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What if Gauthier keeps his job?

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Old
02-09-2012, 10:24 AM
  #51
Jack Bourdain
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I'll dip my hat in and say that I'd like Geoff Molson to bring in Pierre McGuire. I agree with his views on hockey and what type of team and coach would bring success to Montreal. Even if he busts, I'd like to give him a chance and show us what he's capable of. He always says the right thing, and in a very Obama-ish way, would bring much needed change to our organization.

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02-09-2012, 10:24 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Dekar View Post
Classic case of fans thinking they have any control over this team. Gauthier will be keeping his job, no question.
Individualy, fans don't have any control over the team. But as a group, they do.

More empty seat, less momaribilia sold, more boo's, and everybody will be fired. Image is everything.

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02-09-2012, 10:26 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Unlike most posters I'm sure Molson doesn't blame Gauthier for moves made before he was GM. The Gomez trade was made by Gainey not Gauthier...as much as some people try to find ways to blame him, I'm sure Gainey knew the NHL had a salary cap and that Gomez had a huge cap hit.
You do know the Gauthier was Gainey's assistant when the trade was made. Gauthier had to have some form of input.

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02-09-2012, 10:29 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by juve View Post
You do know the Gauthier was Gainey's assistant when the trade was made. Gauthier had to have some form of input.
don't waste your time with him, he still believes Gainey made all those moves by himself not listening to any of his head pro scouts opinions. Gainey watched all the players he signed play that year

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02-09-2012, 10:30 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
Patients brother. We will be ok in a few years. Just been a really unlucky year really.
Sit back and ponder all these one point losses, injuries, media garbage, fluky goals, etc.

Just a bad year is all.
which I'm ok with, but we need this top end pick which I'm not sure why you seem to be against it

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02-09-2012, 10:31 AM
  #56
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i think he will stay, at least for another year.

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02-09-2012, 10:34 AM
  #57
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Will not surprise me if he stays at all. Hopefully he doesn't screw up by trading away our 1st rounder for Jeff Carter.

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02-09-2012, 10:37 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
which I'm ok with, but we need this top end pick which I'm not sure why you seem to be against it
Well as we know as well rounded hockey fans. The stars have to be aligned perfectly for you to get said pick. And we both know you have NO gaurantee that said player will be an impact player. If we were to trade say a Pleks + for J Carter or Getzlaf and fill in one of the two things this team is missing. This is more of a gaurantee than hoping your star aligned pick turns into this superstar everyone here beleives will come out of the pick. What if he turns into Taylor Hall ( remember the hype? ).

I would rather aim for what we need through already proven NHL players is all.

Besides anything that T Marinaro or any other want to be media member believes. I always believe the opposite.

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02-09-2012, 10:41 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
He was pro scout & assistant manager under Gainey. Moves that Bobsled made with Gauthier as his Consigliere :

Ribeiro for Niniima.
Bulaj or Pleks (you make the pick Slaths) for Kovalev.
Garon for Bonk & Huet
McDonagh, Higgins, Valetanko for Gomez
the proposed trade of Pleks, Higgins & Subban for Lecavalier (nixed by Bettman)
a 1st round pick for one year of Tanguay
the advice to sign Gionta, Cammy & Spacek on a team that was already small & soft.
I see, so you can't really find anything wrong with the trades that Gauthier has made, so you have to blame him for moves that GM Gainey made? And go one step further to moves that never actually happened, like Plekanec-for-Kovalev (which still would have been a good deal) and Fantasyland Lecavalier deal (hint: the actual rumour had Gorges in the deal, and of course was only a rumour).

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Originally Posted by onice View Post
The countless draft picks squandered to patch up holes.
Fortunately I can count. If you want to complain about 4th and 5th round picks for the likes of Sopel and Mara, go ahead, let me know when the players we gave up actually do something. Same with that 7th rounder for Nokelainen that no one will ever lose sleep over. I'll give you that 2nd round picks are valuable, so let's look at 2nd round picks given up:

2nd round pick for Moore
2nd round pick for Wizniewski

Both fantastic deals as far as I can tell. Moore was key to that playoff run and The Wiz was a hero for 50 games in Mtl, earning a $33 million contract for his troubles. Too bad he'll never get those two picks back. Oh wait, he did:

Fischer for 2nd round pick
Cammy for Bourque plus 2nd round pick

Fischer was a complete bust but thanks to a loophole that got turned into a 2nd rounder, which was the exact same pick given up for Wiz. And since you seem to be railing against signing Cammy to a team that was small, then you must be overjoyed at parlaying him into a much bigger Bourque plus one of these magical 2nd round picks that apparently have so much value. So really, we're no worse off in the draft pick department.

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02-09-2012, 11:21 AM
  #60
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Depends what he does at the deadline and the rest of the year. If he keeps our core intact, gets some draft picks/prospects and manages to resign our key players to decent contracts then I'll be happy if they keep him.

I don't think he's as bad as most people think he is.

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Old
02-09-2012, 11:27 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
Whitesnake,

i have a different take on what happened with the coaching change. I think The Ghost, Bobsled & Molson got together and made the decision together. I wasn't there but I think the firing was Gainey's idea - it has his fingerprints all over it - and Molson agreed with it and probably suggested Cunneyworth. If he didn't suggest it he jumped on it when Bobsled brought it up. And I think Gauthier probably mentioned there's going to be a crap storm if we do that. The other two probably said we can handle it.

Now why do I think that? Well, what's the alternative? Gauthier & Gainey come up with the brilliant move go to Molson and he says hey guys we live in a French province. Bob & Pierre reply don't worry we'll throw up a smoke screen and Molson says okay.

Then when the crap hit the fan, do you really think Molson would have kept Gauthier around. If this was Gauthier's idea to replace Martin with an unilingual coach do you really think Molson would have tolerated such incompetence for this long? If that was the case well, Martin was fired in Dec, I think. Molson would have interviewed & hired a new GM by now. No way Gauthier would have lasted this long if the Cunneyworth debacle was his idea.

I think that was Molson's idea or he was in on it and wholeheartedly gave the go ahead and I'd even risk saying that Gauthier was against it. That's why he's still around.

You forget martin & Gauthier have worked together a number of times. I'd even risk saying they're friends. Also, the slow, drawn out way that martin was fired tells me that Gauthier didn't want to let him go. I have a feeling that Gainey - maybe with Molson - wanted to fire Martin in the summer. Gauthier stuck up for his coach. So they compromised. They hired two coaches to replace one coach - Muller. Three weeks into the season, Gainey & probably Molson smelled blood and wanted Martin's head. Gauthier said give him more time and they compromised on Pearns. In Dec Gauthier was given an ultimatum, get rid of Martin. This is assumption on my part but it's the only thing that makes sense with the way things have worked out. Gauthier may not be the sharpest tool in the shed but I see him as a loyal person. And no freakin way does he put an unilingual coach in place.
I like this. Martin and Gauthier were long time friend actually and while it's all speculation, as a business standpoint, your take is very interesting and I wouldn't be surprise that this is what really happened since even Martin said that the day before, they were working on the Devils and the long Christmas tour and everything was fine.

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Old
02-09-2012, 11:32 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGG View Post
2nd round pick for Moore
2nd round pick for Wizniewski

Both fantastic deals as far as I can tell. Moore was key to that playoff run and The Wiz was a hero for 50 games in Mtl, earning a $33 million contract for his troubles. Too bad he'll never get those two picks back. Oh wait, he did:

Fischer for 2nd round pick
Cammy for Bourque plus 2nd round pick

Fischer was a complete bust but thanks to a loophole that got turned into a 2nd rounder, which was the exact same pick given up for Wiz. And since you seem to be railing against signing Cammy to a team that was small, then you must be overjoyed at parlaying him into a much bigger Bourque plus one of these magical 2nd round picks that apparently have so much value. So really, we're no worse off in the draft pick department.
I'm always stunned with that kind of analysis. Oh wait, he got the 2 picks back....See, you have also the right to have MORE than 1 pick in a round and actually ADD to the picks you already have. And if you call those deals FANTASTIC, how do you call the Chris Kelly one from Boston? Incredibly awesomly marvelously impossibly great? A guy that played just the same kind of role Moore did and then, Boston paid off that 2nd rounder they gave by something like KEEPING THE GUY. Wizniewski did good yet we couldn't keep him due to money. Gauthier's choice, a good choice based on how much money he got. But the Moore trade? Because of what whooping money he was asking? It made no sense to get Moore for a 2nd rounder, but probably even less sense to let him go since he was a perfect fit for the team we had. Oh and don't tell me you are giving credit to Gauthier for the Fischer pick. I mean, this is where, at one point, an analysis like that make you think that whether things he did, he did great. When a guy is credited for letting Fischer go....

And again, I won't repeat enough, despite the question marks I had, Timmins is OUR GREATEST ASSET. And instead of letting him work his magic with 2 or 3 2nd rounders, we are satisfied 'cause we have replaced the picks we got rid of?


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Old
02-09-2012, 11:36 AM
  #63
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If he stays it will limit even more the choice of the organisation for a new head coach

People might not like them but theres no way fiery guys like roy, hartley, therrien..... will be hired by Mr Gauthier

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02-09-2012, 11:36 AM
  #64
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I want him gone, but I'm afraid Timmins will be let go if another GM comes in. Unless Timmins himself becomes the new GM.

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02-09-2012, 11:38 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by GordonGraham View Post
If he stays it will limit even more the choice of the organisation for a new head coach

People might not like them but theres no way fiery guys like roy, hartley, therrien..... will be hired by Mr Gauthier
Cunneyworth was clearly Gauthier's guy. Nobody knows anything for sure, but if it was only for Gauthier, you can bet a whole lot that Cunneyworth would have been back no matter if there are playoffs or not. Gauthier would feel Cunneyworth would not have been put in a easy situation even without a language war.

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02-09-2012, 11:40 AM
  #66
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I want him gone, but I'm afraid Timmins will be let go if another GM comes in. Unless Timmins himself becomes the new GM.
Nobody brought that up, but somehow I have that feeling too unfortunately. This is the reason that why Timmins is one of my top 3 candidate. With Jim Benning and Marc Bergevin. I also want Blair MacKasey in our organization with whoever of those 3 guys.

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02-09-2012, 11:40 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I'm always stunned with that kind of analysis. Oh wait, he got the 2 picks back....See, you have also the right to have MORE than 1 pick in a round and actually ADD to the picks you already have. And if you call those deals FANTASTIC, how do you call the Steve Kelly one from Boston? Incredibly awesomly marvelously impossibly great? A guy that played just the same kind of role Moore did and then, Boston paid off that 2nd rounder they gave by something like KEEPING THE GUY. Wizniewski did good yet we couldn't keep him due to money. Gauthier's choice, a good choice based on how much money he got. But the Moore trade? Because of what whooping money he was asking? It made no sense to get Moore for a 2nd rounder, but probably even less sense to let him go since he was a perfect fit for the team we had. Oh and don't tell me you are giving credit to Gauthier for the Fischer pick. I mean, this is where, at one point, an analysis like that make you think that whether things he did, he did great. When a guy is credited for letting Fischer go....

And again, I won't repeat enough, despite the question marks I had, Timmins is OUR GREATEST ASSET. And instead of letting him work his magic with 2 or 3 2nd rounders, we are satisfied 'cause we have replaced the picks we got rid of?
I think you mean Chris Kelly who had another year at 2.2M on his contract, but ya, PG did let Moore go, but he did sign Halpern for 700K or something around that to replace him, its not like he paid another asset to replace Moore.

Again this is all showing that PG isn't as bad as ppl make him seem, and if there is someone that Molson feels can do a better job I'm all for it, but I don't want to his him replaced just for the sake of it.

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02-09-2012, 11:43 AM
  #68
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Losing Timmins would be a disaster. I can only imagine if we had let him conduct the draft choices or kept the choice he made... we would have a good team now.

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02-09-2012, 11:46 AM
  #69
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02-09-2012, 11:47 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
I think you mean Chris Kelly, but ya, PG did let Moore go, but he did sign Halpern to replace him, its not like he paid another asset to replace Moore.

Again this is all showing that PG isn't as bad as ppl make him seem, and if there is someone that Molson feels can do a better job I'm all for it, but I don't want to his him replaced just for the sake of it.
Yeah Steve Kelly was once was a good prospect that never panned out. For Chris Kelly, well they could have traded him or could not have gotten him based on the contract but they knew he would have fit the system and it was worth despite being paid 1 million more than Moore. Yet, while replacing him with Halpern, Moore was a better player and more fitted for a Martin's system. We keep saying how speed is our game, yet you replace Moore by Halpern. Makes total sense.

Hey it's possible Gauthier stays. Everything is possible. I just don't see the logic behind it based on how this season went. How Molson seems to see things compared to Gauthier. I don't like Gauthier. I don't feel he is terrible but I don't feel he's good either. We can do better than this. We have to get out of this Gainey-Gauthier era.

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02-09-2012, 11:47 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Nobody brought that up, but somehow I have that feeling too unfortunately. This is the reason that why Timmins is one of my top 3 candidate. With Jim Benning and Marc Bergevin. I also want Blair MacKasey in our organization with whoever of those 3 guys.

Benning and MacKasey speaks french? Timmins somewhat speaks it, but Gainey looks like Moliere compared to him

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02-09-2012, 11:51 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Dekar View Post
Classic case of fans thinking they have any control over this team. Gauthier will be keeping his job, no question.
When the fans stop caring and showing up to games and the owner starts losing money he'll take notice very quickly.

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02-09-2012, 11:51 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
Well as we know as well rounded hockey fans. The stars have to be aligned perfectly for you to get said pick. And we both know you have NO gaurantee that said player will be an impact player. If we were to trade say a Pleks + for J Carter or Getzlaf and fill in one of the two things this team is missing. This is more of a gaurantee than hoping your star aligned pick turns into this superstar everyone here beleives will come out of the pick. What if he turns into Taylor Hall ( remember the hype? ).

I would rather aim for what we need through already proven NHL players is all.

Besides anything that T Marinaro or any other want to be media member believes. I always believe the opposite.
I never agree with Tony, never but it's this case he is 125% right. We ain't making the playoffs so let's take advantage of the situation

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02-09-2012, 11:53 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by bcv View Post
Benning and MacKasey speaks french? Timmins somewhat speaks it, but Gainey looks like Moliere compared to him
Benning doesn't and personnally, it shouldn't be a criteria for GM. Coach? It has to unfortunately for some and it will. But GM? For 2 or 3 press conferences? No need. And I value the job of a GM much more than a coach. MacKasey does with a heavy accent as far as I'm concerned, but again, not a concern for me.

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02-09-2012, 11:53 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Yeah Steve Kelly was once was a good prospect that never panned out. Yet, while replacing him with Halpern, Moore was a better player and more fitted for a Martin's system. We keep saying how speed is our game, yet you replace Moore by Halpern. Makes total sense.

Hey it's possible Gauthier stays. Everything is possible. I just don't see the logic behind it based on how this season went. How Molson seems to see things compared to Gauthier. I don't like Gauthier. I don't feel he is terrible but I don't feel he's good either. We can do better than this. We have to get out of this Gainey-Gauthier era.
I totally agree, and I think we'll find out what Molson does this summer, he slowly put his own ppl in place, replaced Bolvin with with Kevin Gilmore, and now he gets a reason to fire PG if he wants to put his own GM in place if he doesn't see PG as that person.

But I find myself kinda almost defending PG, not because I want him as GM, but ppl just seem a lot over exaggeration on his move, ex. ppl saying stuff like "I hope he is fired before he mortgages the future to save himself", when in none of his moves suggest he would do such a thing.

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