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Do yo still believe Brayden Schenn can be a top line center?

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Old
02-08-2012, 08:21 PM
  #26
RespectTheCouts
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Roo/Schenn/Couts down the middle, that future looks bright for Philly, I wouldn't trade neither Schenn or Couts unless it was for Weber and that's it, I'm more into the stand pat and let the team develop and deal with the D problems in the offseason when the front office has a better idea of Pronger will/can do, of course like any diehard I want to hope the Flyers will have a deep run in the playoffs this year, anything could happen but the experience alone will help out the rookies a ton, but I wouldn't be surprised with a first round exit, but hey you never know Bryz might be pulling a Briere and get hot in the playoffs!!!!

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02-09-2012, 10:36 AM
  #27
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Um, what?
thank god someone else caught that LOL..

Cooter is a very VERY complete player..moreso than JvR

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02-09-2012, 11:30 AM
  #28
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Haven't really seen much to say yes or no at this point. When he plays with confidence you can view him as a difference maker, but like all players consistency is the key.

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02-09-2012, 12:44 PM
  #29
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he has only played 34 career nhl games. its kinda hard to predict how good of a player he is going to be.

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02-09-2012, 02:00 PM
  #30
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He's going to be a great player in this league. Thats for sure.

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02-09-2012, 09:20 PM
  #31
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he's awesome. he's still a kid and he will be here when we win a cup. bryz will be 63 and in the last year of his contract

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02-09-2012, 09:53 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
he's awesome. he's still a kid and he will be here when we win a cup. bryz will be 63 and in the last year of his contract
And the Islanders will still have 5 more years of paying Yashin and DiPietro.

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02-09-2012, 10:00 PM
  #33
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he's awesome. he's still a kid and he will be here when we win a cup. bryz will be 63 and in the last year of his contract
I remember everyone saying that about Richards/Carter...

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02-09-2012, 10:10 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
I remember everyone saying that about Richards/Carter...
yea. they say that about everybody. sky's the limit. unless you suck and are overrated. you never know til you know, but it would suck to think he is gonna blow, right?

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02-09-2012, 10:12 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
I remember everyone saying that about Richards/Carter...
For what it's worth Schenn is a higher rated prospect then what both Carter and Richards were (I know it doesn't guarantee he will be better) and Richards and Carter would have won a cup if they weren't such head cases.

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02-09-2012, 10:14 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Tim Tebow View Post
For what it's worth Schenn is a higher rated prospect then what both Carter and Richards were (I know it doesn't guarantee he will be better) and Richards and Carter would have won a cup if they weren't such head cases.
That's a low blow to Richards. He was the Flyers heart and soul during the Cup run. Carter and Richards were both good players for us, but Homer was right when he said they just weren't going to bring us a Cup.

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02-09-2012, 10:19 PM
  #37
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OMG a goal he's the next captain

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Old
02-09-2012, 10:24 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
That's a low blow to Richards. He was the Flyers heart and soul during the Cup run. Carter and Richards were both good players for us, but Homer was right when he said they just weren't going to bring us a Cup.
Richards was great up until the ECF. Leighton gets most of the blame for the Flyers lowing to the Hawks but Richards was the worst forward we had that series. In 6 games he had 1 goal, 1 assist and was a -7. Carter also blew it with 6 games, 1 goal, 1 assist and was a -6.

Richards playing style was admirable but he was constantly called a superstar when in reality he was just a good #2 center. Very streaky, had amazing stretches and embarrassing stretches.

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02-09-2012, 10:29 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Tim Tebow View Post
Richards was great up until the ECF. Leighton gets most of the blame for the Flyers lowing to the Hawks but Richards was the worst forward we had that series. In 6 games he had 1 goal, 1 assist and was a -7. Carter also blew it with 6 games, 1 goal, 1 assist and was a -6.

Richards playing style was admirable but he was constantly called a superstar when in reality he was just a good #2 center. Very streaky, had amazing stretches and embarrassing stretches.
"Embarrassing" is a word I find ridiculous to use in reference to Richards. He lost his game when he tried to do too much.

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02-09-2012, 10:43 PM
  #40
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"Embarrassing" is a word I find ridiculous to use in reference to Richards. He lost his game when he tried to do too much.
I am talking about production. I said his playing style was "admirable." For the past few seasons his production was mediocre for a top player. If the word embarrassing is to much to handle I am just saying he had stretches were he was a very good player and stretches were he didn't play very good hockey. I don't think it was him trying to do to much I think he was just a streaky player. It's happening again in LA and he isn't the captain or the top line center there.

Plus if I agreed with you and he did lose his game when he tried to do to much wouldn't that just prove my original point of him being a headcase?

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02-09-2012, 10:51 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Tim Tebow View Post
Richards was great up until the ECF. Leighton gets most of the blame for the Flyers lowing to the Hawks but Richards was the worst forward we had that series. In 6 games he had 1 goal, 1 assist and was a -7. Carter also blew it with 6 games, 1 goal, 1 assist and was a -6.

Richards playing style was admirable but he was constantly called a superstar when in reality he was just a good #2 center. Very streaky, had amazing stretches and embarrassing stretches.
couldn't agree with that statement anymore, people really overvalued richards during his tenure here

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02-09-2012, 11:00 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Joey Mac View Post
couldn't agree with that statement anymore, people really overvalued richards during his tenure here
Richards was a 1st line center. I remember last year someone did some research and said a 1st line player averages 56 points or something like that. I believe they took every teams top line and did the averages?.. He was a top line center no doubt, and was a great pker and leader by example on the ice kind of guy.

Over the last 4 years(not including this years) he averaged 70.75 points per year. They are first line center stats

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02-09-2012, 11:40 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Richards was a 1st line center. I remember last year someone did some research and said a 1st line player averages 56 points or something like that. I believe they took every teams top line and did the averages?.. He was a top line center no doubt, and was a great pker and leader by example on the ice kind of guy.

Over the last 4 years(not including this years) he averaged 70.75 points per year. They are first line center stats
just giving my opinion on richards as a player, never thought he was worth all the hype he received

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02-09-2012, 11:43 PM
  #44
Tim Tebow
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Richards was a 1st line center. I remember last year someone did some research and said a 1st line player averages 56 points or something like that. I believe they took every teams top line and did the averages?.. He was a top line center no doubt, and was a great pker and leader by example on the ice kind of guy.

Over the last 4 years(not including this years) he averaged 70.75 points per year. They are first line center stats
I feel like that stat is wrong. An average of 56 points is freakishly low. With players who hit over 100 points that would mean you have to have 1st line players scoring like 30-40 points to average it out. That just doesn't make sense.

Plus when you talk about being a super star or even a 1st line player those things you mentioned mean nothing. Being good on the PK and leading by example... By these standards you can say someone like Dave Bolland is a few points away from being a #1 center.

Averages can also be a dangerous way to look at a player. Richards wasn't consistent he had a couple strong seasons then fell off. He played like a #1 center for 2 seasons. Richards is good for about 60 points his past 3 seasons. He is on pace for 48 points this year.

Just for fun though teams Richards would be a #1 center on...

Ducks - No (Getzlaf)
Bruins - No (Seguin)
Sabres - Yes (Roy)
Flames - No (Jokinen)
Hurricane - No (Staal)
Blackhawks - No (Toews)
Avalanche - Maybe (Stastny or Duchene)
Blue Jackets - Yes (Carter)
Stars - Maybe (Ribeiro)
Red Wings - No (Datsyuk)
Oilers - May have started as the #1 but would not have ended as the #1 (RNH or Gagner)
Panthers - Yes (Weiss)*Weiss is outplaying him though
Kings - No (Kopitar)
Wild - Maybe (Koivu)
Canadiens - Yes (Plekanec)
Predators - Yes (Fisher)
Devis - Yes (Zajac)
Islanders - No (Tavares)
Rangers - No (B. Richards)
Senators - No (Spezza)
Flyers - No (Giroux)
Coyotes - Yes (Langkow?)
Penguins - No (Crosby or Malkin)
Sharks - No (Thornton or Marleau)
Blues - Maybe (Oshie)*Oshie is outplaying him this year.
Lightning - No (Stamkos)
Leafs - Maybe (Grabovski)*Grab is outplaying Richards
Canucks - No (H. Sedin)
Capitals - No (Backstrom)
Jets - Yes (Antropov)

Some may have different opinions then me. Keep in mind some teams have 2 centers that would outrank Richards (I didn't mention all). And look at the stats of the players I put Richards over. Most of which are having seasons around 60 points.

Richards is the #2 center on the majority of the NHL's teams and the few he isn't the competition is posting around the same point totals in most cases

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02-09-2012, 11:56 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Tim Tebow View Post
I feel like that stat is wrong. An average of 56 points is freakishly low. With players who hit over 100 points that would mean you have to have 1st line players scoring like 30-40 points to average it out. That just doesn't make sense.

Plus when you talk about being a super star or even a 1st line player those things you mentioned mean nothing. Being good on the PK and leading by example... By these standards you can say someone like Dave Bolland is a few points away from being a #1 center.

Averages can also be a dangerous way to look at a player. Richards wasn't consistent he had a couple strong seasons then fell off. He played like a #1 center for 2 seasons. Richards is good for about 60 points his past 3 seasons. He is on pace for 48 points this year.

Just for fun though teams Richards would be a #1 center on...

Ducks - No (Getzlaf)
Bruins - No (Seguin)
Sabres - Yes (Roy)
Flames - Yes Jokinen is not a 1st line center anymore.
Hurricane - No (Staal)
Blackhawks - No (Toews)
Avalanche - yes He would be #1 and Stastny would be #2. I though Ducshene was playing wing?
Blue Jackets - Yes (Carter)
Stars - Yes.Richards over Ribeiro any day IMO
Red Wings - No (Datsyuk)
Oilers - Yes. Although I agree RNH would be giving him a run
Panthers - Yes (Weiss)*Weiss is outplaying him though
Kings - No (Kopitar)
Wild - Maybe (Koivu) Yes IMO
Canadiens - Yes (Plekanec)
Predators - Yes (Fisher)
Devis - Yes (Zajac)
Islanders - No (Tavares)
Rangers - No (B. Richards)
Senators - No (Spezza)
Flyers - No (Giroux)
Coyotes - Yes (Langkow?)
Penguins - No (Crosby or Malkin)
Sharks - No (Thornton or Marleau)
Blues - Yes. No doubt in my mind he would be #1 center there
Lightning - No (Stamkos)
Leafs -Yes. Grabs isn't even their first line center now.
Canucks - No (H. Sedin)
Capitals - No (Backstrom)
Jets - Yes (Antropov)

Some may have different opinions then me. Keep in mind some teams have 2 centers that would outrank Richards (I didn't mention all). And look at the stats of the players I put Richards over. Most of which are having seasons around 60 points.

Richards is the #2 center on the majority of the NHL's teams and the few he isn't the competition is posting around the same point totals in most cases
I was just repeating what I heard. I thought it seemed low to but didnt ever take the time to research it. I corrected the teams I believe Richards is a number one center on too (IMO of course). He is having a bad year but I still think he will rebound, maybe not this year but next, and become a 70-80 point player in his career like he has before.

With the teams I think he would be #1 o it comes to 15/30. Just my opinion but I respect you and the other guy who think he is just a number 2

There also is only one team I would think have two better centers than him on their roster. Pittsburgh and maybe Vancouver with kesler

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02-10-2012, 12:01 AM
  #46
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Schenn can be a top line forward. He does seem like Richards-lite. If he can start up on his offense and improve his defense to what is expected he will be a great two way forward. Only thing is is that we have Giroux so he would be our number 2 center, but I am sure he would be a number 1 center for another team in the future if he didn't play behind Giroux.

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02-10-2012, 12:45 AM
  #47
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Quote:
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couldn't agree with that statement anymore, people really overvalued richards during his tenure here
How come you changed your mind, so that you now agree with it?

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Old
02-10-2012, 12:47 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Mac View Post
couldn't agree with that statement anymore, people really overvalued richards during his tenure here
I think Carter was more overvalued. Richards ran out of gas in the SCF. He couldnt make it over the top. I remember Holmgren praising Richards but saying he needed to do more to not come up short in the future. I think he meant preparing himself more in the offseason with conditioning. Lavi stressed that as well telling everybody to come in to camp better conditioned since his system is dependent upon it. Second half is when the commitment pays off.

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Old
02-10-2012, 12:59 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I was just repeating what I heard. I thought it seemed low to but didnt ever take the time to research it. I corrected the teams I believe Richards is a number one center on too (IMO of course). He is having a bad year but I still think he will rebound, maybe not this year but next, and become a 70-80 point player in his career like he has before.

With the teams I think he would be #1 o it comes to 15/30. Just my opinion but I respect you and the other guy who think he is just a number 2

There also is only one team I would think have two better centers than him on their roster. Pittsburgh and maybe Vancouver with kesler
Olli Jokinen isn't having a bad year with 45 points in 54 games. He is on pace for more points then Richards had the past 2 years as a Flyer. Though I admit if Richards started the season as a Flame he would have been the #1. I am not convinced they would move Richards over Jokinen at the moment though.

As far as the others go. Guys like Stastny, Ribeiro, and Koivu go I can give you those simply because I feel Richards is more rounded but points wise they all can match Richards. Though Stastny is falling off a bit.

I was mistaken on Oshie I thought he was having a better season and Grabs I put simply because he is having a good season. 18 goals, on pace for 31 and 67 points which would be the same production Richards is around. Though I do think the Leafs would play Richards as #1 over him when I put thought into it.

Ether way with RNH he will be the #1 guy within a season or two.

The main point though is when you look at the stats of most of the centers Richards offensive output of about 65 points is far below the true stars numbers and right in the same ballpark as lesser respected talents like Ribeiro, Koivu, Grabovski. And technically this season Richards is only on pace for 48 points.

His effort was great, he is a good hockey player but he just wasn't as good as people hyped him up to be. 1st line players are 1st line players because of offensive numbers. Most of the hardest working best defensive players in the NHL are line 3 players who see limited ice time. On simple stats Richards is borderline line 1 and line 2 talent. Personally like I mentioned I feel he got overrated because he was streaky. He would have flashes of greatness but he could never maintain it. Kings fans are giving a similar reaction. He has been ice cold for a month but many are still supporting him because of how he started the season and that is really just a microcosm of his career. He will do something amazing then disappear. When Richards has won championships in the past at other levels he was never the player who carried the team he was always Robin to someone elses Batman. With Kitchner Derek Roy let that team offensively. Richards was tied in 2nd with Petr Kranko and he was tied for 4th in goals. The Phantoms championship though Richards only played 14 games that team was led by Jeff Carter and Patrick Sharp. Also had other strong efforts from Jon Sim MVP Antero Niittymaki. Then of course we all saw how jacked those team Canada's were. Richards has won a lot but he has never been "the man" or even the top center on any championship team. IMO if he ever wins again it will follow the same formula with Richards as the #2 center as a strong secondary scorer.

As far as teams with 2 better centers go... Ontop of Vancouver and Pittsburgh go I would also put San Jose (Thornton and Marleau), Tampa (Stamkos and Lecavalier*I know he is debatable but still think he is superior to Richards offensively), Detroit (Datsyuk and Zetterberg)

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02-10-2012, 07:50 AM
  #50
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What is it now?

4 goals in his last 7 games and big increases in ice time.

He's looking great for the moment.

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