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Which young guy have progressed under Dean?

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Old
02-10-2012, 01:52 AM
  #26
CNS
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Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
Stefan is a bust. Since you are comparing Lewis to Stefan, are you calling Lewis a bust?
I don't know really what Lewis was projected to be so no comment. But Stefan was picked 1st overall and didn't live up to anything near what he was projected.

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02-10-2012, 02:13 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by cnshockey View Post
I don't know really what Lewis was projected to be so no comment. But Stefan was picked 1st overall and didn't live up to anything near what he was projected.
Keep in mind, the Kings traded up to draft him. That was part of the Demitra for O'Sullivan trade.

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TREVOR LEWIS played in Des Moines of the USHL, scoring 35 goals and 40 assists in 56 games with 60 penalty minutes. The 6 1, 192 lb., right-shooter was born January 8, 1987 in Salt Lake City, Utah.

Central Scouting Report: Has excellent acceleration and quickness and can intimidate defensemen with his ability to change direction at top speed ... can shoot the puck on the fly, does not hesitate to pull the trigger every chance he gets ... has good puck skills and maneuvers very quickly in traffic ... a good passer ... scores big goals makes big plays and has been a go to guy for his coach playing in all game situations this season ... good on face-offs he is very effective when forechecking, forcing turnovers that create scoring opportunities ... comes to play with a lot of energy and grit takes the body well and stands up to a challenge ... plays a solid all-around game and comes back hard to cover his man and supports his defensemen down low in his own zone ... has very good poise, is a team player with good leadership qualities ... played on the USHL Viking Cup team in 2006 ... was selected to play in the 2006 USHL All-Star game ... was the recipient of three USHL awards, player and forward of the year, the Curt Hammer Award for Most Gentlemanly Player and he also was selected to the first all-star team 2006 ... will attend the University of Michigan in the fall of 2006.
I think it's safe to say they expected more from him than to be just an energy guy -- another Jeff Guiliano.

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02-10-2012, 02:47 AM
  #28
Scottkmlps
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Originally Posted by drugold View Post
Our forwards seemed better suited to our style of play. Doughty and Johnson like to take blueline slappers which need net presence to be effective. This season is no different. Doughty and Johnson are still taking the slappers but no one big and tough enough is there. Thats my take. Anyone agree?
Doughty and Johnson are doing fakes, be it head fakes or shot fakes, and when they actually do get a shot of it is either, wide, high, high and wide, or into the opposing teams shin pads. If anything, Mitchell, Scuderi and Greene are the ones getting the shots on net, when it should be the other way around.

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02-10-2012, 08:16 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals View Post
Lets see, your idea of progression is:

Lewis: a first round pick, turning into an energy guy who is on pace for single digit points at age 25

Richardson: A guy who is on pace for his third straight season of declining points. He had 27 two years ago, 19 last year, and is sitting at 5 this year. Hell, he had 22 points in his full rookie season in Colorado, but he's progressing just fine in our system

Loktionov: A offensive playmaker who has yet to score a goal and only has four points. Two years ago in only 19 games he had four goals and three assists, you know, before he got all crudded-up by Murray. Now, his so called "progression" that you rave about is stunted
LOL a year ago Lotkionov was playing with Kopitar....now he is playing with Richardson and Lewis,

You bring up Richardson's declining point totals, like he is the ONLY ONE in LA not scoring....

Really bud?

All three of them are just fine and doing exactly what their roles are right now...but hell, we all expect them to be 20 goal scorers, right?

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02-10-2012, 08:17 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
Keep in mind, the Kings traded up to draft him. That was part of the Demitra for O'Sullivan trade.



I think it's safe to say they expected more from him than to be just an energy guy -- another Jeff Guiliano.
They didn't trade UP to get him, they used the draft pick they got, huge difference their...

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02-10-2012, 08:57 AM
  #31
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Why is this? The system should help young players. Is it the players around them? I personally think that Dean has for 3 years preached that these young guys will carry the team and that he is not going to hurt the cap by adding impact guys in free agency. He's banked everything on the kids and in the process I feel he has set them backwards.
Chara picked Boston. The Rangers wanted Gaborik, and if the Rangers want you, they get you. Hossa picked a team that was in the conference finals without him, after two consecutive seasons losing in the finals with the Pens and Wings. Kovalchuk was never coming here, and wasn't going to stay here if the Kings had traded for him. Gomez and Drury(when everyone wanted them) went to the Rangers. Richards wanted to go, again, to the Rangers. Briere went to the Flyers.

It's not that Lombardi is not going to get them, it's that he can't. Look at the history of free agency around the league. The young guys have to carry the team because it's the only choice the Kings have. The Kings can trade for more established players, but then we see the crying about that.

Time to let go of the thinking, expecting, or hoping that some big name in free agency is going to be the answer. Parise isn't coming here either. He will have the choice of where he goes. That will never favor the Kings.

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02-10-2012, 02:33 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
They didn't trade UP to get him, they used the draft pick they got, huge difference their...
I was going by this: http://letsgokings.com/f11/kings_tra...aft-34617.html

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02-10-2012, 02:44 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
AMart
Richardson
AMart was solid last year. This year he has been terrible when he even cracks the line up. Richardson was considered a good, young player in Colorado and was traded for a second round draft pick. Here he is completely out of place and provides less and less each year. Now days, the only thing he really brings is speed, turnovers and failed finishes.

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02-10-2012, 02:52 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Brown, Kopitar, Quick, Voynov, Lotkionov, Richardson, Lewis, Martinez, Johnson, Doughty,

Yea, not many on the current roster have progressed.....
Brown has held steady or slightly tailed off on the things that set hima aprt. Kopitar has improved defensively, I'll give you that, but he could be so much more if he had the right guys or was used properly. Quick was an oversiite on my part. It's too early to tell on Voynov but he is not making the impact he started out. Lotkionvov has question marks all over but, again, it's too early to tell. I will say that with him, I guarantee that if he leaves he will be one of those stars elsewhere. Richardson and martinez has been discussed by me. Johnson is improving defensively slightly. Doughty has in no way improved. He's taken huge leaps backwards in all phases despite turning his season around a bit.

Somebody mentioned Bernier. He's one of those guys that is too early to tell, but he just hasn't shown the number one ability. He's terribly inconsistant and that is not good for a goalie.

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02-10-2012, 02:52 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by cnshockey View Post
At the time, he was. Was Patrick Stefan worthy of being drafted 1st overall? Drafting is a crapshoot. There's a reason you get Datsyuks and Lucs in late rounds and Stefans and Daigles in the first.
It's not supposed to be if you've got a great GM...

ESPECIALLY in the first frickin' round! (and a #4 overall) How would Couture or Gagner look on this team right about now?

Yes, it is (should be) that easy. The later rounds? Who's gonna pick on a GM for his 4th rd pick?

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02-10-2012, 02:55 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
It's not supposed to be if you've got a great GM...

ESPECIALLY in the first frickin' round! (and a #4 overall) How would Couture or Gagner look on this team right about now?

Yes, it is (should be) that easy. The later rounds? Who's gonna pick on a GM for his 4th rd pick?
Yes but look at the other picks he's had. Quick in the 3rd (think that was under him, right?), Voynov in the 2nd, Lokti in the 5th, Toffoli in the 2nd, Simmonds in the 2nd, Clifford in the 2nd. So basically, Dean sucks in 1st round and is great in 2nds

I agree that the Hickey pick was bad but he's not the only GM to make bad picks. Look at the Bruins with Zach Hamill. Drafted 8th overall in 07 and he's cleared waivers twice this year alone. If you look at his drafting as a whole and not just the bad picks, it has been pretty good.

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02-10-2012, 02:56 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by cnshockey View Post
I don't know really what Lewis was projected to be so no comment. But Stefan was picked 1st overall and didn't live up to anything near what he was projected.
Oh, I'll take a shot... hmm... mid-first round centerman... how about a SCORER?!

Ya got any of those hanging around Deano?

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02-10-2012, 02:58 PM
  #38
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Clifford, while we all love him has not developed. He is not the guy he was as a rookie, mostly because he's asked to do things he shouldn't have to do. That falls on Dean.

Simmonds had a good rookie season followed by a big regression last year. This year he is very good on another team.

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02-10-2012, 03:00 PM
  #39
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Lewis and Richardson just don't cut it for me. Never have and never will. I have higher expectations for bottom six non-goons than 3 and 5 points. That's what I expect Westgarth to put up, not those two. That Dean spent a first and a second round pick on those two guys is just bewildering to me.

I'm never going to lower my expectations to the point where I'm going to think those point totals and their play is acceptable.

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02-10-2012, 03:41 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by no name View Post
Clifford, while we all love him has not developed. He is not the guy he was as a rookie, mostly because he's asked to do things he shouldn't have to do. That falls on Dean.

Simmonds had a good rookie season followed by a big regression last year. This year he is very good on another team.
It seems that a lot of young players hit that sophomore slump. I still think that Clifford is going to become a very good player on this team, and hopefully one that can pitch in 20 goals a year

And personally I feel like clifford is being used correctly, as an energy guy who needs to chip in some points.

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02-10-2012, 03:56 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Scottkmlps View Post
Doughty and Johnson are doing fakes, be it head fakes or shot fakes, and when they actually do get a shot of it is either, wide, high, high and wide, or into the opposing teams shin pads. If anything, Mitchell, Scuderi and Greene are the ones getting the shots on net, when it should be the other way around.
Yup, too often DD and JJ seem to be going for the "perfect shot". Should take a cue from Voynov or Martinez who more often seem to be trying to get the puck through the scrum to the net.

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02-10-2012, 04:07 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
LOL a year ago Lotkionov was playing with Kopitar....now he is playing with Richardson and Lewis,

You bring up Richardson's declining point totals, like he is the ONLY ONE in LA not scoring....

Really bud?

All three of them are just fine and doing exactly what their roles are right now...but hell, we all expect them to be 20 goal scorers, right?
I don't care who Lokti is playing with, you can't tout his progression when he's a skilled player with four points.

As for Richardson, you say he's the only one not scoring, no kidding. The point is his production has declined several years and has declined to the point where he is a single digit point producer. You can't say he's progressing when everything shows that he's not.

They are not doing "exactly what their roles are now". A third line is expected to produce MUCH more then these guys are.

As for your repeated sarcastic and condescending comments just because many on here don't agree with you rosey outlook, it's grown thin

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02-12-2012, 01:41 PM
  #43
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Loktionov was a late-round gem. There is no reason to condemn that pick or to run him down. At his draft level it is very uncommon to even get close to the NHL.

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02-12-2012, 02:45 PM
  #44
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Loktionov was a late-round gem. There is no reason to condemn that pick or to run him down. At his draft level it is very uncommon to even get close to the NHL.
Nobody is condemning or running him down. He just has not developed, which is the topic here. In regards to late rounders making it to the NHL, every NHL team is littered with them.

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02-12-2012, 02:51 PM
  #45
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Nobody is condemning or running him down. He just has not developed, which is the topic here. In regards to late rounders making it to the NHL, every NHL team is littered with them.
Of course he has developed.....that's why he's skating a regular shift now unlike....guys ahead of him....Moller, Holloway...etc...

Cmon...really? Lotkionov hasn't developed....really?

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02-12-2012, 08:13 PM
  #46
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Nobody is condemning or running him down. He just has not developed, which is the topic here. In regards to late rounders making it to the NHL, every NHL team is littered with them.
I can't agree. Of course Loktionov has developed. He has come a long way from being a short and rather scrawny teenager and has bypassed practically all other Kings prospects without question. He's not here by default or accident.

He would definitely have quite a few more points right now if either of the guys he's had on the wings this season had any finish at all.

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02-12-2012, 08:32 PM
  #47
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Loktionov just needs to stand in the way of more shots.

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02-12-2012, 08:52 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Loktionov just needs to stand in the way of more shots.
You never know what will get a young player rolling.

At least he has been in the area a player must be in to score goals in the NHL.

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02-12-2012, 08:54 PM
  #49
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You never know what will get a young player rolling.

At least he has been in the area a player must be in to score goals in the NHL.
Yes he is. Wonder why Brown and Kopitar avoid it?

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02-12-2012, 08:58 PM
  #50
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Yes he is. Wonder why Brown and Kopitar avoid it?
The system of course..it whispers in their ear.....

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