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Ovechkin pulls ahead by 3 points

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Old
01-13-2006, 12:39 PM
  #126
Jaded-Fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothra
That is not what you just said though...I have no doubt that you didnt expect him to be this good this soon.....but This is what you said

"I would not expect an 18 year old player to be doing anything of note to be honest"

To me, "anything of note" is showing signs of what he is capable of here and there, having a few really good games now and then....getting a regular shift...that sort of thing. Are you saying you didnt expect at least that from him?

What he is doing now is dominating.....which is so far beyond "anything of note"....I just dont believe you didnt expect at least that

We do seem to argue over semantics a lot, don't we? And it blurs my central points with peripheral arguments. I will restate. I expected him to do well enough, definately playing this year and doing himself proud with his play, and better than nothing for sure. But in the context of the original question, if someone had told me before the season that Ovechkin would be dominating as he has been, which is pretty rare in itself too, and asked if Crosby would have kept up, I would have had to say in my wildest dreams maybe but hard to believe that he would do that when so many wunderkids coming into the league had not. It would be like calling him a Mario or Gretzky because those are the ones who come to mind who have done that before. The fact that he has kept up at that age is a story that does not get nearly the attention that it deserves. And is noteworthy. A hyped kid coming into the league, starting and doing alright is not.

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Old
01-13-2006, 01:20 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan
A hyped kid coming into the league, starting and doing alright
That's not exactly headline material, except on The Sydney Network.

Ovechkin has become a more interesting STORY (not player, or person).

What's really amazing to me is that the media hasn't been presenting it as a rookie RACE for the Calder. Constant attention to SC and AO in isolation is way less interesting than comparing frontrunners, challengers, surging latecomers, talented longshots, etc.

And the phenomenal crop of rookie defensemen is in real need of better profiling. Hockey journalism needs to become more creative and analytical, reflective, instead of leaving anything that smells of interpretation to the yahoos who fling opinions around in op/ed columns.

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Old
01-13-2006, 01:43 PM
  #128
Mothra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan
We do seem to argue over semantics a lot, don't we? And it blurs my central points with peripheral arguments. I will restate. I expected him to do well enough, definately playing this year and doing himself proud with his play, and better than nothing for sure. But in the context of the original question, if someone had told me before the season that Ovechkin would be dominating as he has been, which is pretty rare in itself too, and asked if Crosby would have kept up, I would have had to say in my wildest dreams maybe but hard to believe that he would do that when so many wunderkids coming into the league had not. It would be like calling him a Mario or Gretzky because those are the ones who come to mind who have done that before. The fact that he has kept up at that age is a story that does not get nearly the attention that it deserves. And is noteworthy. A hyped kid coming into the league, starting and doing alright is not.

Its not semantics at all....its you skewing things. 18 year old players do come into the league and are worthy of note....Crosby is not 17/18, he is 18....if he is 17/18 then AO is 19/20....which is actually more legit seeing how Ovechkin turned 20 in September.....you state that his age does not get "nearly the attention that it deserves"....but you have said many times that this so called hatred is simply jealousy. I dont think you can have it both ways.....how can people be so jealous on something that doesnt get enough "attention"?

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01-13-2006, 01:53 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pens1566
Crosby turned 18 in october.
your a crosby fan and u screwed up when he was born? he turned 18 in august

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Old
01-13-2006, 02:08 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PavelBure
your a crosby fan and u screwed up when he was born? he turned 18 in august
My bad. Lemieux's is Oct.

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Old
01-13-2006, 02:18 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothra
Its not semantics at all....its you skewing things. 18 year old players do come into the league and are worthy of note....Crosby is not 17/18, he is 18....if he is 17/18 then AO is 19/20....which is actually more legit seeing how Ovechkin turned 20 in September.....you state that his age does not get "nearly the attention that it deserves"....but you have said many times that this so called hatred is simply jealousy. I dont think you can have it both ways.....how can people be so jealous on something that doesnt get enough "attention"?

You are mixing issues all over the place. My past references to 'Jealousy' were because of how the lottery fell, which I contend was such a sore issue because EVERYONE had a chance so everyone had a stake. And it happened so recently still, less than half a year ago, to be fresh as far a dissapointment. But what in the world does that have to do with this issue? The point of my post, his accomplishments at this age being so rare, I still contend do not get enough attention. Your second issue that you introduced into this thread, that he was a hyped prospect that was coveted, hence the potential jealousy issue making some pre-judge the kid, was not part of the original point.

As for the 17/18 thing he was 17 just about the time he was drafted if not before (I forget the exact August draft date) and was only 1 month into his 18th year when he began his pro career. He would be not just 18 but one of the youngest 18 year olds to ever lace up in the NHL. I exaggerated to make that point with the 17/18 thing.

Just a straight up question: Is what Crosby is doing right now, at his age, extremely rare? And does it get much attention at all, how few have ever done what he is doing at age 18 in NHL history? That was the extent of my point in this thread.


Last edited by Jaded-Fan: 01-13-2006 at 02:59 PM.
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Old
01-13-2006, 03:25 PM
  #132
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Right now, I would vote for AO. But crosby has some important extra growing time which could take him over the top, or not.

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Old
01-13-2006, 04:13 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan

Just a straight up question: Is what Crosby is doing right now, at his age, extremely rare? And does it get much attention at all, how few have ever done what he is doing at age 18 in NHL history? That was the extent of my point in this thread.
I'm trying to think of players under 18 1/2 that have had an impact. Obviously Bergeron was that age 2 years ago. Most are not eligible to play at that age. I think Bobby Orr was 18 1/2 when the Bruins training camp started in 1966. He certainly had an impact winning the Calder that year (66/67).

What are the chances that Sid is at or near the top 10 in scoring come Feb 7? I doubt anyone's come close to that before.

Wayne came top 3 in WHA scoring prior to turning 18 1/2

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Old
01-13-2006, 04:47 PM
  #134
Mothra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan
As for the 17/18 thing he was 17 just about the time he was drafted if not before (I forget the exact August draft date) and was only 1 month into his 18th year when he began his pro career. He would be not just 18 but one of the youngest 18 year olds to ever lace up in the NHL. I exaggerated to make that point with the 17/18 thing.
Its just you say what he is doing as 17/18...etc...more impressive than AO at 20. The point of being more impressive is certainly debatable, and prolly more impressive at the younger age.....but....how is he 17/18 and AO not 19/20?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan
Just a straight up question: Is what Crosby is doing right now, at his age, extremely rare? And does it get much attention at all, how few have ever done what he is doing at age 18 in NHL history? That was the extent of my point in this thread.
I think it gets plenty of attention...hence, all the hype...his age, in my mind is part of why people are in awe. Your point might be what you are saying now...but what you said earlier, that you didnt expect him to do "anything of note" is hogwash....and its not what you have been saying since I questioned you on that specific quote

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Old
01-13-2006, 05:10 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothra
Its just you say what he is doing as 17/18...etc...more impressive than AO at 20. The point of being more impressive is certainly debatable, and prolly more impressive at the younger age.....but....how is he 17/18 and AO not 19/20?



I think it gets plenty of attention...hence, all the hype...his age, in my mind is part of why people are in awe. Your point might be what you are saying now...but what you said earlier, that you didnt expect him to do "anything of note" is hogwash....and its not what you have been saying since I questioned you on that specific quote
We are differing on the meaning of the phrase 'of note' I see. So be it. We seem to be on the same page now. Somewhat. I still disagree that many have made much note of what Crosby is doing at that age nor how historically rare that is. Again I can think of three off hand who I have actually seen play who have done anything else like it. I may be leaving someone out but I doubt it. That is note worthy and is not being noted. But keep on disagreeing with me . . . I kind of enjoy retyping that . . .

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Old
01-14-2006, 12:03 AM
  #136
Mothra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan
We are differing on the meaning of the phrase 'of note' I see. So be it. We seem to be on the same page now. Somewhat. I still disagree that many have made much note of what Crosby is doing at that age nor how historically rare that is. Again I can think of three off hand who I have actually seen play who have done anything else like it. I may be leaving someone out but I doubt it. That is note worthy and is not being noted. But keep on disagreeing with me . . . I kind of enjoy retyping that . . .

Not sure what you are saying....all I hear about SC is how he is the 18 year old "Next One"....what else would you like to see said? He is super duper young?

So your meaning of the phrase "of note" is doing something that, as you say, only 3 players have done? I would say thats far beyond "of note"......if he has, lets say...a 20 goal 60 point season, wouldnt that be worthy "of note"

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