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Old
02-07-2012, 06:13 PM
  #176
gstommylee
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
It will have been $75 million in total. That could have actually gone some way towards paying of the arena debt, come to think of it. But I seriously wonder if the general public in Glendale even pays any attention to what city council is doing on the Coyotes file.
Does anyone pay attention to what any city council does with anything?

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02-07-2012, 07:32 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
Does anyone pay attention to what any city council does with anything?
I do.

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02-07-2012, 11:48 PM
  #178
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I do.
NOW i do, after seeing what these yoyos do!!

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02-08-2012, 07:16 AM
  #179
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It wasnt much of an issue in past years by-elections but ya, it could certainly become one leading up to this Augusts'. Thing is, either the Mayor carrys' the day along with her like minded colleagues in awarding the NHL yet another $25M in May (if in fact the league decides to hang-tight in Glendale) and just lets the chips fall where they may, possibly not even standing for re-election or if so, justifying it with the arguments theyve been making since Moyes declared BK. Scruggs hasnt declared her candidacy yet, nor have I read anything by any challengers with the exception of a guy who plans to run against Lieberman in the Cactus District for Council. His comments on the issues were actually pretty well thought out, open minded & flexible, reasonable. Wasnt demanding Phil or Mayor Scruggs be pilloried, looking for solutions.
Government debt will also ne on peoples' minds this election cycle.

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02-08-2012, 10:57 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
Does anyone pay attention to what any city council does with anything?
I knew more about glendale politics then i did my own towns politics



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02-08-2012, 11:31 AM
  #181
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I knew more about glendale politics then i did my own towns politics


That's sad!

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02-08-2012, 11:42 AM
  #182
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That's sad!
well i dont anymore, and yes it was very very sad.

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02-08-2012, 11:44 AM
  #183
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well i dont anymore, and yes it was very very sad.
Lol! It's always good to know how your tax dollars are being spent.

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02-08-2012, 12:01 PM
  #184
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Lol! It's always good to know how your tax dollars are being spent.
Which would likely make an individual very, very sad.

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02-08-2012, 12:05 PM
  #185
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Which would likely make an individual very, very sad.
Depending on the city, true

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02-08-2012, 12:10 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
Does anyone pay attention to what any city council does with anything?
Of course not. Its only when they monumentally mess up that anyone ever does. Voter apathy be it Glendale or Vancouver, Detroit or Dallas with polls drawing usually far less than 50% of the electorate.

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Originally Posted by OthmarAmmann View Post
Which would likely make an individual very, very sad.
... followed by anger, outrage, apoplexy, a coronary, reincarnation.
And again & again & again. What does it all mean Othmar?...

What does it matter, just gonna mess up regardless, why bother voting?...

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02-08-2012, 06:16 PM
  #187
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What does it matter, just gonna mess up regardless, why bother voting?...
It's not only the politicians who mess things up.

There's no IQ test before you vote, which might explain why Rob Ford is mayor of Toronto . . . and maybe why some of the dudes we've seen in Glendale hold public office as well.

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02-08-2012, 06:38 PM
  #188
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It's not only the politicians who mess things up. There's no IQ test before you vote, which might explain why Rob Ford is mayor of Toronto . . . and maybe why some of the dudes we've seen in Glendale hold public office as well.
Thats just it. Because apathy is so widespread, guys like Ford get elected in rallying the Knuckledraggers, Disenfranchised & Disgruntled, running almost un-opposed. As a former & Torontonian, that guy is just an embarrassment. As was Sam Sullivan and any other number of the civic Brainiacs, City Managers' & their ilk here in Vancouver. Hypocritical for me to be hard on the electorate in Glendale when my own backyards crawling with hundreds of millions of Zombie Deals gone bad. Bad Boy Mel Lastman was Mayor of North York for eons, winning Toronto handily despite his loose fly & mouth. Long tenure who like Elaine Scruggs' did much in fostering development in their respective communities. We just accept it, taking the good with the bad.

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02-08-2012, 07:06 PM
  #189
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Thats just it. Because apathy is so widespread, guys like Ford get elected in rallying the Knuckledraggers, Disenfranchised & Disgruntled, running almost un-opposed. As a former & Torontonian, that guy is just an embarrassment. As was Sam Sullivan and any other number of the civic Brainiacs, City Managers' & their ilk here in Vancouver. Hypocritical for me to be hard on the electorate in Glendale when my own backyards crawling with hundreds of millions of Zombie Deals gone bad. Bad Boy Mel Lastman was Mayor of North York for eons, winning Toronto handily despite his loose fly & mouth. Long tenure who like Elaine Scruggs' did much in fostering development in their respective communities. We just accept it, taking the good with the bad.
Say, how ARE those Olympic Village condos working out there I think you know what I'm referring too.... Heard some things here in Ontario about people who bought them (those that got bought) were not exactly....enamoured by the possible quality of the workmanship (and this is NOT a slam at Vancouver as a whole, but rather the Olympic Village construction, contractors et al )


As this pertains to Glendale, I am thinking that slowly more and more Glendale residents are starting to really look at things 75 million possible dollars later and starting to say "wait a minute here....". Scruggs may not run for re-election, but unfortunately I think she may just drop another 25 million dollars down to the NHL and after elections say "not my problem anymore"-which would be bad for Glendale. Really hoping that there is someone who is going to give Glendale residents some good news re buying the franchise, but those hopes seem to fade each day...

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02-08-2012, 08:00 PM
  #190
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Say, how ARE those Olympic Village condos working out there I think you know what I'm referring too.... Heard some things here in Ontario about people who bought them (those that got bought) were not exactly....enamoured by the possible quality of the workmanship (and this is NOT a slam at Vancouver as a whole, but rather the Olympic Village construction, contractors et al )
They were built fast which meant costs were high and quality was low, and as a result they aren't selling. Because they aren't selling many of the promised amenities haven't been built, which is deterring people even more. Why pay for expensive and poorly built condos when the surrounding area doesnrt even have the perks of downtown living?

Such are the problems when the public side takes all the early risk, similar to Camelback Ranch and Main Street down in Glendale IIRC. The 'Ranch' was built with public dollars, the rest were to come from the private side but they backed out when things weren't looking too rosy.

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02-09-2012, 09:44 AM
  #191
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They were built fast which meant costs were high and quality was low, and as a result they aren't selling. Because they aren't selling many of the promised amenities haven't been built, which is deterring people even more. Why pay for expensive and poorly built condos when the surrounding area doesnrt even have the perks of downtown living?

Such are the problems when the public side takes all the early risk, similar to Camelback Ranch and Main Street down in Glendale IIRC. The 'Ranch' was built with public dollars, the rest were to come from the private side but they backed out when things weren't looking too rosy.
Oh I agree, too much of a rush job. I know the media that I've seen were mentioning a number of people bought the Condos for a rather large amount, then discovered their values were actually a lot lower-really hurting their resale value. From what I understand its been a huge mess with talk of lawsuits ect. It's always bad when public is left holding the bag when private doesn't come through.

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02-09-2012, 10:47 AM
  #192
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Oh I agree, too much of a rush job. I know the media that I've seen were mentioning a number of people bought the Condos for a rather large amount, then discovered their values were actually a lot lower-really hurting their resale value. From what I understand its been a huge mess with talk of lawsuits ect. It's always bad when public is left holding the bag when private doesn't come through.
The situation here in Vancouver over the Athletes Village does in some respects parallel those in Glendale pursuant to a developer going bust, unable to complete on time & on-budget, much left unfinished. Meetings held in Executive Session (In-Camera as we Canucks call it) by the respective cities in approving massive bailouts/subsidies. Unable to sell at market rates though in Vancouvers case due to the "Green Construction" requirements mandated by the City in the first place that like a lot of new technology were beyond costly & wrought with building integrity & maintenance issues. Demanding Walden Pond on False Creek and winding up with a half a billion dollar boondoggle. A virtual Ghost Town like Westgate & Camelback. But hey, you can rent a 400sq ft unit for $1700 a month down there or buy a unit for $500K+++ if you dont mind water features in your bedroom/living room from the rain coming through the walls & windows...

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02-09-2012, 12:47 PM
  #193
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Of course not. Its only when they monumentally mess up that anyone ever does. Voter apathy be it Glendale or Vancouver, Detroit or Dallas with polls drawing usually far less than 50% of the electorate.



... followed by anger, outrage, apoplexy, a coronary, reincarnation.
And again & again & again. What does it all mean Othmar?...

What does it matter, just gonna mess up regardless, why bother voting?...
The difference in Glendale just now is that they have a rather roiled up GWI on their case, ready to take legal and PR action. Interestingly, Winnipeg had a fairly strong "public interest" lobby opposing huge public subsidies for the Jets back 15 years ago. But in that case the media was completely plugged in, and therefore the citizens. Everyone had a pretty clear understanding about what was going on, and what the stakes were. In the end, saner heads prevailed and the governments realized that the price was too high to keep an NHL franchise given the economic model and the lack of a suitable arena.

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02-09-2012, 01:02 PM
  #194
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http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...p-coyotes.html


Mod: headline: NHL Officials rule out fan ownership


Last edited by LadyStanley: 02-09-2012 at 04:39 PM.
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02-09-2012, 01:17 PM
  #195
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This **** is glorious.

It sounds like no one has any idea what anyone else is doing and they're just running out the clock.

Quote:
Glendale Mayor Elaine Scruggs said she learned about the reported third potential buyers group when Bettman commented publicly. She and other council members said this week they have received no information about the group.

"We have not heard a single word about this third group," Councilman Phil Lieberman said.
Quote:
Scruggs and Lieberman are among the council members who have said they would not vote to pledge another $25 million to the NHL to keep the team in Glendale.
Quote:
Scruggs said she's not sure where that $25 million will come from.

"I don't believe we can build a budget with $25 million because I don't think we have $25 million to set aside," she said. She has asked the city staffers to detail the cost of running the arena if the Coyotes left. Other council members ultimately voted not to proceed with such a plan given staffers' concerns that the discussion could hamper negotiations.
Quote:
Councilwoman Norma Alvarez said a Plan B should have been developed long ago and it may be too late now.
What a crazy mess.

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02-09-2012, 01:29 PM
  #196
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Glendale and NHL officials say the non-profit, public ownership model isn't a possibility in Glendale either. National Hockey League bylaws also prohibit such an arrangement, said Bill Daly, the league's deputy commissioner.
Yup - actually they would just limit the public ownership stake to a non controlling 49% - but it ain't gonna happen.

Seeing Greg Jamison's name again pinged something in my memory - given Chris Hansen/Seattle's current arena plans but not necessarily an owner and the assumption that Jamison's investment group was not Phx locals.

http://sharks.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=46543

Quote:
A native of the Pacific Northwest, Jamison earned a bachelor’s degree in education from Northwest Nazarene (Idaho) College and a master’s degree in administration from Colorado State University.

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02-09-2012, 01:36 PM
  #197
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"Councilwoman Joyce Clark requested that city staffers incorporate $25 million into the city budget to operate the arena, which must be managed whether the team stays or goes. Clark said she arrived at that figure given a lack of information about the costs of running the arena."

That is priceless. Clark led the effort to suppress the study that would have determined how much it cost. She created the lack of information about the costs that she is now using as an excuse. Plus, we have all seen documents from Glendale: the study could have been completed in as little as 4 weeks and at cost of roughly $60,000.

Corruption is never pretty but at least Glendale makes it amusing.

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02-09-2012, 01:39 PM
  #198
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This **** is glorious.

It sounds like no one has any idea what anyone else is doing and they're just running out the clock.









What a crazy mess.

Wait, what? Scruggs is among those who will say NO? I was under the impression that Scruggs and 3 of her "friends" would be enough to overrule a "no" vote-hence the earlier comments I posted about Scruggs and re-election....is that her position now, that she's going to vote no (which would give the majority to the no camp)?


I'm confused....I mean, more than usual

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02-09-2012, 01:48 PM
  #199
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Scruggs said she's not sure where that $25 million will come from.

"I don't believe we can build a budget with $25 million because I don't think we have $25 million to set aside," she said.

She has asked the city staffers to detail the cost of running the arena if the Coyotes left. Other council members ultimately voted not to proceed with such a plan given staffers' concerns that the discussion could hamper negotiations.
Someoen is gonna have to explain that one. Why would finding out the potential costs of operating the arena hamper negotiations?? How can they possibly not already know this when they pledged $25 million twice over after studies showed they'd be ruined if the Coyotes left.

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02-09-2012, 01:51 PM
  #200
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Quote:
Councilwoman Norma Alvarez said a Plan B should have been developed long ago...
You don't ****ing say.

Quote:
and it may be too late now.


So she doesn't even know what a 'Plan B' is but she's already speculating about whether its feasible anymore?

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