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Semin proposals

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Old
02-08-2012, 08:03 PM
  #76
deckercky
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Originally Posted by CB Joe View Post
Yes, unless he signs a long term deal for 7+ seasons, I think there will be at least one team who offers him 7M or more on a short term deal.
At this point, a 2 or so year deal for $7M per seems like a good idea for both parties for any suitor of Semin. No a rental deal, but not so long that it handicaps teams if there isn't a good fit.

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02-08-2012, 08:37 PM
  #77
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I find it amusing that the consensus among hfboarders about Semin is that he's a lazy, one-dimensional, inconsistent player with limited trade value... and that he'll command a huge contract on the free agent market. If he were as bad as people on here think he is, he'd get half what he's making now.

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02-08-2012, 08:54 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Semin is hardly one dimensional. That just tells me you don't watch Semin.
Washington is one of the only teams I watch in the East actually. Semin is a very lazy player at times, Chris Stewartish.

He may back check from time to time but is hardly effective.

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02-08-2012, 08:55 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Semin is hardly one dimensional. That just tells me you don't watch Semin.
Really? What else does do? PK? Face-offs? Play solid defense? Leadership? Nope. Yes, he's one dimensional.

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02-08-2012, 09:01 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
I find it amusing that the consensus among hfboarders about Semin is that he's a lazy, one-dimensional, inconsistent player with limited trade value... and that he'll command a huge contract on the free agent market. If he were as bad as people on here think he is, he'd get half what he's making now.
I find it amusing that Stastny is an overpaid, inconsistent, past his prime 2nd line center with limited trade value. At least here.

I think we could both agree neither team's player is respected the way they should be. But the difference is Semin's public personality and nationality give him the spotlight over a guy like Stastny, which makes it easy to perceive things differently with Semin.

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02-08-2012, 09:43 PM
  #81
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I'm kind of curious, did he and Varly get along in Washington?
Any Caps fans know the answer? I'm still waiting, your lucky I'm a patient guy

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02-08-2012, 10:28 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Really? What else does do? PK? Face-offs? Play solid defense? Leadership? Nope. Yes, he's one dimensional.
Semin doesn't PK this season, but he has in the past. He was actually one of our best PKers. He is in fact pretty solid defensively, he can play either wing, and he is a pretty good playmaker. I'd say he's a versatile player.
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
I find it amusing that Stastny is an overpaid, inconsistent, past his prime 2nd line center with limited trade value. At least here.

I think we could both agree neither team's player is respected the way they should be. But the difference is Semin's public personality and nationality give him the spotlight over a guy like Stastny, which makes it easy to perceive things differently with Semin.
Stastny would be a 2nd line center on the Caps squad, behind Backstrom. His cap hit is only 100k less than Backstrom's, which given his production makes him overpaid as far as Washington is concerned. Avs don't spend to the cap, so Stastny's contract is not a big burden for them. It's a different story for Washington.

Seriously, this thread has reached its logical conclusion. Neither group of fans likes this proposal, let's just stop there.

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02-08-2012, 11:58 PM
  #83
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Semin , 1st round Was schultz

what could this package land possibly carter?

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02-09-2012, 12:01 AM
  #84
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I really feel this is the basis for a decent swap. Washington adds a conditional 1st (if Semin leaves Colorado as an UFA, they get Washington's 1st round pick) which becomes a 2nd or 3rd if he is resigned. Simple enough. I could totally see something around these two occur.

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02-09-2012, 12:01 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Brave Sir Robin View Post
Semin doesn't PK this season, but he has in the past. He was actually one of our best PKers. He is in fact pretty solid defensively, he can play either wing, and he is a pretty good playmaker. I'd say he's a versatile player.

Stastny would be a 2nd line center on the Caps squad, behind Backstrom. His cap hit is only 100k less than Backstrom's, which given his production makes him overpaid as far as Washington is concerned. Avs don't spend to the cap, so Stastny's contract is not a big burden for them. It's a different story for Washington.

Seriously, this thread has reached its logical conclusion. Neither group of fans likes this proposal, let's just stop there.
Since the thread is not locked I will ask this question?

Is there anything beyond of obvious untouchables on the Avs (Duchene, Stastny, O'Reilly, Landeskog, Johnson, Varly) that would be worth trading Semin for?

Something like Jones + Elliott + 2nd?

Make no mistake Jones's value is obvious but I start with him as a replacement on wing. If he does not work you sign another guy in free agency. Elliott + 2nd is the meat of the proposal because if Elliott works out you could trade Green and has been talked about or trade Elliott himself. 2nd is a 2nd rounder.. Honestly I don't know that you would get a more sense/value package.

Obvious risk for us would be that he walks.. Risk for you is that he walks and you get nothing. Our center depth and cap space also makes us a favorite for signing him as a UFA. Some would argue just wait.. But obviously we need help now not a year from now in my and some (but not all) fans opinions.

Just wait for you could be just as potentially dangerous..

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02-09-2012, 12:03 AM
  #86
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No it wont, theres my contribution.

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02-09-2012, 12:04 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by mapleleafs81 View Post
what could this package land possibly carter?
Semin means nothing to the last place CBJ since he wont resign. The 1st + Schultz is not close I would assume.

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02-09-2012, 12:05 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Since the thread is not locked I will ask this question?

Is there anything beyond of obvious untouchables on the Avs (Duchene, Stastny, O'Reilly, Landeskog, Johnson, Varly) that would be worth trading Semin for?

Something like Jones + Elliott + 2nd?

Make no mistake Jones's value is obvious but I start with him as a replacement on wing. If he does not work you sign another guy in free agency. Elliott + 2nd is the meat of the proposal because if Elliott works out you could trade Green and has been talked about or trade Elliott himself. 2nd is a 2nd rounder.. Honestly I don't know that you would get a more sense/value package.

Obvious risk for us would be that he walks.. Risk for you is that he walks and you get nothing. Our center depth and cap space also makes us a favorite for signing him as a UFA. Some would argue just wait.. But obviously we need help now not a year from now in my and some (but not all) fans opinions.

Just wait for you could be just as potentially dangerous..
i wouldnt say stastny is untouchable others though are....... but this deals helps both sides logical reasoning

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02-09-2012, 12:08 AM
  #89
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Last thing Columbus wants is to replace a player that doesn't want to be there with another one, except this one can leave at the end of the season.

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02-09-2012, 12:10 AM
  #90
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Nooo

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02-09-2012, 12:13 AM
  #91
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If you want Carter it is going to take Col 2012 1st, Was 2012 1st, Schultz, and Holtby. Columbus may have to add.

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02-09-2012, 12:14 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by mapleleafs81 View Post
i wouldnt say stastny is untouchable others though are....... but this deals helps both sides logical reasoning
I would say hes almost untouchable. Only way I would move him is for two top 6 potential forwards. One winger and one center.. Think we will get that? Probably not.. Which makes it not worth moving him.

I don't think Alex Semin's value is as low as everyone else but him being a UFA and under producing makes his value obviously less than what Carter or Richards got. Which is why I offer a roster player + good prospect + pick but not a Roster player + 1st + top prospect...

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02-09-2012, 12:41 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Playing with better linemates, questionable work ethic, less points, and soon to be UFA somehow has more value?
better linemates? perrault and knuble/chimera/johansson are better linemates?

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02-09-2012, 12:46 AM
  #94
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better linemates? perrault and knuble/chimera/johansson are better linemates?
Johansson is.. There is the UFA part as well?

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02-09-2012, 01:10 AM
  #95
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better linemates? perrault and knuble/chimera/johansson are better linemates?
Johansson definitely is. I know he's to old now, but Knuble a few years ago was too. Not to mention that Stastny plays against other teams best defensman. Something that Semin is sheltered from.

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02-09-2012, 01:14 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Really? What else does do? PK? Face-offs? Play solid defense? Leadership? Nope. Yes, he's one dimensional.
Funny you mention PK, because this relates very much to what I was saying earlier about Semin not being respected by the coaching staff. A few years ago, he was getting time on the PK, and was doing phenomenally. There was one year where the Caps scored more shorthanded goals while Semin was on the PK than they gave up. Then Bruce suddenly decided not to give him PK time any more, for no apparent reason. Semin seemed to enjoy the extra responsibility, and was excelling at it. I think this is a major reason why Semin feels disrespected by the coaching staff. Probably also why he's been playing way better since Bruce was fired.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Since the thread is not locked I will ask this question?

Is there anything beyond of obvious untouchables on the Avs (Duchene, Stastny, O'Reilly, Landeskog, Johnson, Varly) that would be worth trading Semin for?

Something like Jones + Elliott + 2nd?

Make no mistake Jones's value is obvious but I start with him as a replacement on wing. If he does not work you sign another guy in free agency. Elliott + 2nd is the meat of the proposal because if Elliott works out you could trade Green and has been talked about or trade Elliott himself. 2nd is a 2nd rounder.. Honestly I don't know that you would get a more sense/value package.

Obvious risk for us would be that he walks.. Risk for you is that he walks and you get nothing. Our center depth and cap space also makes us a favorite for signing him as a UFA. Some would argue just wait.. But obviously we need help now not a year from now in my and some (but not all) fans opinions.

Just wait for you could be just as potentially dangerous..
I don't think there's a deal to be made here if Stastny's not available. The Caps biggest need is secondary scoring, which happens to also be Colorado's biggest need. You guys don't really have any prospects coming up that would fill that role, and we already have your 1st. If the Caps do elect to trade Semin, he'll be the best forward on the market, so his value would be more than what the Avs could put together without including one of your untouchables. There are plenty of western teams like Detroit, Nashville, LA, maybe even Minnesota who could put together a better package.

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02-09-2012, 01:23 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Johansson definitely is. I know he's to old now, but Knuble a few years ago was too. Not to mention that Stastny plays against other teams best defensman. Something that Semin is sheltered from.
Johansson is a second year pro, and much of his offense is as a product of Semin, while very little goes the other way. That said, he's probably the best linemate Semin's every had. Knuble wasn't playing with Semin a few years ago, he was playing almost exclusively with Ovechkin and Backstrom. Semin's only gotten to play with Knuble this year, when he's been a shadow of his former self.

If Semin's line gets sheltered from tough defensemen, it's because the quality of Semin's linemates essentially make it a one man line. You don't need elite defenders to shut down one guy who's getting very little help from his teammates.

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02-09-2012, 01:27 AM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Since the thread is not locked I will ask this question?

Is there anything beyond of obvious untouchables on the Avs (Duchene, Stastny, O'Reilly, Landeskog, Johnson, Varly) that would be worth trading Semin for?

Something like Jones + Elliott + 2nd?


Make no mistake Jones's value is obvious but I start with him as a replacement on wing. If he does not work you sign another guy in free agency. Elliott + 2nd is the meat of the proposal because if Elliott works out you could trade Green and has been talked about or trade Elliott himself. 2nd is a 2nd rounder.. Honestly I don't know that you would get a more sense/value package.

Obvious risk for us would be that he walks.. Risk for you is that he walks and you get nothing. Our center depth and cap space also makes us a favorite for signing him as a UFA. Some would argue just wait.. But obviously we need help now not a year from now in my and some (but not all) fans opinions.

Just wait for you could be just as potentially dangerous..
I think you can answer your own question. Let me put it this way: how does a trade like Jones + Elliott + 2nd for Semin make Washington better?

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02-09-2012, 01:33 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
Johansson is a second year pro, and much of his offense is as a product of Semin, while very little goes the other way. That said, he's probably the best linemate Semin's every had. Knuble wasn't playing with Semin a few years ago, he was playing almost exclusively with Ovechkin and Backstrom. Semin's only
gotten to play with Knuble this year, when he's been a shadow of his former self.


If Semin's line gets sheltered from tough defensemen, it's because the quality of Semin's linemates
essentially make it a one man line. You don't need elite defenders to shut down one guy who's getting very little help from his teammates.
Everything you just said can be said for Semin can be said for Stastny and more. Until recently. Johansson is still better than Porter/Kobasew/Winnik. You say he's a second year pro? Well. Porter shouldn't even be in the NHL. Stastny was basically a one man line as well, just against better defense.


My point still stands. Semin has had marginally better linemates against worse defense pairings.

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02-09-2012, 01:44 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Brave Sir Robin View Post
I think you can answer your own question. Let me put it this way: how does a trade like Jones + Elliott + 2nd for Semin make Washington better?
I do realize it's a somewhat weak offer but on the other side Semin's risk makes it about right value wise. Also some good points above about Semin's production and line mates.

Here is how it could make your team better. (This is an option we do not have.)

Losing Semin may well hurt your playoff chances but losing him in the off season for nothing and making the Playoffs does not really help your team all that much either.

1.) Your draft pick will be more of an impact player.

2.) You don't have the depth even with Semin to go deep in the Playoffs vs teams like BOS/PHIL/NY

3.) Losing Semin for nothing is unacceptable and you will not get JACK in the off season for him.

4.) Jones could probably be resigned for cheap (around 3M) and continue playing on your second or third line.

5.) This is how you make your team better with what I offered.. Your pick may just end up being a top 10 pick by the end of the year. Ours even if we make the 1st round will probably still be at least mid 1st round.. (around 17th) because we will probably not make it past the 1st round but want the Playoff experience now more than anything. Finally you trade one 1st + 2nd + Elliott or Player depending on preference to move into the top 5. You might be able to pry a top 2 pick out of CBJ or EDM with that sort of package because of how much they need a top defensman now and not later.

You still end up with a another mid round 1st and two second rounders this year or next year. While possibly getting a young impact player ready to step in right now.

Honestly if you think you can do better go for it.. All the other teams will be taking UFA and caps space into account while we only need to take the UFA factor into account. What do you think is more important for DET? Replacing their retiring franchise D or spending their cap space on a under performing UFA winger?


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