isn't playing himself up to a massive contract. I hate the numbers games, I really don't care for accountants' hockey fan stuff (leave that business to the suits, I say), but I've noticed with some chagrin how very quietly Johnny's been playing lately. His biggest asset is his physical game and it's been very subtle so far this year.
I think he has cut down on his aggressiveness this year, but I think that may have been by design, maybe as a directive from the coaching staff (just a guess).

I think when he got himself in trouble in the past he was trying to be too aggressive at times, making a pass that was not there or too risky, pinching in at the wrong times, going for the big hit and taking himself out of the play, etc.

I think a lot of times in the past he was a bang or bust player, and this year he has been more steady, if not as spectacular. Ultimately, I think that is what this coaching staff wants, guys that work within the system, don't make big mistakes, and contribute offensively when the time is right, as long as it is within the framework of what they are trying to do as a team.

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02-08-2012, 10:35 AM
  #71
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Chiarelli certainly can't give him more than what he gave Seidenberg (3.25M) so if he's asking for more, than he's gone...

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02-08-2012, 10:38 AM
  #72
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In a perfect world these are the pairings I'm hoping for next season.

Chara/Hamilton
Seidenberg/Boychuk
Ference/McQuaid
In a perfect world, Suter's name would be in these pairings...

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02-08-2012, 12:44 PM
  #73
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Johnny is really good in his own end doesn't throw the puck to just throw it. he takes hits to make plays and does a good job at it. Is that worth 3-4 million. I don't think so. you pay Campbell 1.1 who is more valuable to this team imo. let him walk or resign less than 2

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02-08-2012, 12:51 PM
  #74
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McLaren came straight into the Bruins lineup at 18. I know the game is different now, but McLaren played on the first pair with Bourque as a mentor and the same thing is possible with Hamilton and Chara if Hamilton is ready in September.
I think McLaren was already 220lbs. though, at about same height as Hamilton.

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02-08-2012, 12:57 PM
  #75
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Chiarelli certainly can't give him more than what he gave Seidenberg (3.25M) so if he's asking for more, than he's gone...
I tend to agree with this but if needed PC could do it with the reasoning that the cap increase has raised the contract required for that calibre of player. It's the same story as Bergy and Krejci.

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