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Marc-Andre Bourdon vs Erik Gustafsson

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Old
02-08-2012, 08:04 AM
  #1
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Marc-Andre Bourdon vs Erik Gustafsson

Going forward, if you had to keep once who would you choose and why?

Bourdon
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=6620


Gustafsson
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=6718

Mods.. if you could make a poll with two options. Thanks in advance

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Old
02-08-2012, 08:12 AM
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dats81
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Bourdon.
Because his style of play fits better to the position that is up for grabs (third pairing). Decent size and not afraid of using his body.

Gustafsson has more upside but he is just another smallish puck moving defenseman on a team that already has too many of that kind. I have a feeling that he will walk in the steps of D. Syvret.

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02-08-2012, 08:21 AM
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Jtown
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Gus has top 4 skill and talent.

MAB gets beat so often and he isnt strong enough or fast enough to make up for it.

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02-08-2012, 08:36 AM
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Tough one for me.

Gustafsson seems to lack confidence out there. I thought he would show more.

Bourdon does not hesitate, but probably should sometimes. He makes bone head decisions at both ends. Having said that vs expectations he has been great this year.

I think both of their rookie errors do not show as strongly because all of Carle, Coburn and Meszaros unfortunately make similar errors.

Gus also looks mini out there. Bourdon has more physical tools, although (obviously) Gus is a better skater.

I would say both have #4 potential on this team. Bourdon has more PK potential and Gus has PP potential.

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02-08-2012, 08:39 AM
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dats81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Gus has top 4 skill and talent.

MAB gets beat so often and he isnt strong enough or fast enough to make up for it.
Even if he has that talent in him, I doubt that he will ever get a real chance to show it with the Flyers.

He plays on the third pairing with Mesz, who is a good puck mover himself and likes to join the rush. It's just difficult to make an impact in that situation. If they would put him with a responsible stay at home type of defenseman (???) things may turn in his favour...

Bourdon on the other hand does not really have any pressure to make it on the scoreboard. He can just settle in and try not to get exposed by the opposing forwards.

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02-08-2012, 08:48 AM
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From a fan of a different team that watches the Flyers often...

I don't think I've ever seen a D more overrated by a fanbase than Erik Gustafsson. Everyone keeps calling him Timonen-lite. He might want to spend some time getting a little bit stronger, because he gets hammered on the forecheck. He is a garden variety D Man, but to read some Flyer fans talk he is the second coming of Timonen and Lidstrom rolled into 1. His stats were padded by a blowout game this year he played in vs Columbus.

Bourdon on the other hand has all the innate talents teams look for in young DMen. He is rugged and tough and makes a great first pass. As someone else said, he never hesitates which can be good and bad. He does have a high hockey IQ. Sure he makes mistakes but what young D doesn't? The problem is a lot of you guys want him to play like a 4 million dollar D, but he is a 22 year old rookie just learning the game.

The coaches seem to trust Bourdon more than Gustafsson too.

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02-08-2012, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by columbiaNW View Post
From a fan of a different team that watches the Flyers often...

I don't think I've ever seen a D more overrated by a fanbase than Erik Gustafsson. Everyone keeps calling him Timonen-lite. He might want to spend some time getting a little bit stronger, because he gets hammered on the forecheck. He is a garden variety D Man, but to read some Flyer fans talk he is the second coming of Timonen and Lidstrom rolled into 1. His stats were padded by a blowout game this year he played in vs Columbus.

Bourdon on the other hand has all the innate talents teams look for in young DMen. He is rugged and tough and makes a great first pass. As someone else said, he never hesitates which can be good and bad. He does have a high hockey IQ. Sure he makes mistakes but what young D doesn't? The problem is a lot of you guys want him to play like a 4 million dollar D, but he is a 22 year old rookie just learning the game.

The coaches seem to trust Bourdon more than Gustafsson too.
Spot on.

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02-08-2012, 09:04 AM
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Bourdon

I find Gustafsson way over rated and everytime I hear a fan called him "Timonen-like" I was to slap them. He may potentially have more upside than Bourdon, but I doubt he'll ever reach it unless he get a lot stronger. I would like to see him get some PP time though because from what I've heard he was a good QB in the AHL. Give him some of Carle's PP time so we can see what he can do. Being paired with Mez also doesnt help either since he likes to jump into the rush.

Bourdon IMO is a fine bottom pairing defenseman. He makes some mistake and gets beat, but he's a rookie. He fits the bottom pairing defenseman mold better than Gus which is why I think he's a better fit on this team.

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02-08-2012, 09:11 AM
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I don't think that either one of them will be more than a bottom pairing dman if they manage to stick in the NHL, so the answer would depend a lot on how the rest of the defense is made up. With the way we're set up right now, I'd choose Bourdon. Having Timonen, Carle and Gustafsson on defense at the same time isn't ideal in my mind. If we replace Carle with a shutdown dman in the summer, things might change.

They were both pretty decent yesterday. I hope they can keep it up down the stretch.

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02-08-2012, 01:40 PM
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turkinaa
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If both of them could be mashed together (Gustadon or Bourafsson) we might have a complete player, but at this time they are both too incomplete (they're both rookies and they need playing time to mature).

I remember meeting MAB during the rookie camp after he was drafted and was injured, which made me wonder what his ranking was pre-draft (to see if he fell during the draft) and found this thread:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=526804

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02-08-2012, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkinaa View Post
If both of them could be mashed together (Gustadon or Bourafsson) we might have a complete player, but at this time they are both too incomplete (they're both rookies and they need playing time to mature).

I remember meeting MAB during the rookie camp after he was drafted and was injured, which made me wonder what his ranking was pre-draft (to see if he fell during the draft) and found this thread:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=526804
heh, offensive defenseman?

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02-08-2012, 01:58 PM
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Bourdon to me has been getting more and more exposed recently but I do think he's the safer bet. At worst Bourdon can be a 6/7 defender. Gustafsson has the tools, and certainly the higher ceiling than Bourdon so we'll see.

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02-08-2012, 02:04 PM
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Both are overrated around here.

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02-08-2012, 02:09 PM
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Keep them both, get rid of Carle and Lilja and bring in someone else for the second pairing.

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02-08-2012, 02:35 PM
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I'm not big on Bourdon. I'd keep Gus

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02-08-2012, 02:37 PM
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I like how Gustafsson is somehow overrated but Bourdon isnt. The Timonen-lite thing was said by one person and it got blown out of proportion.

I'd take Gustafsson obviously. Better passer, skating, and speed. Bourdon just looks so slow out there. And to the guy who said Lavy trusts Bourdon more. How are you coming to this conclusion? Because one plays on the 2nd pairing and the other the 3rd? If anything Gustafsson looked like he was ready to be a mainstay during his first stint. He was average just around 20 minutes a night. They play just around the same minutes and same number of shifts.

In the end, I think Gustafsson has more upside, while Bourdon will be a #6/7 guy.

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02-08-2012, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I like how Gustafsson is somehow overrated but Bourdon isnt. The Timonen-lite thing was said by one person and it got blown out of proportion.

I'd take Gustafsson obviously. Better passer, skating, and speed. Bourdon just looks so slow out there. And to the guy who said Lavy trusts Bourdon more. How are you coming to this conclusion? Because one plays on the 2nd pairing and the other the 3rd? If anything Gustafsson looked like he was ready to be a mainstay during his first stint. He was average just around 20 minutes a night. They play just around the same minutes and same number of shifts.

In the end, I think Gustafsson has more upside, while Bourdon will be a #6/7 guy.
I think the Timonen comparison was from Homer if I remember correctly. Just saying.

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02-08-2012, 05:02 PM
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Lappy has used it as well, however he stressed that it didn't mean that he believed Gustafsson would become as good as Timonen though, but that he resembled him in style, iirc.

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02-08-2012, 05:18 PM
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I like MAB and am quite willing to put up with some of the crazy rookie mistakes he makes now and then....He has things to learn,but i like his aggressive style and really like the way he will not hesitate to jump in on the offense .He can look horrible at times,as can veterans like Carle, Coburn, Kimmo, etc, But i see him becoming one of our better studs on D as time goes on.....I have not seen Gus enough yet to really make a decision on him overall, but i like MAB better at this stage.

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02-08-2012, 05:29 PM
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I like Bourdons physicality but Im more confident when Gustafsson has the puck.

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02-08-2012, 06:09 PM
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Bourdon was drafted to be a offensive d man but has changed to become more physical which I feel is what we need at the present time. I still like Gustaffson as well. Keep both next year and have Lily as a "reliable" fill in.

Timmonen-Coburn
Meszaros-Gustaffson
Bourdon-? (2012 draft, July 1st, trade deadline etc)
Lilja

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02-08-2012, 08:15 PM
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Gus, he's only played 94 pro games and he just turned 23. As most have said he's got the higher potential but hasn't been given much time to reach it. MAB is actually younger and doesn't have much more pro experience but I'd still chose Gus.

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02-08-2012, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Gus has top 4 skill and talent.

MAB gets beat so often and he isnt strong enough or fast enough to make up for it.
I agree.

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02-08-2012, 09:15 PM
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I liked gustaffson a lot earlier in the year but since he's been back I really haven't been impressed at all.

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02-09-2012, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I like how Gustafsson is somehow overrated but Bourdon isnt. The Timonen-lite thing was said by one person and it got blown out of proportion.
Is this a serious question? I ask genuinely, because I don't know if you 'really' follow the Flyers. As an aside, your emotional post is a little unnecessary. But I will explain how Gustafsson is the single most overrated prospect you guys have, while MAB is not...

Coming into this season, MAB was an afterthought in this organization. He was likely going to go the way of Kevin Marshall and get traded for an expiring AHL deal. He was knocked out in a fight last year, and finished the year in the ECHL. Suffice it to say, he was NOT in the Flyers long term plans.

Conversely, Erik Gustafsson came into this season with the hype of "being the next Timonen", which is not messageboard myth. Erik Gustafsson himself told the media that Holmgren and Don Luce told him SPECIFICALLY they envisioned him their next Timonen. All we read all summer and coming into the year was how "Gus" had top pairing talent, and all other cliche-isms that get thrown around. Since coming back from the wrist injury, Gustafsson looks like a scared little boy playing the game amongst men. He shies away from contact and gets rammed at ever opportunity. Forwards love him on the ice because they know they are getting the puck back.

Gustafsson was just benched for Lilja last week, but Andreas Lilja sucks at life so badly that the coaches had to get Gustafsson back in.

Going back to MAB, he took the most of an opportunity he was given, which was essentially he last shot at playing pro hockey. He changed his diet, practice habits and dedication to the game, and he is playing a bigger role for your team than ever expected. I call that underdog.

I know you like to throw around stats, so I want you to break Gustafsson's stats into two parts, pre-injury and post. Pre, he played 5 games. His stats were grossly padded by the blowout game v CBJ where he played over 20 minutes. Since coming back from injury he has not played as many minutes NOR as many shifts as MAB. I will post the splits later today, to show how wrong you are here.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter to me who you prefer, I was providing an outsider's perspective. Your emotional post was a little strange, if not misplaced. I will tell you this, opposing teams love seeing "Gus" on the ice because they know a turnover is about to happen. Brandon Prust told a NY reporter that MAB was a one of the toughest young kids in the league, and I was told he said similar in the HBO series. Prust has no reason to say anything like that if it isn't true.

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