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Rene Bourque OR Michael Cammalleri?

View Poll Results: Who would you rather be on the Habs?
Rene Bourque 219 81.72%
Michael Cammalleri 49 18.28%
Voters: 268. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-01-2012, 01:21 PM
  #151
Jayden72
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Cammy was WAY to much of a Prima-Donna! From the moment the Gionta got the "C" he had changed and turned into a very selfish player! FACT: When Cole went back to Carolina, he invited the whole team to his house for supper, ONE PLAYER didn't go...CAMMY! Not the kind of guy you want in the room!

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02-01-2012, 01:23 PM
  #152
Lafleurs Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayden72 View Post
Cammy was WAY to much of a Prima-Donna! From the moment the Gionta got the "C" he had changed and turned into a very selfish player! FACT: When Cole went back to Carolina, he invited the whole team to his house for supper, ONE PLAYER didn't go...CAMMY! Not the kind of guy you want in the room!
Maybe he just didn't like the food.

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Old
02-01-2012, 01:26 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Focusing on the battle instead of the war. And making a ridiculously hasty decision regarding one of our best assets.
What if Calgary is the only team willing to give up anything good? If you have 4-5 teams bidding on a player(like some UFA's), the risk of waiting is not high but if nobody else would give us anything of value, if the 2nd best offer was to LA for Penner then waiting is a huge risk. At some point you strike when the iron is hot, if you don't maybe Calgary gets Penner and suddenly there is no cap room left.

Keeping an unhappy player around your team and young players is not good either.

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Old
02-01-2012, 01:27 PM
  #154
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sorry double post


Last edited by Jayden72: 02-01-2012 at 01:43 PM.
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Old
02-01-2012, 01:32 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
GM's primary role is to manage assets in a positive direction, taking what the team has in terms of assets (which actually goes beyond just players/picks...) now, and growing them.

By not making Cammy available to all teams, or at least to all potentially interested teams, he didn't gather all of the available information on the value of his asset, thus preventing him from making a decision from the strongest possible position.

even if acquiring Bourque was the main objective and he was willing to take less for Cammy just to get that specific player, by not involving other suitors, he gave himself no leverage in driving up the price.

perhaps it would have meant a minor difference, like not sending the 5th or Rammo, or getting another late pick/prospect our way in the deal, and while these types of minor assets seem insignificant at the superficial level, in the long run they add up.

gauthier has shown a history of this type of decision-making in several of his moves, and imo reflects an arrogant approach to managing the team that is and will continue to cost us.
There is no clear evidence that Cammy wasn't made available...maybe he made him available to 22 teams and not to the 7 he has NTC's to. If Florida is on the NTC then what's the point of calling their GM.

Plus there is another aspect that nobody brought up, if you publicise to the whole NHL that he is available and you make it too obvious, you risk teams thinking you are desperate and HAVE to move him. Same goes for Halak, if you make it obvious that both guys won't sign if the other signs first and you make it public knowledge Halak is moving maybe St Louis knows you are in a tough spot and offers Cole and Schultz instead of Eller and Schultz..

To me a GM telling a reporter he didn't know Halak or Cammy was available is one not doing his job. I would be embarassed to tell a reporter that!

That's like Holmgren telling a reporter in 3 weeks that he had no clue Ruutu was available the day after he gets traded.

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02-01-2012, 01:35 PM
  #156
Lafleurs Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
What if Calgary is the only team willing to give up anything good?
You know, this might have been an interesting argument to make if PG hadn't rushed out and traded Cammy less than 24 hours after his comments. I don't believe for a second that he properly shopped him around. I think he probably had earlier talks with Feaster and was probably thinking about it, then Cammy made his comments and we rushed out beliving we HAD to make some kind of a trade.

Oh and to answer your question, if Calgary is the only team willing to give anything up... then just hang onto Cammaleri. This trade did nothing to help us win the war.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
If you have 4-5 teams bidding on a player(like some UFA's), the risk of waiting is not high but if nobody else would give us anything of value, if the 2nd best offer was to LA for Penner then waiting is a huge risk. At some point you strike when the iron is hot, if you don't maybe Calgary gets Penner and suddenly there is no cap room left.

Keeping an unhappy player around your team and young players is not good either.
Cammy makes one comment and becomes a cancer all of a sudden? Please. The guy made an ill advised comment... okay, happens all the time. Ryan Miller said almost the exact same thing a week later and nobody made a big deal about it. Does Ryan Miller now HAVE to be traded too? Of course not.

Cammy does it though and we turn it into the end of the world. Calmer heads should've prevailed here and we should've taken our time with this. We didn't. We rushed out to get the best deal we could with short term benefits in mind. MT is right. Considering those circumstances the return wasn't half bad. The problem is though of course that this wasn't the kind of return we should've been focused on getting in the first place.

Again, we're focused on winning individual battles rather than the war. It's not that the return for Cammy was horrible (it wasn't.) It's that a sideways move wasn't what we should've been looking for right now. We've got to start being better at managing assets properly.

Again, I see no indication of any kind of long term plan. Maybe last night's loss will finally force management into coming up with one. So far, it's been reactive move after reactive move. And that's why we are where we are.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 02-01-2012 at 01:43 PM.
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Old
02-01-2012, 01:38 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
There is no clear evidence that Cammy wasn't made available...maybe he made him available to 22 teams and not to the 7 he has NTC's to. If Florida is on the NTC then what's the point of calling their GM.
NTC really just means that the player has control, and in Cammy's case it was limited to 7 teams.

That doesn't stop the GM from getting the offer and approaching Cammy with it (wouldn't be the first player to waive his NTC), and more importantly, has no impact on how PG can leverage whatever offer he gets from any team in dealing with the flames.

Cammy, his agent and PG are the only ones who should know what teams are on the list...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Plus there is another aspect that nobody brought up, if you publicise to the whole NHL that he is available and you make it too obvious, you risk teams thinking you are desperate and HAVE to move him. Same goes for Halak, if you make it obvious that both guys won't sign if the other signs first and you make it public knowledge Halak is moving maybe St Louis knows you are in a tough spot and offers Cole and Schultz instead of Eller and Schultz..
this point makes no sense given your previous comment...

somehow making him available to 22 teams is ok, but 30 teams would appear desperate?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
To me a GM telling a reporter he didn't know Halak or Cammy was available is one not doing his job. I would be embarassed to tell a reporter that!

That's like Holmgren telling a reporter in 3 weeks that he had no clue Ruutu was available the day after he gets traded.
so the GM that didn't know a player was available and would have made a better offer is not doing his job, but the one making the trade who gets less for the player he trades is?

makes no sense.

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Old
02-01-2012, 02:30 PM
  #158
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I'd rather have Cammalleri and I base that on history.

There is a pattern developing with the Habs. And that is to let the players who have played integral parts go away. It started with Halak. I was rarely a part of the whole Price / Halak debate but I always wondered what offers the Habs may have gotten for Price. Anyway........the players who I think were great pieces and are now gone................

Halak: no point in rehashing. At the time I knew only one was going to stay so the playoff hero was let go.

MAB: laugh all you want but the guy had heart and provided a dang good slap shot. He was entertaining, loved being a Hab and inexpensive as heck.

Metropolit: I loved his craftiness.

Moore: brought a different dimension to the center position.

Halpern: great faceoff guy. Crafty too.

Hamrlik: was Markov's insurance policy for a couple of years. His tenure was marked with playoffs each year. Right now it looks like pre and post Hamrlik years will be non playoff years.

Lapierre: I still like the guy and never wanted him to go. I'll never forget him getting Orpik so riled up that Orpik forgot the crease. LOL

Spacek: he was a team guy willing to play on his offside. He held down the fort with the above and scored a key playoff goal.

Wiz: because MAB was never given consideration the Habs scrambled for Wiz. And he too had an impact and was a warrior.

Cammalleri: sniper, sniper, sniper. Was sorry to see him go.

Four of those guys dropped the gloves for the Habs even though they sucked at it. I miss all of them and look at their replacements or what I think are replacements and cringe. I'm not suggesting that Gauthier kept all of those guys but none of the above were just scrubs IMO and all played key roles during their tenures. I guess I miss the playoffs already and the unknowns with starting a playoff season.

The present team has some good players and there are some players that can't leave soon enough for me. Many don't like Cammalleri simply because he called his teammates losers or whatever he said. Meanwhile the Habs keep supporting that descript.

Gauthier's managed to tear down a final four roster and skip the playoffs in short order. Not to mention some of the circus in doing so.

Yea.........get rid of Plekanec next. That's the trend.

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Old
02-01-2012, 03:34 PM
  #159
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Reminds me of the Theodore trade a little bit.

Even though we didn't get great "value" in the return (HFboards value =high picks or flashy prospects), we got a serviceable player in return for an overpaid underachiever. So we win the trade.

Not win as how Sather won the Gomez trade, but win as in a minor win, benefiting the team win.

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02-01-2012, 04:22 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
I'd rather have Cammalleri and I base that on history.

There is a pattern developing with the Habs. And that is to let the players who have played integral parts go away. It started with Halak. I was rarely a part of the whole Price / Halak debate but I always wondered what offers the Habs may have gotten for Price. Anyway........the players who I think were great pieces and are now gone................

Halak: no point in rehashing. At the time I knew only one was going to stay so the playoff hero was let go.

MAB: laugh all you want but the guy had heart and provided a dang good slap shot. He was entertaining, loved being a Hab and inexpensive as heck.

Metropolit: I loved his craftiness.

Moore: brought a different dimension to the center position.

Halpern: great faceoff guy. Crafty too.

Hamrlik: was Markov's insurance policy for a couple of years. His tenure was marked with playoffs each year. Right now it looks like pre and post Hamrlik years will be non playoff years.

Lapierre: I still like the guy and never wanted him to go. I'll never forget him getting Orpik so riled up that Orpik forgot the crease. LOL

Spacek: he was a team guy willing to play on his offside. He held down the fort with the above and scored a key playoff goal.

Wiz: because MAB was never given consideration the Habs scrambled for Wiz. And he too had an impact and was a warrior.

Cammalleri: sniper, sniper, sniper. Was sorry to see him go.

Four of those guys dropped the gloves for the Habs even though they sucked at it. I miss all of them and look at their replacements or what I think are replacements and cringe. I'm not suggesting that Gauthier kept all of those guys but none of the above were just scrubs IMO and all played key roles during their tenures. I guess I miss the playoffs already and the unknowns with starting a playoff season.

The present team has some good players and there are some players that can't leave soon enough for me. Many don't like Cammalleri simply because he called his teammates losers or whatever he said. Meanwhile the Habs keep supporting that descript.

Gauthier's managed to tear down a final four roster and skip the playoffs in short order. Not to mention some of the circus in doing so.

Yea.........get rid of Plekanec next. That's the trend.
I agree with your post but surely strait was becoming ,in my opinion, an integral part of the team as well. To me he was core and couldn't believe gainey just letting him go. This management really baffles me.

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02-01-2012, 04:45 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by blueberry View Post
I agree with your post but surely strait was becoming ,in my opinion, an integral part of the team as well. To me he was core and couldn't believe gainey just letting him go. This management really baffles me.
You think paying 4 mil for a guy to play 4th line and on the PP makes sense? That's what he was doing before he left.

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02-08-2012, 08:36 PM
  #162
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Cammalleri-Bourque trade: 25 days later perspective

Montreal Canadiens' GM Pierre Gauthier announced following the team's loss in Boston Thursday that forward Michael Cammalleri had been traded to Calgary.

In exchange, the team receives Rene Bourque, 30, a 6'2" 205 lb left-winger who scored 27 goals last season.

In addition, the team also gave up a fifth round draft choice in 2012 and the rights to a goalie playing in Europe named Karri Ramo.

The Canadiens also receive minor league centreman Patrick Holland, who plays with the Tri-City Americans in the Western Junior league, as well as a second round draft choice in 2013

In my opinion:
WINNING!, the hockey value of Bourque per $ is better then Cammalleri, Bourque's contract is better. What they have in common is that are both trad-able pieces that can be moved in the future for "good value".
The upset of this trade will be Patrick Holland, I am really high on this kid, everywhere I read or hear about him, it's good news, coaches praising his play.He's really talented with nice hands and some good puck handling, he skates fast. He's a having major improvement in terms of points from last year.
Record with Tri-City in the WHL during:
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM +/-
2009-10 Tri-City Americans WHL 59 16 20 36 14 2
2010-11 Tri-City Americans WHL 71 22 40 62 24 10
2011-12 Tri-City Americans WHL 51 20 50 70 36 27
Playoffs: He had 8 pts during 10 game in 2010-2011 playoffs.
+the value of the second pick, that can be traded for a player or good chances of obtaining a decent prospect a la subban loool
Karim Ramo is also a great goalie. His khl performances represent him well, he's a top goalie in the khl! But we have price, and we obtained Ramo for Desjardins, We all knew from day one Kari won't replace Carey and Kari was obtained as a trade asset!
Anyway, give me ur opinion, who u think about it 25 days later just a quick assessment, we all know a trade cannot be judged in 25 days!!

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02-08-2012, 08:37 PM
  #163
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I don't think the Habs will trade Cammy...

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02-08-2012, 08:58 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Maybe he just didn't like the food.
Yep. Mrs. Cole had no BIOSTEEL on the menu. Pissed him right off.


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02-08-2012, 09:03 PM
  #165
Em Ancien
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I'd take Bourque over this year's Cammy, but Bourque isn't really someone I'd have considered picking up with 3 more years on his deal.

Being trigger-happy to trade Cammy might have cost us some good value, not gotten us decent.

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02-08-2012, 09:13 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
I'd take Bourque over this year's Cammy, but Bourque isn't really someone I'd have considered picking up with 3 more years on his deal.

Being trigger-happy to trade Cammy might have cost us some good value, not gotten us decent.
for that, it would have required for Cammy to pick up his game... wich he doesnt want to it seems.

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02-08-2012, 09:16 PM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
I'd take Bourque over this year's Cammy, but Bourque isn't really someone I'd have considered picking up with 3 more years on his deal.

Being trigger-happy to trade Cammy might have cost us some good value, not gotten us decent.
The three years left on Bourque's contract is irrelevant because Bourque's salary is in line with his performance. Cammy's cap hit was ridiculously high for his amount of production.

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02-08-2012, 09:20 PM
  #168
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Yep. Mrs. Cole had no BIOSTEEL on the menu. Pissed him right off.




oddy i can see that happening

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02-08-2012, 09:28 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
for that, it would have required for Cammy to pick up his game... wich he doesnt want to it seems.
He's got a rep though, and has been money in the POs. I assume some GM would've been suckered into giving up something of good value for him, considering the going rate for top 6 forwards is quite high. Since he has 2 more years after that, we would've probably gotten something really good in terms of futures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
The three years left on Bourque's contract is irrelevant because Bourque's salary is in line with his performance. Cammy's cap hit was ridiculously high for his amount of production.
The point isn't so much that Bourque is 'worth his money'. I wouldn't sign him as an FA, period. So yeah, we got better cap value out of the player swap, but we still got someone on the iffy side.

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02-08-2012, 09:36 PM
  #170
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For the amount Cammy was scoring, he wasn't worth the money since he doesn't really bring much else to the team. Bourque brings some physicality and isnt afraid to go into the corners.

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02-08-2012, 09:38 PM
  #171
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Cammy keeps this up he will be a gomez sized anchor, people should be praising Gauthiers name for ditching him. The 2nd alone is awesome just for the sole reason Calgary is bound to blow it up next year, it is practically a 1st round pick.

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02-08-2012, 10:00 PM
  #172
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That trade is an absolute steal. For now the problem is that Bourque has nobody to feed off from like he did in Calgary with Iginla. When Gio and and his million shots come back, Bourque will be a lot more on the offense. I love the trade.

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02-08-2012, 10:17 PM
  #173
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Ill take bourque for the cap value. Cammy wasn't fitting in and he isn't lighting the world on fire in Calgary either

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02-08-2012, 10:20 PM
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
The three years left on Bourque's contract is irrelevant because Bourque's salary is in line with his performance. Cammy's cap hit was ridiculously high for his amount of production.

Explain how Bourque's salary is in line with his performance and Cammy gets paid more because of his production but yet only has 4 more points and 4 less goals than $3 million dollar Bourque??? That logic doesn't make sense to me!!!

If Cammy is worth the $6 million he makes, shouldn't he have almost 30 goals and closer to 50-60 points???? I know a lot of players around the NHL that have more points than Cammalleri and don't make near as much money as he does!!

Sorry....but I'll take a hard working, physical 6'3 winger like Bourque over a soft, overpaid primadonna like Cammalleri anyday of the weak!!!

Yeah...Cammy might have been a beast for the Habs in the playoffs....but what good is that when he won't give an honest effort all season long and help his team make the playoffs???

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02-08-2012, 10:21 PM
  #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
He's got a rep though, and has been money in the POs. I assume some GM would've been suckered into giving up something of good value for him, considering the going rate for top 6 forwards is quite high. Since he has 2 more years after that, we would've probably gotten something really good in terms of futures.
for all we know, the rep he has isnt the we think he does...

it's two more years at SEVEN Mil...

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